Laundry Detergent: Totally Unnecessary

[nwildmand]

i also use very little detergent. i guess i always considered the recomended amount wasteful. my bottle of detergent is well over a year old and still 2/3 full.

the only thing im anal about keeping clean is socks and underwear. ill change my socks at lunchtime if i have the chance.

work shirts go for a couple of days before they hit the bin. the same jeans (this may gross some out) will be worn to work for weeks at a time.

as for my good clothes... i figure if i take a shower and put them on for a night on the town how can they get dirty? needless to say they dont get washed much either.


so tell me people in the know... why do some people stink so bad? they wear doederant and shower everyday and have all kinds of soaps and if they dont keep up with it they just reek to high heaven. i myself shower every 3-4 days never use soap (i figure the shampoo running off my head is good enough - ive got a lot of hair) and have never bought doederant in my life. i dont stink. and i know its not me not being able to smell myself. one time this summer i was on the road working and sleeping in my van. i had not showered for 12 days. i got home that night looking like i had been drug through a knothole and went straight to the bar. i asked a couple of my friends who are known for their brutal honesty if i stank. they said they could not smell anything.

so why do some people reek so bad when their hygine is so much better than mine.

i think that all that crap they put on their body is throwing there personal bacteria off balance leaving only super bacteria behind.

any thought on this?

[Heineken]

Off the top of my head . . . the answer lies, wild man, in factors like skin pH and the unique species mix and population of bacteria that one's skin supports. These vary from person to person. Things like diet and exercise also have an impact, I believe. Humans have natural odors that, at least to dogs, are as unique as signatures.

I'm a lot like you. I use shampoo and deodorant rather rarely and take a shower only every third day or so, at least in winter. These habits have cured me of a dry-skin-in-winter problem I used to have.

After a period of labor or exercise, I often just wipe the sweaty areas off with a wet washcloth, then dry thoroughly. Works fine.

No need to absorb any more nasty chemicals than necessary. (This also applies to laundry detergent, which imparts chemicals to our clothes that may be absorbed through the skin.)

Your Darwinian theory about "super bacteria" on the skin of people who constantly wash and constantly apply deodorant and antibacterial soap makes sense.

[Laurasia]

Well, my washing done on "half-rations" has turned out just fine, so it's quarter-rations next washday. Interestingly on the lovely subject of poopy pants, Heineken mentioned boiling or throwing them away. When I was a little girl, baby diapers/nappies were always boiled in a special big pan (used for nothing else) with borax, I think. They were boiled on the stove, and turned with big wooden tongs, lifted out, rinsed and hung out to dry. Any staining still left was usually taken care of by the Sun.

I've also decided to cut down on the amount of dishwashing liquid I use when I wash the dishes - "just enough soap to break the surface tension on the water" as my Dad used to say.

Regards,

L.

[Heineken]

Congrats, Laurasia.

Anyone trying what Laurasia is doing will discover exactly the same thing---less detergent equals the same results.

[Loki]

I've also decided to cut down on the amount of dishwashing liquid I use when I wash the dishes - "just enough soap to break the surface tension on the water" as my Dad used to say.

That's another good subject. I tend to be kind of stingy with laundry soap and body soap, but I do lather on the dishwashing soap. I hand wash all my dishes with a sponge that I keep very soapy. Anyone have a more efficient method? I don't have an automatic dishwasher, so that's not an option. A bottle of dishwashing liquid will last me for quite a few months, but I do often think that I'm using too much.

And thanks to gg3 and Mudpuppy for relaying their experiences with that wonder washer gizmo. So who's right? Should I get it or not? Funds are rather tight with me at the moment, so I don't want to drop $40-$50 on something that won't work very well. Is it durable? Will it last for years or is it typical plastic junk that falls apart with regular use?

[shakespear1]

What ever happened to Borax?

I recall many years ago there was a detergent which had borax in it. There was this commercial of a long wagon team hauling the stuff across some salt flats in the US.

Is borax such good stuff?

[Heineken]

Washing powders may contain less-soluble "fillers" that can plug up your septic system, if you have one. Liquid detergents are better if you feel you must use a detergent.

[threadbear]

Come on, Aaron et al. Be reasonable.

I do manual labor outdoors almost every day, and I swear that the clothes-washing approach I described works adequately.

We are so fixated on getting out every last stain and having "whites" that glow in the dark. We are infected with this fixation by advertising, the office world, and our mothers.

The point is to get clothes clean, not spotless.

The attitude of "out, every damned last spot" is a madness typical of our society, and boy do we pay for it.

for outdoor work, great, but in today's office environment, i think i'd quickly be branded as an undesirable employee with personal hygiene and possible mental issues.

I'd certainly tell them detergent wasn't necessary, right before i was marched to the front entrance by building security.

So let that be your first act of defiance, my good man!! Rage, rage, rage against the washing machine.

[threadbear]

i also use very little detergent. i guess i always considered the recomended amount wasteful. my bottle of detergent is well over a year old and still 2/3 full.

the only thing im anal about keeping clean is socks and underwear. ill change my socks at lunchtime if i have the chance.

work shirts go for a couple of days before they hit the bin. the same jeans (this may gross some out) will be worn to work for weeks at a time.

as for my good clothes... i figure if i take a shower and put them on for a night on the town how can they get dirty? needless to say they dont get washed much either.


so tell me people in the know... why do some people stink so bad? they wear doederant and shower everyday and have all kinds of soaps and if they dont keep up with it they just reek to high heaven. i myself shower every 3-4 days never use soap (i figure the shampoo running off my head is good enough - ive got a lot of hair) and have never bought doederant in my life. i dont stink. and i know its not me not being able to smell myself. one time this summer i was on the road working and sleeping in my van. i had not showered for 12 days. i got home that night looking like i had been drug through a knothole and went straight to the bar. i asked a couple of my friends who are known for their brutal honesty if i stank. they said they could not smell anything.

so why do some people reek so bad when their hygine is so much better than mine.

i think that all that crap they put on their body is throwing there personal bacteria off balance leaving only super bacteria behind.

any thought on this?

You change your socks at lunchtime, if you have the chance. Oh BAby, where you bin all my life?

Apparently, to people from other cultures, who eat little meat, caucasians are real stinkers. I don't get the whole body odour thing. I mean, one day, and for some, one hour of physical exercise, and they are ripe. How is this useful? Is it to scare off predators, or what? It certainly can't be to attract potential mates, or we are seriously messed up, as a species.

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

One of the reasons the best chefs are middle aged white men is because they have the taste buds of that demographic and can cater to the taste that group prefers. The rest of the population won't find it as tasty, but who cares, as long as the main people are being taken care of....or at least that is what they are presumed to think.

Body odour would be hard for that demographic to notice as well. Its been well researched that a mans sense of smell/taste diminish dramatically with age. Some of us can tell if someone has eaten hamburger the night before by their body odour. the other side of this equation is filled with people who have exchanged their natural muskiness for the smell of deoderant. Yeuch.

One of the most sexually appealing smells is a clean washed guy that has his own natural musk present. That is why women like slow dancing so much. Clean yes, but naturally clean.

Lots of women are starting to get allergies to the different smells like Brut, and old spice because they are too powerful and overdone.

[Aaron]

One of the reasons the best chefs are middle aged white men is because they have the taste buds of that demographic and can cater to the taste that group prefers. The rest of the population won't find it as tasty, but who cares, as long as the main people are being taken care of....or at least that is what they are presumed to think.

Body odour would be hard for that demographic to notice as well. Its been well researched that a mans sense of smell/taste diminish dramatically with age. Some of us can tell if someone has eaten hamburger the night before by their body odour. the other side of this equation is filled with people who have exchanged their natural muskiness for the smell of deoderant. Yeuch.

One of the most sexually appealing smells is a clean washed guy that has his own natural musk present. That is why women like slow dancing so much. Clean yes, but naturally clean.

Lots of women are starting to get allergies to the different smells like Brut, and old spice because they are too powerful and overdone.

I have had women tell me this same thing.

And I sure can understand it since I'm hard-pressed to think of a better smell than fresh-scrubed girl.

[green_achers]

If you feel you simply must use anoint your clothing with detergent, probably you could get by with a squirt of dishwashing liquid. Soap is basically soap, no matter how it is packaged (and priced).

Actually, while soap and detergent are two similar chemical classes, they are different enough to make a big difference, especially if you are dealing with hard water. Soap + hard water = heavy scale (calcium, mostly) buildup that is bad for clothes, appliances, and your skin. Detergent (the ingredient in laundry and dish "soaps" and in shampoo) does not react with the Ca and Mg in hard water and leave the scale.

[Blake]

I have 1/2 acre for a septic field and it's precious close to my vegatables/orchard. I prefer clean food to clean clothes anyday!

[Chicken_Little]

Lots of women are starting to get allergies to the different smells like Brut, and old spice because they are too powerful and overdone.

Brut and Old Spice? What year are you living in, 1977?

Personally i use Issey Miyake Eau de Toilette.

[gg3]

Re. washing dishes with minimal detergent: DANGER! I lived with a bunch of folks in college and we tried everything for sustainability. We tried cutting back on dish detergent by diluting it substantially. The result of that was repeated cases of diarrhea until we figured out what was going on. Use all the detergent you need for dishes; this means visible suds on the sponge and dishes that are squeaky clean.

In fact a dishwasher is more efficient in terms of water and detergent use, than hand-washing dishes. If you don't use a heated cycle, and use only household hot water, the power consumption level is extraordinarily low also. My countertop unit (also made by Danby) uses 0.02 KWH per load, on a half-cycle (one wash, two rinses) and 2-1/4 gallons of water, with household hot water.

What I also do about dishes is let them soak in graywater between coming off the table and going into the dishwasher. The graywater in turn comes from the laundry rinse cycle. This loosens up all the food residue so that the dishwasher can be used on half-cycle successfully.

Re. body odor: If you try to over-sterilize your skin, you disrupt the normal micro-ecology that favors harmless bacteria, and give harmful and stinky ones an advantage. Normal washing is sufficient for cleanliness without screwing up your skin's ecosystems. Many people can switch over to taking a shower every other day or even every thirds day, with no problem.

Re. the Wonder Wash: apparently, contraptions of that type have a fairly long history. They will work satisfactorily if you know how to use them. They are durable enough for normal use but like anything else, can get broken if you treat them roughly. Keep the load small enough that it has a chance to slosh back and forth as the container is rotated. One pair of jeans plus two shirts, or five or six pairs of underwear, for example. Turn the crank slowly enough that the load gets maximum sloshing action, which will also be the speed at which turning it requires the most effort (energy input to the system).

EndOfGrowth, that guy was pulling your leg. Laundry detergent is not some kind of sand product, go look up the history.

Generally: Basic cleanliness is NOT the place to make radical cuts. Cut driving, heating, TV, movies, etc, but don't cut back on hygiene. That is, don't go letting yourself or your clothes or dishes go getting filthy in order to make a point. You really don't want jock itch, athlete's foot, persistent diarrhea, etc., and you sure as hell don't want to be spreading contagious illness around at a time when medical care may be more and more difficult to obtain.

Basic sanitation is the most significant factor in history in terms of reducing disease and preventable deaths. Soaps and detergents are pre-petroleum-era products that will continue to be made as long as any kind of human civilization is present. You can make prudent reductions in the quantities of detergents used, and the frequency of clothes washing and showers, while still maintaining good cleanliness; but going beyond that point is taking needless risks.

[Heineken]

I've been washing dishes by hand all my (long) life, gg3. I'm opposed to automatic dishwashers on principle. Simpler is ALWAYS better, and for many reasons the world desperately needs fewer, not more, of such electrical contraptions. Also, the fewer the appliances, the more independent we become from greedy plumbers etc.

I'm dubious that an automatic dishwasher uses less water than I do to wash an equivalent load, but I'm willing to accept that it may be possible.

I don't skimp on dishwashing liquid, but the total amount used per sinkful of dishes is trivial nonetheless.

When washing dishes by hand---particularly in a college dorm!---many other factors than just the amount of dishwashing liquid determine whether you get a result that won't make you sick.

I think our society and its corporate masters have taken "cleanliness" to ridiculous extremes that may actually be harmful to our health in the long run, such as by promoting antimicrobial resistance, desiccated skin, allergies, and high body burdens of potentially harmful synthetic chemicals. These too are important health issues.

You seem to equate not using laundry detergent with "filthy clothing," but my experience is otherwise. As I have stated repeatedly here, and as some others have corroborated, washing in cold water and drying on a line in the sun and wind results in perfectly clean clothes by any reasonable standards. And I have high standards of hygiene.

Soaps and detergents may be pre-petroleum era products, but I suspect that 99% of the stuff on shelves today bears little resemblance to the home-made soaps of yore.

Yes, use soap, be clean within reason, but . . . bottom line inasmuch as this forum is concerned . . . laundry detergent is totally unnecessary. It's an affectation, not a need.

[Laurasia]

What ever happened to Borax?

I recall many years ago there was a detergent which had borax in it. There was this commercial of a long wagon team hauling the stuff across some salt flats in the US.

Is borax such good stuff?

I think it is pretty gentle, a bleach substitute. I may be utterly wrong on that, however - as I am basing it in part on my impressions of Boracic Acid, which is gentle enough to bathe the eyes, I believe. A lady at work told me that farmers in her family used to bathe their cattle's eyes in boracic acid to treat conjunctivitis, and I've heard that people used to use it for the same thing.

I think I'd better go and find out about that! I'd hate to have a bunch of Peak Oilers with burned out eyes! So don't try without adult supervision.

Regards,

L.

[Laurasia]

Jeeeeez! I looked up Boracic acid, (boric acid, whatever) and half the posts say it's okay and half say DO NOT GET INTO THE EYES! So I guess it's a case of "err on the side of caution". Wish I hadn't made my previous post now.

Regards,

L.

[nwildmand]

I think our society and its corporate masters have taken "cleanliness" to ridiculous extremes that may actually be harmful to our health in the long run, such as by promoting antimicrobial resistance, desiccated skin, allergies, and high body burdens of potentially harmful synthetic chemicals. These too are important health issues.

im in total agreement. our "corporate masters" have shamed us into thinking we will be "dirty" if we dont buy their product. what they infact have done is created generations of people that get sick just by touching their mail. their immune systems are crippled from not having to deal with germs and when the germs evolve from all that shit (which they always do) their crippled immune systems cant handle it. so what do they do then? yep get a prescription for that new superantibiotic that they will fail to use right anyway.

its a vicious cycle.

i will never use antibiotics unless im on my death bed. i will never buy an anti bacterial soap or cleaner. hell when i get a cut on my dirty hands i dont even wash them, i just put some electrical tape on the wound so i can keep on working.

all one has to do is look at hospitals and staph and realize what we have done in our homes.

sorry gg3, but ive thought you to be a germaphobe?sp for about 6 months now. i believe all one needs to do is not shit where you eat, know proper food preparation and have a clean source of water and 99% of germ problems will go away.

be honest how many antibacterial soapscleaners do you have in your house (which i bet dollars to diamonds is spotless)?

i have one for my beermaking and thats it.

we have only know about germ theory for about 130 years and before that people lived to ripe old ages just as they do now. sure our life expectancy has risen dramaticaly but i suspect it is more due to nutrition, medical advances, safer working conditions and infrastructure ie water and sewer than washing your hands.

i never get sick, i believe it is because i do not hide from or fear the germs.

[threadbear]

I think our society and its corporate masters have taken "cleanliness" to ridiculous extremes that may actually be harmful to our health in the long run, such as by promoting antimicrobial resistance, desiccated skin, allergies, and high body burdens of potentially harmful synthetic chemicals. These too are important health issues.

hell when i get a cut on my dirty hands i dont even wash them, i just put some electrical tape on the wound so i can keep on working.

i never get sick, i believe it is because i do not hide from or fear the germs.

Real men like to strip down, jump in the mud, snort and wrestle with pigs as a means to toughen theirselves.

Make yourself impervyous to microbial varmints by takin' it up a notch. Why settle for being mildy unhigenic, when you can be downrat filthy? EEEEE-HHHAAAA!!