LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 2 (merged)

[Alcassin]

OilPrice.com

New LENR Machine is the Best Yet

The new leader is Brillouin Energy with a new process named the Hot Tube Boiler.

What puts Brillion out in front first is the temperature output. Brillouin expects the test of the new Hot Tube model at SRI will be capable of delivering steam at temperatures from 400ºC to 500ºC (750-932ºF). These kinds of temperatures are called superheated or deliver “dry steam”, a steam form that does not contain water mechanically suspended. Dry steam is what’s needed for generating power and moving heat because it saves a great deal of water and is more efficient. Pressures, especially for turbine drives can be much higher.

This one produces steam at 100ºC, works exactly the same as E-Cat.

And here we have an upgrade. Producing superheated steam:



The first was discovered few thousand years ago, hard to call it an innovation.
The second is known for some centuries. Superheated steam has improved the efficiency of steam engines but needs higher energy input. It's an improvement to James Watt device. And as we know they need energy and it comes in form of electrical energy from the outlet.

Wooo, what a device! Producing steam by taking energy from the outlet! Nobody can do that.
Crackpots and nuts at PESN are going to love it. Sterling D. Allan is feeding himself from the lunacy of his "clients" presenting all kinds of perpetuum mobile to them. And he is a CT believer in "free energy suppresion", like laws of thermodynamics are the suppression.

Nope, he is a crook, a liar, and a nut.

[vision-master]

What the heck are you talking about.......... (in circles)

You can do better than post a pic of a tea pot - must be a limey........ lsol

[Ferretlover]

What the heck are you talking about.......... (in circles)

You can do better than post a pic of a tea pot - must be a limey........ lsol

Alcassin has got his knickers all in a bunch again because he doesn't want anyone to follow developments in LENR on PO.com - even though it is energy related and being widely followed with high interest, including by people such as Tom Whipple, a long-time prominent peak oil commentator. Must be positively infuriating for poor old Al.

He would prefer it if Rossi were the only player in this first-to-market game because Rossi is eccentric and secretive and more easily dismissed than the others. But the fact is, there are now THREE (supposed) LENR "scams" operating and looking to commercialize: Rossi, Defkalion, and Brillioun. Several more "scams" are afoot as well such as Piantelli's NichEnergy, Larsen's Lattice Energy, and George Miley's company.

All of this is very interesting and worth following in a thread - of course!

Text deleted.

[Cog]

I was talking about the Rossi factory. The one that he claimed is up and operating in the USA. Since you are following the story I figured you would be the man to talk to about the physical address. I'm frankly disappointed since you are following the story that you can't give me the address that Rossi claims is pumping out thousands of E-Cats.

I want to visit it and talk to Rossi about investing in his ground-breaking free-energy machine. Without an address, I'm sort of lost here.

Please don't hold out on me Carhole. There is money to be made here and I want in on the bottom floor.

Now of course if you have inside information that there is no information, then as a follower of the story, you need to inform us of that fact so we can pursue some other free energy scheme.

[Rune]

I was talking about the Rossi factory. The one that he claimed is up and operating in the USA. Since you are following the story I figured you would be the man to talk to about the physical address. I'm frankly disappointed since you are following the story that you can't give me the address that Rossi claims is pumping out thousands of E-Cats.

According to Rossi, the factories themselves are being produced. No "thousands of E-Cats" are being produced as of yet. He has not given out any address information.

Defkalion HAS given out address information but, AFAIK, only to visitors such as Sterling Allen. Also AFAIK, there is no internet-published info as to the addresses of the factories in Xanthis, Greece.

The reason we follow this story is because it is highly interesting yet not many of the details are known. They emerge as the story develops and that's why we follow it in this thread.

How many times do you have to be told this?

[SeaGypsy]

Because it's in the same category as 'Alien abduction' and ET communication. There is no real evidence to back up what these kooks are saying. Demand evidence, get lumped with the 'conspiracy against free energy'.

[vision-master]

Defkalion July 2012...........

[Rune]

Because it's in the same category as 'Alien abduction'

There is WAY, WAY, WAY too much high-level academic interest; WAY too much experimental evidence produced by researchers around the world for that. Even the Defense Industry has published information stating that LENR is real and could very well change the world.

Missouri University Weekly

Nuclear researchers attempt to locate new source of renewable energy

Not long ago, the idea that a scientist could generate energy using little more than a beaker of water, a bit of metal and some electricity was met with widespread skepticism.

Today, so-called low-energy nuclear reactions, or LENR, are being recorded in laboratories around the world. Scientists from the Naval Research Laboratory, the National Energy Laboratory of Italy, as well as research teams in France, Japan and Israel have all observed the phenomenon — a wallop of heat when electricity is applied to palladium, nickel or platinum submerged in deuterium-enriched water.

Many scientists are convinced that a new source of clean, cheap renewable energy is within reach. But the experiments to generate the heat don’t always work, and when they do, experts can’t agree why.

MU researchers are trying to understand the physical science behind the heat effect. Last February their research received a monetary boost via a $5.5 million gift from philanthropist Sidney Kimmel.

... ...

Harnessing heat reaction

Figuring out why anomalous heat is generated is only one piece of the puzzle, said David Robertson, professor of chemistry and associate director of research at the Reactor. Scientists need to nail down the specific conditions under which the heat effect can be repeated.

Right now, the success rate is roughly 20 percent, according to Robertson. That means that four of five experiments fail to generate the heat. Identifying and correcting those mistakes could uncover the secrets that lead to an alternative form of energy.

“Quite frankly, our technology has gotten to the point where, if we can reproduce the excess heat effect and we know what’s going on, we know how to harness it,” Robertson said. “That’s not the hard part.”

[Alcassin]

Because it's in the same category as 'Alien abduction' and ET communication. There is no real evidence to back up what these kooks are saying. Demand evidence, get lumped with the 'conspiracy against free energy'.

I love the steam measuring in that fraud. It's a funny reccuring theme
I have devices which make steam, I think I should inform Sterling D. Allan on that subject.

Oh Carl, anyway, there is tougher competition in perpetuum mobile construction (look at PESN). Do you think they are close to finish and market the product?

Really, all cold fusion papers are just bad science. No energy production in few years, several years, centuries or millenia there, no matter what these guys are talking about. We measured quite well the particles and the laws of physics are known even on that level. What they are proposing is really funny the more I read about it.

And really I would call my garage "a laboratory", my delusion of grandeur isn't that high. And I know what competition is, even in science. I know what pseudoscience is and I know how to sniff a scam. They have few problems they won't ever overcome, just like orgonomy or dianetics, UFOs - no verified hypothesis, and claims are huge.

The problem is that they cannot measure any nuclear reaction because it isn't there. Energy levels of those molecules are known, wavefunctions are known, Coloumb barrier is known, everything there is known. Under conditions which they claim nothing can happen on molecular level. That's why these perpetuum mobile guys try to create "new physics". It's a scam. But really funny.

Pons and Fleischmann showed an electric kettle. Rossi showed an electric kettle, and everyone talking about steam will give us a kettle. Period. They could measure heat produced easily by calorimetry. They just can't, because it would mean they have kettle, and these demonstrations showed by far are convincigly good at presenting us a kettle with few meters of hose.

Here is an advertisement: Electric kettle - providing free energy since 1922.

[Rune]

Athanor: Open Source LENR Steps Forward

Italian high school teacher and engineer Ugo Abundo has released detailed plans thru the Italian blog 22Passi on how to build an LENR reactor like the one designed, built, tested and patented by himself and a group of professors and students at the Leopoldo Pirelli High School in Rome. The reactor is an electrolytic cell much in the tradition of the one first built by Dr. Martin Fleishmann and Dr. Stanley Pons at the University of Utah in 1989. However, modifications have been made and the current device most closely resembles a Ohmori-Mizuno cell, an early test cell built by 2 Japanese researchers with those respective surnames. The cell has been further modified by Eng. Abundo and his group to include a proprietary cathode that serves as the “heart” of the unit. This cathode has been patented. However, accordingly to Eng. Abundo, the purpose of this patent is not to protect intellectual property rights per se, but more to ensure that no one else patents this device and subsequently attempts to prevent others from replicating it.

Reportedly the Athanor cell produces energy at a coefficient of performance (COP) of 4, or 400% over the input energy. By comparison, Andrea Rossi’s e-Cat reportedly has a COP of 6 and the device of rival Defkalion, the Hyperion, has a COP of 20. But, rest assured, the goal of the Pirelli HS Group is not to compete with Rossi or Defkalion, but to widely disseminate this technology in hopes of definitively providing proof of principal to a skeptical world.

It may be download and/or opened by clicking here.

If these devices are really what Defkalion and Brillioun and Rossi claim, I can't see how they won't be replicated and disseminated widely. They are not complex devices, by all indications. The science behind them may not be understood, it may be difficult, but the actual construction of these things doesn't look complicated much at all.

I suppose everyone will now chime in that Pirelli Industrial High School is perpetrating yet another scam.

[Rune]

Athanor: Open Source LENR Steps Forward

Vortex

>> This is the sort of experiment that most chemistry labs could probably
>> replicate with very little cost in a few days, and I imagine many will try.
>>
>
> It took Mizuno months of practice to make this work. He went through
> hundreds of cathodes. Even after that it was difficult for him. Perhaps
> this new technique is easier. I hope so.
>
> As I noted, Mizuno's experiment exploded violently, producing far more
> energy than can be explained from the input power. All of the gas before
> the explosion was vented, so there was no chemical fuel available. The
> experiment came close to seriously injuring Mizuno, driving a large piece
> of glass into his neck next to the carotid artery. There was another person
> present. Both Mizuno and this person were deafened by the sound for several
> hours. The University ordered him to stop doing the experiment after that.
> He never did it again.
>
> See the photos and report here:
>
> http://lenr-canr.org/?page_id=187#PhotosAccidents
>
> - Jed

[Rune]

More on this explosive LENR event courtesy Jed Rothwell posting at Vortex.

Anomalous energy generation during conventional electrolysis
by Tadahiko Mizuno and Yu Toriyabe: Department of Engineering, Hokkaido University (2005)

We experienced an explosive energy release during a conventional electrolysis experiment. The cell was a 1000 cc Pyrex glass vessel that has been in use for 5 years. It contained 700 cc of 0.2 M K2CO3 electrolyte; a platinum mesh anode; and
a tungsten cathode wire 1.5 mm in diameter, 29 cm long, with 3 cm exposed to the electrolyte. The estimated heat out
was 800 times higher than input power, based on the data recorded up to the moment of the event. There were many elements deposited on the electrode surface. The major elements were Ca and S and the total mol was roughly estimated as 10-6.

[SeaGypsy]

IF this is true, "Elements deposited on the electrode" is not good.

[Ferretlover]

Some people will never learn to wait before disseminate between real and unreal. There is no proof pro or contra LENR yet. Waiting doesn't cost you anything as long nobody asked 'you' for money.

I must say that there are some subjects here that suffer from pathological pessimism. Text deleted.

Can't you just wait Text deleted.meanwhile?! Could you?!

Thanks

[Rune]

There is no proof pro or contra LENR yet.

Actually, it's pretty strongly established that the LENR heat phenomenon exists and is real in the laboratory. It's just a question of whether or not it can be made reliable, controlled and commercialized.

[Alcassin]

Actually, it's pretty strongly established that the LENR heat phenomenon exists and is real in the laboratory.

That's a pure lie. Give me one independent paper. There is none.

Oh, and there is not enough optimism to make perpetuum mobile going. Burden of proof is on them, but because they are fighting with established, verified and observable laws of physics means that they are selling snake oil. And pessimism or optimism has nothing to do with that
Looks like cipi thinks that laws of nature can be defied by positive or negative thought.

[johndoe]

Waiting doesn't cost you anything as long nobody asked 'you' for money. Thanks

Does this count? Sol gave a long Powerpoint presentation which summarised the scientific support for ECAT. It will change the world and "remember where you where when history was made" He was seeking the Australasian licence in Rossi’s business and Rossi (who frequently denies seeking money) was demanding 100,000 Euros by the end of January.

http://www.skeptics.com.au/wordpress/wp ... fusion.pdf

[vision-master]

Investigating pseudo-science and the paranormal from a responsible scientific viewpoint

I like the word responsible, what the heck does taht mean?

I suppose 'they' regard the theory of evolution as scientific fact? lsol

[johndoe]

OMg!
A creationist
There is no hope

[Rune]

That's a pure lie. Give me one independent paper.

You are just really uninformed and unable to do simple online checks for yourself.

You can find some 70 scientific papers described in books like the one below or at places like New Energy Times or LENR-CANR.org (Best link! - all papers available for download). They are all there.

Low-Energy Nuclear Reactions Sourcebook published by The American Chemical Society

This book is a summary of selected experimental and theoretical research performed over the last 19 years that gives profound and unambiguous evidence for low energy nuclear reaction (LENR), historically known as cold fusion.
In 1989, the subject was announced with great fanfare, to the chagrin of many people in the science community. However, the significant claim of its discoverers, Martin Fleischmann and Stanley Pons, excess heat without harmful neutron emissions or strong gamma radiation, involving electrochemical cells using heavy water and palladium, has held strong.

In recent years, LENR, within the field of condensed matter nuclear science, has begun to attract widespread attention and is regarded as a potential alternative and renewable energy source to confront climate change and energy scarcity. The aim of the research is to collect experimental findings for LENR in order to present reasonable explanations and a conclusive theoretical and practical working model.

The goal of the field is directed toward the fabrication of LENR devices with unique commercial potential demonstrating an alternative energy source that does not produce greenhouse gases, long-lived radiation or strong prompt radiation. The idea of LENR has led to endless discussions about the kinetic impossibility of intense nuclear reactions with high coulomb barrier potential. However, recent theoretical work may soon shed light on this mystery.