LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 2 (merged)

[Rune]

Perpetual motionists have changed their technologies keeping in line...

Yeah, except that LENR hasn't got a damn thing to do with perpetual motion.

The article is about "free energy" and lists several fusion schemes up to 2006, along with the "Space Quantum Motor", "Motionless Electromagnetic Generator" and "Etheric Wave Accumulator "

Well, LENR isn't "free" energy. The energy is ostensibly coming from weak nuclear reactions that are poorly understood in which energy is released.

At least, this is what all the foremost theoreticians are saying. LENR is a real phenomenon and people who are involved in the field and who have read all the papers don't question the existence of the phenomenon. Probably around 20 theories have been posited by scientists and researchers around the world that try to explain the observed excess heat. The big question is how much energy can be liberated from these nuclear processes.

Free energy is something entirely different. Things like zero point and perpetual motion fall into that category. Your posts on it don't belong here. They're off topic.

[Keith_McClary]

The energy is ostensibly coming from weak nuclear reactions that are poorly understood in which ener.
At least, this is what all the foremost theoreticians are saying.
...
Probably around 20 theories have been posited by scientists and researchers around the world that try to explain the observed excess heat.

I am aware that very tiny amounts of energy can be released through weak interactions. This is consistent with standard theory.

Other than that, where would I find a bibliography of such theories?

[Rune]

The energy is ostensibly coming from weak nuclear reactions that are poorly understood in which ener.
At least, this is what all the foremost theoreticians are saying.
...
Probably around 20 theories have been posited by scientists and researchers around the world that try to explain the observed excess heat.

I am aware that very tiny amounts of energy can be released through weak interactions. This is consistent with standard theory.

Other than that, where would I find a bibliography of such theories?

http://www.newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/The ... ndex.shtml

[pstarr]

We've tried all sorts of "solutions" here at PO.

Nanogenerator provides continuous power by harvesting energy from the environment

It makes for fun reading. I was at my snarky best back then. Oh, the days

Pstarr--They harnessed a great deal of nano-energy from the nervous energy of stressed rodents. They held a conference in Hamsterdam, if I remember correctly. The energy output was so astonishing and potentially dangerous, they discontinued, fearing excess carbon emissions from gerbil warming.

The gerbils. God damned gerbils. We used to stimulate them in the coven. it was a sight to behold

[Rune]

"Gerbiling" is also off-topic, pstarr. That belongs in the the '70s Greenwich Village Gay Scene thread. Mods, please move.

[Rune]

I have come to the conclusion that the E-Cat and Defkalion are scams.

Yes, but you are oddly dismissive of this whole amazing spectacle - the sudden appearance of THREE LENR scams (in your opinion) now operating and receiving, directly and indirectly, a good deal of theoretical possibility from physicists and long-time researchers at universities and such. Interest is high.

Many large scientific conferences are taking place on LENR regularly now. The Emergent Technologies Conference in Texas just took place. A LENR presentation was prominently featured. However, in your opinion, this is one of the wildest goose chases in all scientific history. Yet you remain dismissive and willfully ignorant and uninterested in the details of this near-flabbergasting mass delusion or mass criminality. You have no respect for scientists and professors' first hand reports or judgements of the demonstrations. You, an anonymous uncredentialed person, place yourself and your judgement above them in fact, as do others here.

And you just boringly repeat over, and over, ad infinitum, that Leonardo Corp., Defkalion Green Technologies, and Brillioun Energy are fraudulent - but you never explain the frauds believably, or explain how these LENR companies realistically expect to get away with anything if they WERE able to somehow take a lot of money and run. And not be prosecuted or just plain hunted down.

These researchers have to show their hands before long. This situation cannot last. Something has to give one way or the other soon. I agree with Gerald Celente on this.

The only thing you seem to be able to do is desperately hold fast to the notion that Rossi is the ONLY player in this wider LENR sphere of interest - and then criticize only him as a way to dismiss out-of-hand the LENR R&D field in its entirety. But this is simply not true that Rossi is a one man band. You're willfully ignorant if you believe this. And anyone who follows what is going on knows this.

You're just not interested at all in your own opinion on an ongoing current event. Yet, you continue to click on this thread as if you had something more substantial to say other than to spit "Scams!" or "Nuts!" every single time. One would think that you would take a more interested stance on the amazing spectacle of there being now THREE independent, competitive LENR scams which are frequently making lots of blogosphere news. You never seem to follow through by speculating about the true motives of these scam artists and why they have suddenly burst onto the scene. How do they expect to achieve their goals if they cannot show any results? How are they going to pull off any of these separate scams...simultaneously and competitively?

I'm still following the unfolding events in this story here in this thread. I don't think there is anything particularly remarkable about a thread which deals with current events in Energy Technology. I have to wonder why you bother posting the same boring "Rossi is a madman" statement while ignoring the whole LENR field. It's like watching someone knock their head against the wall for some stupid reason.

Damn, I write well!

[threadbare]

"Gerbiling" is also off-topic, pstarr. That belongs in the the '70s Greenwich Village Gay Scene thread. Mods, please move.

And I just pulled up to my keyboard with a nice warm cup of gerbil tea! Damn!

[kublikhan]

Damn, I write well!

No, actually you don't. You are actually the one who is willfully ignorant of all of the scam signs. You are actually the one who is repeating the same thing over and over, ad infinitum. I thought I would let your last post slide so we can stop the dogfighting posts and concentrate on LENR in this thread but you just reposted your dogfighting posts again. "I never seem to follow through by speculating about the true motives of these scam artists." Really Carl? You seriously posted that? And a second time you bolded it? If you comb through all of your various LENR threads I must have answered this a dozen times. Many of which was my personal speculation. But once I even posted an entire article on this subject. Yet you keep posting it over and over. You are the poster boy for being willfully ignorant. No matter how many times I answer the question, you refuse to see it. It would be understandable if you said something like, "Bah, your speculations are crap kubli". But to actually flat out deny I even made the speculations? Look in the mirror before throwing around your willfully ignorant accusations and reposting your cat fight posts. At first I thought we just had a difference of opinion, but your troll posts tell a different story.

willful ignorance
The practice or act of intentional and blatant avoidance, disregard or disagreement with facts, empirical evidence and well-founded arguments because they oppose or contradict your own existing personal beliefs. Many times it is practiced due to laziness--people not wanting to have to do the work to rethink their opinions, the fear of the unknown, the fear of being wrong, or sometimes simply close-mindedness.

[Rune]

Damn, I write well!

No, actually you don't. You are actually the one who is willfully ignorant of all of the scam signs.

There is nothing wrong with believing that these three new LENR companies are complete scams. But whether you think they are scams or whether you think they have something to show, the story is relevant and interesting. So I created a thread which follows the story and I try not have a biased value judgement on the story too much. I just want to know. I've told people that I am very optimistic about LENR overall as a real phenomenon which can be refined and developed, but I don't really know about Rossi, Defkalion, or Brillioun.

You know, some people have a soap opera. I have the LENR news... that overall picture of this emerging technology, that is. Rossi, Defkalion, and Brillioun Energy are a subset of this larger picture that I follow. But each LENR company within itself is interesting. So what? I follow this it. I don't care if they're scams. If they are scams, I'm interested. If they are NOT scams, I'm even more interested.

We have been over and over this. But you dumbly believe that I am a believer (I must have been for starting the thread in the first place, right?), but I find this LENR story fascinating from every side.

No one has shown to me that these companies are scams. I can't see a reasonable scam that would be worth the effort that these people are putting into there criminal machinations. You have been watching too much James Bond. There is way, way too much skepticism now for any dumbass energy scams to thrive without complete scrutiny. It's an open source, internet community we live in now. Everyone wants scrutiny.

I give the scam hypothesis a zero credibility. But does that mean that you HAVE to believe that commercial LENR systems are real and imminent? I don't know. I'm just another mofo who wants to know, you know? I follow the story to see where it goes. If you don't like it, you can take a hike. I don't care. And I'm a poet too, so best beware!

[kublikhan]

So I created a thread which follows the story and I try not have a biased value judgement on the story too much.

Well then let me tell you are failing in this goal. Take my post from Friday. I just posted an article detailing reasons why Rossi is a suspected scammer. I didn't even go into any dog fighting posts at all. In response, you post a long winded post on how this site is full of people posting horseshit. Then I replied calmly to your questions, and in response you go on the attack against me, huffing and puffing how anyone who questions that magic of Rossi is willfully ignorant, delusional, etc. Trying to paint yourself as an unbiased news reporter is a joke. You turn into a vapid fanboy the moment someone posts something something negative of Rossi or LENR.

I follow the story to see where it goes. If you don't like it, you can take a hike. I don't care.

Did I say: "Carl, stop following this story. It pisses me off every singe LENR post you make." No I did not. In fact, I posted the opposite many times. I even complemented you on keeping us informed on the latest LENR developments. Yet you seem to remain willfully ignorant of those posts. Instead, you prefer to make trolling comments telling me to take a hike.

[Quinny]

The 'unbiased reporter' has had no news to post for a long time now. Unless you count Rossi being caught out over his 'fully automated factories'.

I wonder why most peoples usernames don't seem to get 'messed up'?

[vision-master]

“The E-Cat machine is basically a heater. It uses a secret catalyser to fuse hydrogen and nickel together to form copper. Copper has a lower energy state than Nickel, and the excess energy is released in the form of a gamma ray. The gamma ray hits a wall of lead where it is absorbed and transformed into heat. The whole process is incredibly efficient and can heat any fluid that passes through the machine.”

[diemos]

“The E-Cat machine is basically a heater. It uses a secret catalyser to fuse hydrogen and nickel together to form copper. Copper has a lower energy state than Nickel, and the excess energy is released in the form of a gamma ray. The gamma ray hits a wall of lead where it is absorbed and transformed into heat. The whole process is incredibly efficient and can heat any fluid that passes through the machine.”

We've been over this before. Several kiloWatts worth of gamma rays is not going to be shielded by a couple of inches of lead to the point where you can stand by this thing and not keel over dead instantly.

High-grade, refined bullshit.

I know numbers scare people and their eyes glaze over instantly, but it's good for you to know them anyway:

Fatal dose = 10 Sv = 10 Joules / kg so your average 100kg person needs to absorb 1000 Joules of ionizing energy to die instantly.

1 kilowatt = 1000 Joules / second

1 megawatt = 1,000,000 Joules / second

2 inches of lead will reduce the flux of 1 MeV photons by a factor of 50.

so his 1MW plant will be putting out 20,000 Joules / second in all directions.

Assume the cross-sectional area of a human is 2 meters squared, then if you're standing 2 meters away you will die in a second.

If you're standing 14 meters away you will die in a minute.

If you're standing 106 meters away you will die in an hour.

If you're standing 523 meters away you will die in a day.

If you're standing 31 km away you will pick up an extra 1 Sv/year of exposure. Normal background is 3.5 mSv / year

If you're standing 523 km away you will double your exposure compared to normal background.

All of this neglects the shielding effect of the air it's passing through which is non-negligible after 100 m.

Bottom line, if he was really producing that many gamma-rays we would be able to tell. Even with the shielding in place.

[EnergyUnlimited]

I don't care. And I'm a poet too, so best beware!

It seems that your poetry is not appreciated by moderators of this forum.
Perhaps they need some study to understand it better.

[vision-master]

The 'unbiased reporter' has had no news to post for a long time now. Unless you count Rossi being caught out over his 'fully automated factories'.

I wonder why most peoples usernames don't seem to get 'messed up'?

bc this site is supported by the oil industry?

[Quinny]

And WTF does that mean VM?

[EnergyUnlimited]

And WTF does that mean VM?

It seems that he is off meds now.

[cipi604]

Bottom line, if he was really producing that many gamma-rays we would be able to tell. Even with the shielding in place.

Nice numbers

But from where did you get the "Several kiloWatts worth of gamma rays" , I mean let's say it produces gamma rays, all the tests show very low levels.
The reactor can not produce just gamma rays. The energy is going to spread mostly through heat .The gamma rays in this case are supposed to be a 'we don't know level' which is a lot smaller than "Several kiloWatts worth of gamma rays" . There is a guy on youtube who measured some stuff. He says he measured some. Some is not zero.

I hope you follow me here

And yes this guy Rossi is a waste of time. Defkalion says july. Waiting is for free.

P.S. Did you see the gas prices lately?!?!?

[Rune]

Defkalion Announcement

Markus NApr 12, 2012 (edited) - Public
Defkalion Green Technologies
3 Xanthou Street
Glyfada 16674
Greece

10th April, 2012

Dear Sirs,
You have shown interest in our company either for commercial, technical, scientific or research-based reasons. This letter is sent to you privately; it is not a press release, nor intended for publication. We will soon be making our public announcements accordingly. We honour our word to reciprocate your good will and interest in our work during a period that could be defined as “business as unusual”. From now on, we progress full steam ahead, business as usual.

For over 20 years many have believed in the existence of a new thermal energy source known as Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR). A considerable body of literature, measurements and tests have been pursued by laboratories in many countries. The LENR field has yet to provide a concrete understanding of the fundamental theory. A lot of work still needs to be done in the theoretical analysis and beyond.

Defkalion scientific team consists of scientific and engineering experts. It has successfully managed to trigger and monitor Chemically Assisted Low Energy Nuclear Reactions caused by Nickel and Hydrogen nuclei. This unique LENR technology is based on proprietary methodologies and engineering designs.

Defkalion has conducted third party tests on its core technology by internationally recognized and reputable private and public organizations from Europe and America. Today, there is solid, unambiguous evidence confirming our technology. We are at the dawn of a new era of clean, inexpensive, limitless renewable energy.

We believe that LENR is a technology that should be benefited by everybody. Our core philosophy and vision were always based on responsible use. We believe in creating new opportunities for fossil free energy which will have a huge impact on climate change and carbon emissions. It goes without saying that our technology will also have a great positive impact on the Greek economy with dynamic implications on the global economy. We support the transition of low cost energy to third world countries while also showing commitment to an entirely new field of scientific research that will initiate new products through research and development as well as the rebirth of high cost energy technologies.

It is unlikely that the commercialization of LENR technology will have an immediate significant decrease in fossil fuel consumption, but a very dramatic psychological impact is expected. Investors will see the medium and long-term implications of significantly lower energy prices, and consequentially lower the assessed value of soon-to-be obsolete energy infrastructure, conventional energy companies, and long-term contracts for their relatively expensive products.

Defkalion will become the first global player in LENR using its proprietary technology to commercialize its new products and diversify into new Research & Development efforts for new applications. It plans to have a fully operational prototype ready by July 2012.

Defkalion has the most advanced technical and business development in this new energy paradigm as confirmed and verified by long time LENR experts. Although we still have some more months ahead of us before our commercial product is finalized for market entry, we are ready today to share our plans with potential partners.

Our launch-strategy for this technology with minimal risk of failure encompasses fast speed, wide applications, many countries, competitive pricing, protection against competition, as well as in-depth international support.
Your interest represents one of over 1,000 entities from more than 70 countries. Our business with potential partners is two-fold: either as an OEM to manufacture, sell and service our products in given countries, or to jointly create R&D project towards new applications using our technology.

Defkalion business is primarily a technology licensing company with expected revenues being generated from the following models:

a. OEM License Agreements
Licenses to build and sell Hyperion products are sold to companies with exclusivity for a given country. Each license sold for Euros 40.5 million represents one factory with maximum capacity 300,000 units annually (varying capacity and numbers of factories will change the fee accordingly). No further royalty fees are paid by Licensees. Powder (cartridge format) will be sold as a component to each Hyperion unit.

Defkalion selects one company as OEM from every country based on their readiness to run this technology in their country, their willingness to execute the project, and their ability to handle a 100 million Euro investment.
Defkalion shall provide to every OEM Licensee a full Transfer of Technology & Know-How concerning production, maintenance, installation and recharge of Hyperion products. This will be done after signing of contracts and will be done in phases through a deliverables matrix.

b. Joint Ventures through R&D
Companies can further develop Defkalion’s proprietary LENR technology as a heat source through joint R&D for specific processes and/or applications according to their expertise as global leaders in their own industry. Defkalion shall partner with them with global distribution rights as niche market players, where R&D is coordinated in Greece.
Existing interest has already come from the following sectors: marine propulsion; water desalination; automobile; small aircraft; mining/extraction; telecom towers; cooling/heating; green-houses; fertilizers; food & beverage; cement; commercial heating; household heating; drying industry; data storage; hospitals; airport take-off & landing strips; district heating; battery charging.

Should you be interested to continue through one of these approaches, please contact us accordingly. For entities and/or individuals that wish simply to purchase units, you will have to wait until there is a representative in your country. For businesses and/or technical interests, we will need from you the following:

Entity name, CEO/Director’s name, main address, website, contact details
History, operational overview, LENR interest

Future milestone events that you can expect from Defkalion are the following:
Presentation of a fully functioning prototype shown to the international scientific community, open to the world’s media, during the summer of 2012.

Not long after, an international press conference with all the companies involved in this project and the OEMs from each country having signed a contract with us.

We look forward to hearing from those of you whose interest corresponds to our business models. We wish the rest of you - whose anticipation remains the witnessing of a final product - patience and support.

Kind Regards,

Symeon Tsalikoglou
Director, Business Development & Marketing
Praxen Defkalion Green Technologies (Global) Ltd.

Still waiting for test results. Still can't see a scam.

[diemos]

It is unlikely that the commercialization of LENR technology will have an immediate significant decrease in fossil fuel consumption

How true. In fact, the commercialization of LENR technology will have no impact whatsoever.

Still can't see a scam.

Which say far more about you than it does about LENR.