Laundry Detergent: Totally Unnecessary

[Serial_Worrier]

Sorry, this is where I draw the line. I love totally clean clothes and I will continue to use the full amount of detergent with warm water.

[Sixstrings]

I've always used cold water for laundry. I honestly don't understand why you ever need to use hot (something to do with colors fading?).. I can't tell a difference. Plus I have a switch on my water heater.. so it would be a hassle to flip it just for laundry. For showers it's no big deal, heats up in ten minutes. Saves a lot on electricity.. 24/7 hot water is totally unnecessary, anyone can flip a switch ten minutes before bathing.

As for detergent.. I would think it's necessary for dirt and whatnot. What I do is use very little, like only half a cup for a whole load. Stuff comes out smelling good so works for me.

[LGW]

Not unneccesary at all. My jeans stay smelly and spotty from all the fat and dirt worked into them if I do not use detergent.
Raising temperature reduces need for detergent but destroys the fabric and makes them shrink.
My preference is ordinary amounts of biologically degradable detergent, and a low temperature (35C).

[Heineken]

I haven't found detergent to make much of a difference, as I said originally. OTOH, I'm a guy and not a gal. One's person's clean is another person's dirty, perhaps.

So why use detergent? Could it be because we're programmed by advertisers and culture to use detergent? If we are conditioned to believe it makes a difference, perhaps we will "perceive" a difference.

I'm sure there are perfumes in laundry detergents that make the clothes smell cleaner. But that doesn't mean they are cleaner.

Now, drying on a line and drying in a dryer makes a big difference in how something feels. I (and my wife) continue to use a dryer because of all the time and trouble it saves.

[Loki]

Good to see you again Heineken

[Pretorian]

holy crap last time i've read you your bottle cap was on the left.

[Keith_McClary]

holy crap last time i've read you your bottle cap was on the left.

I don't remember it looking so old and crinkly.

[tsakach]

Strange as it may sound, one of my consulting jobs was with a company that manufactured equipment for industrial laundry systems. The laundry process was described to me as resulting from the force of water driving soil from cloth. For example, washing clothes by hand can be done by beating and scrubbing cloth without soap or detergent. If needed, water heated to above 160F will kill most bacteria. No laundry detergent is needed at all!

The waste water can be recycled with a grey-water system called "laundry to landscape":

Conventional plumbing systems dispose of greywater via septic tanks or sewers. The many drawbacks of this practice include overloading treatment systems, contaminating natural waters with poorly treated effluent, and high ecological/economic cost.
Greywater reuse follows the same principles that make wild rivers clean…even though they drain many square miles of dirt, worms, and feces. Beneficial bacteria break down nasties into water-soluble plant food, and the plants eat it, leaving pure water.

http://www.oasisdesign.net/greywater/createanoasis/index.htm

[Heineken]

Good to see you again Heineken

Thanks Loki (and Pretorian). Don't know why I've been gone so long. Just got tired of typing, I guess. (It was my second long vacation from PO.)

I've missed you guys, though, and the interesting exchanges.

[Heineken]

Strange as it may sound, one of my consulting jobs was with a company that manufactured equipment for industrial laundry systems. The laundry process was described to me as resulting from the force of water driving soil from cloth. For example, washing clothes by hand can be done by beating and scrubbing cloth without soap or detergent. If needed, water heated to above 160F will kill most bacteria. No laundry detergent is needed at all!

The waste water can be recycled with a grey-water system called "laundry to landscape":

Conventional plumbing systems dispose of greywater via septic tanks or sewers. The many drawbacks of this practice include overloading treatment systems, contaminating natural waters with poorly treated effluent, and high ecological/economic cost.
Greywater reuse follows the same principles that make wild rivers clean…even though they drain many square miles of dirt, worms, and feces. Beneficial bacteria break down nasties into water-soluble plant food, and the plants eat it, leaving pure water.

http://www.oasisdesign.net/greywater/createanoasis/index.htm

I rerouted the grey water discharge from our washing machine. It no longer flows into the septic tank, but collects in a barrel under the house and is sump-pumped through a pipe into the woods. This takes a huge strain off the septic drainfield. I highly recommend this if you have a large country place, even though it might be technically illegal.

[anador]

Obviously this has already been brought up, But Dr. Bronners is certainly my favorite for hair, body, etc.

Ive never really needed deodorant, though I occasionally use old spice before work, cuz im too cheap to buy cologne and I want to smell scented, rather than just pleasant... weird I know.

I have found that the essential oil Dr. Bronners is combined with effects how the soap works.

The tea tree oil dried my skin out, but lavender and almond do not. I also love the peppermint, not just because it zings in the shower, but its like walking around with your own portable air conditioner for an hour afterwards.

Never ballzed up enough to use the stuff on my teeth, but have cleaned dishes and laundry with it.

Funny thing is, my family has used castille soap for centuries, My great grandparents came from the Azores, where they have made castille soap since the renaissance. and we have used it, with the exception for the short foray into suburbia that my parents made in the 80s and 90s, in an unbroken line since then.

I have also stopped bleaching altogether, I find that borax, washing powder, and maybe a little oxyclean do as good a job.

Also, bluing keeps shirts whiter than if they were bleached by filtering out the yellow tinge of old cotton. and that is literally just a dye.

I do need shirts for work, so I do have to use some detergent, though dr bronners is usually more than sufficient for my normal clothes

[Serial_Worrier]

You've got to be kidding. You will pry my washing machine on warm cycle with full dose of detergent from my COLD DEAD HANDS.

[PhebaAndThePilgrim]

Laundry Detergent Recipe
You need:
20 Mule Team borax
Arm & Hammer Washing Soda
One bar of Fels Naptha soap, or Zote* soap.
A clean 5 gallon bucket with a lid.

In a medium saucepan heat 4 cups of water. Grate bar of soap into water. Dissolve soap over low heat. In the meantime fill a 5 gallon bucket one half full of hot water. Add dissolved soap and water to bucket. Stir. Add one cup of Arm & Hammer washing soda, and 1/2 cup of borax. Stir well. Fill bucket the rest of the way with hot water. Put lid on and let set over night. If all went well you should have a chunky gel the next morning.
At this point the directions state to fill containers half with detergent, and half with water to make 10 gallons of detergent. I just leave it in the 5 gallon bucket, and use less than is called for. I find it does a better job undiluted. Besides 10 gallons of liquid to store makes no sense to me. And, the solution will grow bacteria if left for long periods of time.
The pilgrim always gets his farm clothes filthy. This detergent does a great job. You will need to get used to not seeing tons of suds in the water. Also, you will need to start the water running, add the detergent, and swirl the water with your hand to dissolve the detergent. It will foam some while the water is running, but when you put the clothes in the machine the suds go away.
I read that suds are not needed to clean. American consumers like suds so manufacturers actually add chemicals that make detergents foamy.
On real greasy clothing I add a bit of extra borax, up to 1/4 cup per load. This detergent does not foam, but gets clothing very clean with no heavy petroleum based perfume odors. A friend who hunts deer said the scent from the Fels Naptha adds a scent also, so is not scent free.
After the soap cools, and before you let it set overnight, you can add natural essential oils if you wish to scent it. Many like lavender, but I found a combination of Spearmint and Lemongrass make a delightful clean scent. Add 10-15 drops of essential oil per 2 gallons after dilution. If you leave the detergent in the 5 gallon bucket, leave the lid on.

Powdered laundry detergent
8 cups washing soda
8 cups baking soda
8 cups grated Kirk's Original Coco Castile Soap (I find Kirks too expensive so will probably use Zote)
12 cups borax
Mix, store in a sealed tub. Use 1/8 cup per full load of laundry. I have not tried this one yet, but it sounds like it would be very effective on dirty farm clothes.

I also make my own dishwasher detergent. So far it has worked great.
Dishwasher Detergent Recipe
1 cup borax
1 cup washing soda
1/2 cup Citric acid***
1/2 cup kosher salt
mix, store in covered container. Use one level tablespoon per load of dishes.
It is important to use a liquid in the Jet Dry container with this recipe. Fill the Jet Dry container with plain vinegar. Prevents build-up on dishes.

My next goal is homemade dish-washing liquid. The recipe I have calls for Octagon Soap. I can't find Octagon locally so as a last resort plan to order from the internet.

Here is the recipe. Please post results if you make before I do.
Dish-washing Liquid Recipe
2 bars Octagon** Soap
4-5 quarts water
1 cup baking soda
1/4 cup washing soda
1/4 cup lemon juice
grate soap in water. heat until melted. COOL! This is important
Add baking soda, washing soda, and lemon juice.
I read on the internet that adding baking soda and washing soda to the hot liquid can cause it to bubble up.

For hair washing, I use Kiss My Face natural castile bar soap. Does a great job. My next goal is to find a natural rinse. I am going to try to make my own chamomile/lemon rinse.

*Zote soap has a fascinating history. For decades women in Mexico would use Zote laundry soap bars to hand wash their clothing. Very common to see the women at the river with their bar of pink Zote soap. There is a natural brightener in Zote soap that really gets clothes white. I just ordered a case of Zote from my local IGA store. ($1.07 per bar) Amazingly they carry Zote in their warehouse, but not Octagon.
I recently learned that is because Zote soap has been used as a great catfish bait for years.
Zote soap is made in Mexico. I only have one bar right now that I hand rub on stubborn stains. Zote is great.
**Colgate has made Octagon over 100 years. It is for doing dishes, not laundry. It is said to be a Southern product. I am having difficulty finding it. According to information on the net, Octagon is extremely versatile.
Fels Naptha works well for laundry, but am looking forward to trying Zote on next recipe.
If you plan on doing this at some point I recommend buying the ingredients now. The homemade cleaning recipes are really catching on, and in my area the prices for Fels Naptha range from 1.07 per bar to 2.47. I am sure prices will go up as more people start making these recipes.
***Citric acid is the most expensive ingredient. It is usually sold for wine and beer making. I found it through my local bulk food co-op for 4.95 per pound.

There are several reasons I started doing this.
#1, frugality. Saves a fortune.
#2, plastic. I added up my yearly use of plastic detergent, dishwashing, shampoo, etc. bottles. It depressed me.
#3. neuro-toxins in synthetic colors and fragrances.
#4. Corporate mind-set.
#5. Polluting the environment (most of the ingredients in above recipes contain no petroleum based chemicals. There are synthetic fragrances in the bars of soap, but they are minimal.
Pheba.

[PhebaAndThePilgrim]

Just a safety note. The hot water you add to 5 gallon bucket is hot tap water, not boiling water. It doesn't need to be that hot where it is dangerous to handle.
Pheba.

[PhebaAndThePilgrim]

^
Bumping up in case anybody wants the recipe.

[Ayoob]

I make it with one bar grated Ivory, one cup washing soda, 1/2 cup Borax, one cup Oxyclean run through a food processor.

Optional - one cup white vinegar instead of bleach, and a rag with a few drops of your favorite essential oil in the dyer. I like lavender in bed linens, and t
his or that for wor/play clothes.

Saves me a fortune.

Sorry about typos, new to using a tablet.

[Heineken]

You've got to be kidding. You will pry my washing machine on warm cycle with full dose of detergent from my COLD DEAD HANDS.

And who knows, they just might BE dead.

Our general inability to make changes and sacrifices in an orderly way is at the core of our massive problems---our doom.

[PhebaAndThePilgrim]

Hi: Found Colgate Octagon soap very reasonable on a site called BuytheCase. I had to buy 60 bars, so it better make good dish soap, lol, but only paid .86 cents per bar. Will post after I make the recipe to let folks know if it works well.
Serial-Worrier, if you are using liquid laundry detergent you are paying for 10 cents worth of soap and neuro-toxic chemicals for fragrance, foaming, and color. You are paying for a plastic container with a wonderful scent label, i.e., tropical waterfall, ocean surf, etc. But, what you are mostly paying for is plain water.
Once you make the homemade detergent that fact will be realized.
It is totally insane to ship those containers across the continent with 10 cents worth of soap and chemicals because they are being shipped in water. I am ashamed that I was so swept up in it for so many years. My one regret is that I did not pull away from the nonsense years ago. I would go to the store, and spend a half hour sniffing laundry detergent. How insane is that.
I have health problems related to auto-immune problems, and severe allergies. What damage was I doing inhaling what science has shown to be potent neuro-toxins.
There is a saying: A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. I bought the ingredients for home-made laundry detergent, then it took two more months to have the courage to make the stuff. It took several more days to actually start using it. I had to do a lot of mind work to unhook from the promises of tropical waterfall and ocean surf.
Now that I know they have been lying to me to take my money I am so pissed.
Pheba

[Serial_Worrier]

You've got to be kidding. You will pry my washing machine on warm cycle with full dose of detergent from my COLD DEAD HANDS.

And who knows, they just might BE dead.

Our general inability to make changes and sacrifices in an orderly way is at the core of our massive problems---our doom.

Sorry but life without the modern conveniences is not worth living!

[Outcast_Searcher]

I make it with one bar grated Ivory, one cup washing soda, 1/2 cup Borax, one cup Oxyclean run through a food processor.

Optional - one cup white vinegar instead of bleach, and a rag with a few drops of your favorite essential oil in the dyer. I like lavender in bed linens, and t
his or that for wor/play clothes.

Saves me a fortune.

Sorry about typos, new to using a tablet.

A FORTUNE? How much do you pay for all those ingredients, and how much fooling around do you do to make / store it, and how about washing out the food processor REALLY REALLY well? (unless you want to use your soap washing out your soiled underwear the next time you cook with that food processor).

I buy a good solid brand like Purex with no additives for about $2.50 when it's on sale, and it washes about 100 loads (I don't use the full amount they recommend, as I'm generally not playing football in the mud). So at 2 cents a load savings at most considering the costs of your home-made soap, somehow I don't see you saving anything like a fortune unless you have 20ish kids or something.

Soap is CHEAP. People worry about stuff like this while wasting tens (or hundreds) of thousands of dollars on too much housing, cars, fancy clothes, furniture, exotic travel, eating out, etc. etc. Makes as much sense as congressional budgeting.