LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 2 (merged)

[Keith_McClary]

Okay, let's bet! In 10 years no working device LENR/CANR/Cold fusion. Ounce of gold as a wager.

If you lose, you can just switch your E-Cat from Ni --> Cu mode to Pb --> Au mode.

[Alcassin]

Okay, let's bet! In 10 years no working device LENR/CANR/Cold fusion. Ounce of gold as a wager.

If you lose, you can just switch your E-Cat from Ni --> Cu mode to Pb --> Au mode.

Yeah, these guys are trying to show us philosopher's stone which produces energy by breaking laws of physics. I can bet on that fraud money, at least I'm putting my money where my mouth is. Is there any other sincere solution for these perpetuum mobile fanboys?

You can change Pb into some Au in fusion reactors, but I bet there is no fusion in the cold fusion device going, all this pseudoscience mumbo-jumbo in their books is only proving this. They are writing books about a non-existent working device but they do not present peer-reviewed papers (which would be less thicker than those lullabies). And in the end, of course, I'm the one who is not informed because I don't buy new age frauds.

What I did for the last several months was reading sources why it cannot work on theoretical level, not only why the device is a fraud (by the way it is shown it leaves an impression of scam). And the answer is known - the particles are stable at those energy levels, no fusion can apply, nothing fuses in that temperature. The problem is that the fraudsters are presenting steam and they do not address the theory and method at all. Widom-Larsen is bad science, at JREF there is one guy who, as a nuclear physicist read through all the cold fusion papers to say it's just a bad science. He's reasoning was quite clear, and even a non-professional (with at least some education in physics) can understand. And there is no blinding jargon in words like "superheated steam"...
Technobabble is one of the marks of a con-man.

For me, the proposed instability of molecules in low temperatures would mean that it would be quite common, observable phenomenon - in volcanoes for example, but in case of Rossi - even in your kitchen in electric kettle, al you need is some nickel. The device doesn't need any "unobtainium" and should work if it could. It doesn't but they are stressing not the theory and method but change topic into "nanorobotic factory" or "third party test by independently made instruments" or "dry steam".

They never really address the questions of nuclear physicists, mainly because all the phenomena are being misinterpreted by cold fusionists - like wavefunctions, velocity, energy levels and lattice. In the known realm of nature nothing can happen there. This leads me to highly skeptical attitude.

Well, the only way to go on that topic is learning physics. You can download textbooks on it, and they easily can help in obtaining the usable knowledge and understanding of the subject. If I were Carlhole I would start to read "Fundamentals in nuclear physics" and then I would go into other academic papers and textbooks, then I would exchange correspondence with some people who tried to build cold fusion device in 90s within academia about obstacles, and so on. Just to report it from the objective standpoint. But Carl is an Amway guy

[EnergyUnlimited]

Okay, let's bet! In 10 years no working device LENR/CANR/Cold fusion. Ounce of gold as a wager.

If you lose, you can just switch your E-Cat from Ni --> Cu mode to Pb --> Au mode.

There should be handy rotary switch on the device control panel to facilitate that.
The type of switch, which we can find in multimeter for example.
For best performances there should be 2 rotary switches.
First one would be selecting starting element and second one a product.

Nuclear physics made simple.
With water, nickel, diode rectifier for axillary power supply and a 2 rotary switches.
All that for $199 while stocks last.
Hurry!!!!

[Rune]

If I were Carlhole I would start to read "Fundamentals in nuclear physics"

No doubt you have the same advice for all the PhD physicists and researchers who have authored these many papers.

LENR-CANR.org

All these scientific papers in support of LENR/Cold Fusion are free and available for download at the link.

[Rune]

There must be a hundred. And the eggheads who wrote them didn't spend years posting on intenet forums to get where they are in their mastery of scientific concepts.

It's only on sites like this where the groupthink runs rampant that anonymous, hardly qualified internet trolls place themsleves above people who have actually achieved something important, valuable and difficult so as to benefit the rest of us morons with the fruits of their thoughts and labors. Thank goodness we have the scientific method.

A Primer for Electro-Weak Induced Low Energy Nuclear Reactions
Y.N. Srivastava, Dipartimento di Fisica & INFN, Universita‘degli Studi di Perugia, 06123 Perugia, Italy
A. Widom, Physics Department, Northeastern University, Boston MA 02115, U.S.A
L. Larsen, Lattice Energy LLC, 175 North Harbor Drive, Chicago IL 60601, U.S.A.

In a series of papers, cited in the main body of the paper below, detailed calculations have been presented which show that electromagnetic and weak interactions can induce low energy nuclear reactions to occur with observable rates for a variety of processes. A common element in all these applications is that the electromagnetic energy stored in many relatively slow moving electrons can -under appropriate circumstances- be collectively transferred into fewer, much faster electrons with energies sufficient for the latter to combine with protons (or deuterons, if present) to produce neutrons via weak interactions. The produced neutrons can then initiate low energy nuclear reactions through further nuclear transmutations. The aim of this paper is to extend and enlarge upon various examples analyzed previously, present simplified order of magnitude estimates for each and to illuminate a common unifying theme amongst all of them.

6. SUMMARY AND CONCLUDING REMARKS
We may summarize by saying that three seemingly diverse physical phenomena viz., metallic hydride cells, exploding wires and the solar corona do have a unifying theme. Under appropriate conditions which we have now well delineated, in all these processes electromagnetic energy gets collectively harnessed to provide enough kinetic energy to a certain fraction of the electrons to combine with protons (or any other ions present) and produce neutrons through weak interactions. The produced neutrons then combine with other nuclei to induce low energy nuclear reactions and transmutations. Lest it escape notice let us remind the reader that all three interactions of the standard model (electromagnetic, weak and nuclear) are essential for an understanding of these phenomena.

Collective effects, but no new physics for the acceleration of electrons beyond the Standard Model needs to be invoked. However, we have seen that certain paradigm shifts are necessary. On the surface of a metallic hydride cell with surface plasmon polariton modes, protons collectively oscillate along with the electrons. Hence, the Born-Oppenheimer approximation (which assumes that the proton is rigidly fixed) breaks down and should not be employed. Similarly, in the solar corona, the electronic density and the electrical conductivity are sufficiently low. Hence there is not much charge screening of the electric fields involved. Strong electric fields generated by time-dependent magnetic fields through Farday’s laws are sustained in the corona and the betatron (or transformer) mechanism remains functional. Were it not so, electrons and protons could not have been accelerated to hundreds of GeV’s and there would have been no production of high energy muons, certainly not copious enough to have reached Earth in sufficient numbers to have been observed by the L3+C collaboration at LEP[23] or by the BAKSAN underground laboratory[44]. We are unaware of any other alternative scheme for obtaining this result.

The betatron mechanism also naturally explains a variety of observed experimental results such as unexpected nuclear transmutations and high energy cosmic rays from the exterior of the sun or any other astronomical object endowed with strong enough magnetic activity such as active galactic nuclei.

The analysis presented in this paper leads us to conclude that realistic possibilities exist for designing LENR devices capable of producing “green energy”, that is production of excess heat at low cost without lethal nuclear waste, dangerous gamma rays or unwanted neutrons. The necessary tools and the essential theoretical now-how to manufacture such devices appear to be well within the reach of presently available technology. Vigorous efforts must now be made to develop such devices whose functionality requires all three interactions of the Standard Model acting in concert.

ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS
Over the past few years, various phases of this work have been presented by us in seminars and lectures at the Universities of Milan, Perugia, Rome I & III; Olivetti Research Center in Milan; INFN Italian National Laboratory at Frascati; Inter University Accelerator Center in New Delhi, India and various US government departments and agencies in Washington DC USA. We take this opportunity to thank our colleagues for inviting us to their institutions and for many interesting and useful discussions.

Yeah, tell these guys to read "Fundamentals of Nuclear Physics". What a useful suggestion.

Tell it to NASA too since high-level researchers at the Langley research Center there favor this theory. It's the reigning king of a dozen or more LENR theories at the moment. Everyone positing a theory is well aware of the excess heat phenomenon because it is observable and measurable. Many of the scientific papers at the LENR-CANR.org link deal with accuracy of measurement and the discernment of probable multiple quantum mechanisms for the production this excess heat.

[EnergyUnlimited]

Tell it to NASA too since high-level researchers at the Langley research Center there favor this theory. It's the reigning king of a dozen or more LENR theories at the moment. Everyone positing a theory is well aware of the excess heat phenomenon because it is observable and measurable. Many of the scientific papers at the LENR-CANR.org link deal with accuracy of measurement and the discernment of probable multiple quantum mechanisms for the production this excess heat.

Poor NASA... Are they following a footsteps of Trofim Lysenko?

They cannot lift an astronaut a** beyond an immediate Earth gravity any more, so some new (and cheaper...) frontiers are to be exploited...

[Rune]

Poor NASA... Are they following a footsteps of Trofim Lysenko?

Yeah, NASA should read "Fundamentals of Nuclear Physics".

[Rune]

The Peak Oil Crisis: The Quantum Fusion Hypothesis by Tom Whipple

...Fortunately however, a few scientists kept plugging away on just how one could get heat from the nucleus of a hydrogen atom. Now their efforts seem to be paying off. In recent months numerous respected scientists have been reporting at scientific gatherings that they are seeing increasing amounts of heat, which can only be coming from nuclear reactions, during experiments with hydrogen loaded into nickel and palladium under the proper conditions.

There have been so many of these reports by reliable and respected scientists that it has become absurd to claim that the phenomenon is fraudulent or that all these scientists are mistaken in their observations. Currently there are at least six different organizations around the world saying they have a commercially useful heat-producing device under development which they will be demonstrating soon.

What seems to be happening in this new kind of fusion is that when hydrogen is "loaded" into nickel or palladium and subjected to the proper kind of an electromagnetic pulse, the hydrogen nucleus which is a positively charged proton acquires and electron which turns it into a low energy free neutron. Now a low energy free neutron is something very nice to have for it quickly combines with other protons to form deuterium, tritium and finally quadrium. The quadrium only lasts for an instant before undergoing a process called beta decay turning it into helium. This is where Einstein and E = MC2 comes in. The beta decay of quadrium results in a loss of mass which is turned into heat. If all this pans out as claimed, it could be one of the most important secrets of nature that has ever been discovered, for our energy problems are over.

Yeah, Tom Whipple should read "Fundamentals of Nuclear Physics" too.

[Rune]

Defkalion posts advertisements for 20 job openings

Greek low energy nuclear reaction pioneer Defkalion Green Technologies is advertising for twenty new positions. The job openings have been posted on the company’s website and were sent to some LENR media outlets.

This seems to indicate that Defkalion feels competent enough to go ahead with development and manufacture of its Hyperion LENR heating device. Defkalion is developing Hyperion as a home heating and water heating system. They also have plans to license their technology to other companies. Uses would include industrial applications and at some point in the future generation of electricity.

Recent reports indicate that Defkalion will unveil a prototype in July and market LENR units in Europe at some point in the near future. The company is trying to get certification from the European Union so it can sell its products for home use.

The job postings also seem to indicate that Defkalion is ready to build a robotic factory to produce its units. The factory and the jobs would be located at the company’s facilities in Xianthi in Northern Greece where it is performing LENR tests.

Positions that Defkalion is working for include:

One robotics engineer
One project manager
Two training engineers
Two product development specialist
One design engineer
Three mechanical engineers
Two development engineers
Two electrical engineers
One systems engineer
Two application engineers
One chemical engineer
Two laboratory measurement operators
One information and network engineer

Persons interested in working at Defkalion can email their resume to hr@defkalion-energy.com

Still no results from independent testing that supposedly is still going on.

[SeaGypsy]

It's going to revolutionize marine engine tech. Seems like an open boiler/ continuous scrub/ pressure wash should power up a seawater steam jet engine at 500c pretty good?

[Keith_McClary]

LENR-CANR.org
All these scientific papers in support of LENR/Cold Fusion are free and available for download at the link.

Someone else wrote that.

There must be a hundred. And the eggheads who wrote them didn't spend years posting on intenet forums to get where they are in their mastery of scientific concepts.

Hundreds, actually, over a quarter century.

The physics literature is full of far-out speculative theories by PhD eggheads.

If your roof is splattered with pig poop they will come up with a theory to explain it.

[Rune]

If your roof is splattered with pig poop they will come up with a theory to explain it.

You, on the other hand, would leave the observed phenomena unexplained? Figures.

[Ferretlover]

Text deleted.

[EnergyUnlimited]

Yeah, NASA should read "Fundamentals of Nuclear Physics".

Very much like Trofim Lysenko should read basis of genetics.

So yes, many scientists of NASA actually should do it and many others should stop defrauding taxpayer money on projects which are in their opinion not going to work, but nevertheless are pursued.

Few years from now on and NASA will lag far behind Russians and Chinese. We are observing accelerating loss of capacity there...

[Alcassin]

If your roof is splattered with pig poop they will come up with a theory to explain it.

You, on the other hand, would leave the observed phenomena unexplained? Figures.

What are you talking about? There are no observed phenomena, there are never verified claims that there is anything. In early 90s they tried hard in the US to see the "observed phenomena" claimed by Pons and Fleischmann, nothing above basic physics has been observed. Fair enough for a kettle plugged to an outlet.

All these claims are exaggerated, just like Huizenga called his book "Cold fusion: the scientific fiasco of the century". Huizenga was on Cold Fusion panel in DoE, at least cold fusion didn't get state funding.

I think Focardi, Widom, Larsen, Rossi, Defkalion, McKubre, Miley and other crooks should go back to school. And you Carl should follow and at least try to read proper literature on the subject. Instead going into "coldfusionnow" you should start reading Journal of Irreproducible Results. Cold fusion has been welcomed there

[vision-master]

Sounds like you are speaking from a script? I see lot's of negative emotional language used. Are you an academic by chance?

[Rune]

I think Focardi, Widom, Larsen, Rossi, Defkalion, McKubre, Miley and other crooks should go back to school.

You forgot the University of Missouri. It needs to read Huizenga's book too.

MU research chief wants 'cold fusion' puzzle solved

Rather than squabbling over the merits of studying cold fusion or jumping to the conclusion that excess heat produced at room temperature is a nuclear reaction, the scientific community needs to back up — all the way to the top of the scientific method.

That’s the opinion of Rob Duncan, vice chancellor of research at the University of Missouri. He is in the early stages of pitching a plan to establish a national research program that would help scientists study tabletop energy.

Scientists for years have been using different methodologies to create excess heat in the lab without using a lot of energy. Once dubbed “cold fusion” and famously observed in the 1980s by Utah researchers Martin Fleischmann and Stanley Pons, some now refer to the process as a low-energy nuclear reaction, or LENR.

LENR research has the potential to solve climate and energy problems, Dennis Bushnell, chief scientist of NASA’s Langley Research Center, said in a June interview with EV World, a sustainability publication.

Before it can be labeled, though, scientists need a better understanding of it, Duncan said.

“The biggest problem in this whole area is that everyone is trying to say what the origin of effect is,” he said. “What we’ve got are different camps convinced it’s either fusion or LENR or some type of new enhanced chemical effect. We just don’t have an understanding in the physics yet. … We need to slow down and do careful scientific inquiry.”

So does the Defense Industry:

“Over 2 decades with over 100 experiments worldwide indicate LENR is real, much greater than chemical…” –Dennis M. Bushnell, Chief Scientist, NASA Langley Research Center

Low Energy Nuclear Reaction (LENR) using nickel and hydrogen is a clean, very very cheap, and super abundant new energy technology. It would be fair to say that it is the silver bullet for our current continual energy crisis – and as a consequence sounds too good to be true.

In November of 2009 the US Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) published Defense Analysis Report DIA 8-0911-003 titled “Technological Forecast: Worldwide Research on Low-Energy Nuclear Reactions Increasing and Gaining Acceptance” ( http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Barnha ... nology.pdf ).

Oh, if only the defense industry would read PO.com!

[Ferretlover]

So should Tom Whipple: The Peak Oil Crisis: The Quantum Fusion Hypothesis by Tom Whipple

In recent months numerous respected scientists have been reporting at scientific gatherings that they are seeing increasing amounts of heat, which can only be coming from nuclear reactions, during experiments with hydrogen loaded into nickel and palladium under the proper conditions.
There have been so many of these reports by reliable and respected scientists that it has become absurd to claim that the phenomenon is fraudulent or that all these scientists are mistaken in their observations.

Of course, believing absurd things is nothing new Text deleted.

[diemos]

Outstanding!

Wake me when I can buy one at home depot.

Wake me when there is even a single end user in the world willing to take a camera crew down to the basement and show me their cold fusion generator.

Wake me when one of these people hands a unit over for independent testing and it runs for more than 6 hours.

Wake me when one of these entrepreneurs has the idea to hook one of their gizmos to the grid and get paid for their free energy.

[Ferretlover]

Wake yourself up. It's a chore to rouse Text deletd..