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Key oil figures were distorted by US pressure-whistleblower

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Re: Key oil figures were distorted by US pressure-whistleblower

Unread postby JPL » Thu 12 Nov 2009, 08:22:04

davep wrote:
I think this is just genuine investigative journalism.


I'd have to disagree there. Someone from the IEA contacted the Guardian just prior to the publication of the 2009 World Energy Outlook. They got corroboration from an ex-colleague and printed the sto

The guardian then rushed out the story before the report was published.

This could easily be something stage-managed. I'm not saying it is, but it is most definitely not investigative journalism.



OK fair point but it still looks like the free press at work to me. This is the biggest story since Hitler crossed the Rhine, remember. I'm sure the authorities would have managed it better than that. 8)

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Re: Key oil figures were distorted by US pressure-whistleblower

Unread postby JPL » Thu 12 Nov 2009, 08:27:24

rangerone314 wrote:105 mil/bbl by 2030?

I do wonder what they project in between now and then, like for 2020, and for 2012 and 2016...


No room at table for ChIndia, that's basically what they're projecting. If there is a 'PTB' agenda here, that's it, staring us in the face. Can't say we weren't warned...

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Re: Key oil figures were distorted by US pressure-whistleblower

Unread postby davep » Thu 12 Nov 2009, 08:28:50

JPL wrote:This is the biggest story since Hitler crossed the Rhine


And I broke it on Peakoil.com :-D

I'll be boring my grand-children with that each time they wind up the computer to get on the internet. [smilie=XXjester.gif]
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Re: Key oil figures were distorted by US pressure-whistleblower

Unread postby JPL » Thu 12 Nov 2009, 08:32:31

davep wrote:
JPL wrote:This is the biggest story since Hitler crossed the Rhine


And I broke it on Peakoil.com :-D


LOL and I thought the men in black limos told you to...

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Re: Key oil figures were distorted by US pressure-whistleblower

Unread postby davep » Thu 12 Nov 2009, 08:34:38

JPL wrote:
davep wrote:
JPL wrote:This is the biggest story since Hitler crossed the Rhine


And I broke it on Peakoil.com :-D


LOL and I thought the men in black limos told you to...

JP


Funnily enough, I was at the doomstead last weekend and two military-looking black helicopters came in really low towards the house. I was cacking myself for some reason. Then they... kept on going.
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Re: Key oil figures were distorted by US pressure-whistleblower

Unread postby Jotapay » Thu 12 Nov 2009, 09:44:45

JPL wrote:I don't loose sleep worrying that the carbon police might come to knock my door down one day. I don't think any major country has these plans in place - right or wrong - to 'manage' us off carbon. Again, increasing political schizophrenia seems to be the order of the day.


The Cap and Trade legislation that is currently in the United States House of Representatives mandates that every town have three federal employees who are environmental regulators/inspectors. They will be tasked with inspecting your house and issuing fines for violations. You also must pay for the inspection. If you continue to "unlawfully habitate" your home (the bill's words), you can be fined a certain amount of dollars every day.

This is what the bill actually says. Reading text on a page does not constitute schizophrenia. It's amazing how reading your own government's legislative bills can be labeled as a mental illness in today's bizarro world. I was watching representatives debate the bill on the House floor on C-SPAN and one was reading from the bill, stating the above. I can try and find the exact text, if you like.
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Re: IEA Whistleblower Says Oil Reserves Numbers Manipulated

Unread postby deMolay » Thu 12 Nov 2009, 09:49:20

Article cites claims supporting the whistleblower. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-in ... le1360337/
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Re: Key oil figures were distorted by US pressure-whistleblower

Unread postby Maddog78 » Thu 12 Nov 2009, 09:52:12

Jotapay wrote:The Cap and Trade legislation that is currently in the United States House of Representatives mandates that every town have three federal employees who are environmental regulators/inspectors. They will be tasked with inspecting your house and issuing fines for violations. You also must pay for the inspection. If you continue to "unlawfully habitate" your home (the bill's words), you can be fined a certain amount of dollars every day.



8O If something like this passes in the U.S. the copycats in Ottawa will most likely lay something like this on us.
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Re: Key oil figures were distorted by US pressure-whistleblower

Unread postby rangerone314 » Thu 12 Nov 2009, 09:55:27

davep wrote:
JPL wrote:
davep wrote:
JPL wrote:This is the biggest story since Hitler crossed the Rhine


And I broke it on Peakoil.com :-D


LOL and I thought the men in black limos told you to...

JP


Funnily enough, I was at the doomstead last weekend and two military-looking black helicopters came in really low towards the house. I was cacking myself for some reason. Then they... kept on going.

They were my friends and future warlords... err business associates surveying their future domain.
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Re: IEA Whistleblower Says Oil Reserves Numbers Manipulated

Unread postby davep » Thu 12 Nov 2009, 10:04:39

Mods, can you merge these johnny-come-latelys into my thread? :badgrin:
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Re: IEA Whistleblower Says Oil Reserves Numbers Manipulated

Unread postby MD » Thu 12 Nov 2009, 10:06:59

davep wrote:Mods, can you merge these johnny-come-latelys into my thread? :badgrin:


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Re: Key oil figures were distorted by US pressure-whistleblower

Unread postby JPL » Thu 12 Nov 2009, 12:20:43

Jotapay wrote:
JPL wrote:I don't loose sleep worrying that the carbon police might come to knock my door down one day. I don't think any major country has these plans in place - right or wrong - to 'manage' us off carbon. Again, increasing political schizophrenia seems to be the order of the day.


The Cap and Trade legislation that is currently in the United States House of Representatives mandates that every town have three federal employees who are environmental regulators/inspectors. They will be tasked with inspecting your house and issuing fines for violations. You also must pay for the inspection. If you continue to "unlawfully habitate" your home (the bill's words), you can be fined a certain amount of dollars every day.

This is what the bill actually says. Reading text on a page does not constitute schizophrenia. It's amazing how reading your own government's legislative bills can be labeled as a mental illness in today's bizarro world. I was watching representatives debate the bill on the House floor on C-SPAN and one was reading from the bill, stating the above. I can try and find the exact text, if you like.


Yea, I'd be interested to read that.

On the part of the UK government I can definitely say that schizophrenia is the order of the day. I was watching the 'Energy and Climate Change Secretary' (sic) Ed Milliban interviewed on TV a few days ago - every time he mentioned the word coal he prefixed it with the word 'clean' and stared hopefully at the camera. Apparently burning coal will now be good for the environment. The poor man has clearly gone mad. Interview's here, if anyone's interested:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00nxbm3

edit: (interview starts at 8.40 min)

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Last edited by JPL on Thu 12 Nov 2009, 13:07:12, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Key oil figures were distorted by US pressure-whistleblower

Unread postby Jotapay » Thu 12 Nov 2009, 12:27:48

JPL wrote:On the part of the UK government I can definitely say that schizophrenia is the order of the day. I was watching the 'Energy and Climate Change Secretary' (sic) Ed Milliban interviewed on TV a few days ago - every time he mentioned the word coal he prefixed it with the word 'clean' and stared hopefully at the camera. Apparently burning coal will now be good for the environment. The poor man has clearly gone mad. Interview's here, if anyone's interested:


Don't get me started about your country. I can't believe it's slid into the nanny-state where everyone spies on each other and you can be ticketed for using banned words. I'm mostly of Welsh and Scottish stock, so it pains me to see that.

I'll search for the exact text the representative was referring to during breaks between programming today.
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Re: Key oil figures were distorted by US pressure-whistleblower

Unread postby mos6507 » Thu 12 Nov 2009, 13:09:23

Jotapay wrote:The Cap and Trade legislation that is currently in the United States House of Representatives mandates that every town have three federal employees who are environmental regulators/inspectors. They will be tasked with inspecting your house and issuing fines for violations. You also must pay for the inspection. If you continue to "unlawfully habitate" your home (the bill's words), you can be fined a certain amount of dollars every day.


Why is it that half of the thrust of this site is slamming sheeple for their Hummers and McMansions and the other half is spent fearmongering that TPTB will start micromanaging our consumption like some kind of Sarah Palin talking point? You simply can't have it both ways. Considering tragedy of the commons, jevon's paradox, etc... people will not powerdown until some force compels them to. As I said before, that usually involves the frog boiling in the pot. In this case, that means everybody boils in climate change, etc.... Therefore if we're all in this together, the idea that we should be allowed to individually consume with impunity as an inalienable human right is an illusion. At some point we have an obligation to restrain our consumption or Gaia will do the dirty work for us. To think otherwise is to keep one foot firmly planted in the realm of BAU, or the age of exhuberance in which there are no limits to growth, the invisible hand will take car of things, etc....

Any approach to dealing with this problem through preaching what is right and wrong to people is doomed to fail because overconsumption is part of the human condition. You'll never get enough voluntary buy-off on intentional austerity, contraception, etc... to mitigate the problem. You're therefore left with "statist" sticks. Either you wield them or you let things just unravel on their own, which will be very messy.

So this overemphasis on impinging on personal liberties I feel totally misses the boat on the larger issues of how people, left to their own devices, are pushing the planet into a mass extinction. I really don't think letting people burn through a tank of fuel oil a day to warm their uninsulated McMansions on the basis of absolute freedom is worth fighting for.

To frame the problem as primarily top-down corruption rather than also a collective failure of individual choices is fatally flawed.

Some people, presumably, would much rather hold onto their freedoms at the expense of any hopes of a controlled energy descent. To me that is an unacceptable tradeoff.
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Re: Key oil figures were distorted by US pressure-whistleblower

Unread postby davep » Thu 12 Nov 2009, 13:16:37

Mos, what worries me about a top-down model is the inevitability of the Government pandering more to corporate interests than those of the populace. It's a hard habit to break.
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Re: Key oil figures were distorted by US pressure-whistleblower

Unread postby mos6507 » Thu 12 Nov 2009, 13:22:08

davep wrote:Mos, what worries me about a top-down model is the inevitability of the Government pandering more to corporate interests than those of the populace. It's a hard habit to break.


But in the end one has to endorse something, damn it. Being critical of any and every approach to dealing with the problem only leads to paralysis, and the default train wreck.
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Re: Key oil figures were distorted by US pressure-whistleblower

Unread postby JPL » Thu 12 Nov 2009, 13:25:57

Jotapay wrote:
Don't get me started about your country. I can't believe it's slid into the nanny-state where everyone spies on each other and you can be ticketed for using banned words. I'm mostly of Welsh and Scottish stock, so it pains me to see that.
.


He heh well said you also forgot the lousy food and the weather...

Don't worry about the quote if it's not to hand.

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Re: Key oil figures were distorted by US pressure-whistleblower

Unread postby davep » Thu 12 Nov 2009, 13:32:19

mos6507 wrote:
davep wrote:Mos, what worries me about a top-down model is the inevitability of the Government pandering more to corporate interests than those of the populace. It's a hard habit to break.


But in the end one has to endorse something, damn it. Being critical of any and every approach to dealing with the problem only leads to paralysis, and the default train wreck.


I agree entirely. I just feel we need to be on our guard against potential abuses. Whether we can actually do anything about them is another thing entirely.
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Re: Key oil figures were distorted by US pressure-whistleblower

Unread postby Jotapay » Thu 12 Nov 2009, 13:55:05

JPL wrote:Yea, I'd be interested to read that.


http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtex ... =h111-2454

Text of H.R. 2454: American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009


Section requiring three environmental inspectors/enforcers per town (population area):

SEC. 207. COMMUNITY BUILDING CODE ADMINISTRATION GRANTS.
(c)(2) ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENT- Each building code enforcement department receiving a grant under subsection (a) shall empanel a code administration and enforcement team consisting of at least 1 full-time building code enforcement officer, a city planner, and a health planner or similar officer.


The Feds will charge you for inspecting your home:

SEC. 201. GREATER ENERGY EFFICIENCY IN BUILDING CODES.
Section 304 of the Energy Conservation and Production Act (42 U.S.C. 6833) is amended to read as follows:
SEC. 304. GREATER ENERGY EFFICIENCY IN BUILDING CODES.

(f)(3) The Secretary may set and collect reasonable inspection
fees to cover the costs of inspections required for such
enforcement Revenue from fees collected shall be available to
the Secretary to carry out the requirements of this sect on upon
appropriation.



Federal fines every day you unlawfully occupy your own home:

‘‘BUILDING CODES.—
(g) ENFORCEMENT PROCEDURES.—(1) The Secretary shall assess a civil penalty for violations of this section, pursuant to subsection (d)(3), in accordance with the procedures described in section 333(d) of the Energy Policy and Conservation Act (42 U.S.C. 6303). The United States district courts shall also have jurisdiction to restrain any violation of this section or rules adopted thereunder, in accordance with the procedures described in section 334 of the Energy Policy and Conservation Act (42 U.S.C. 6304).
(2) Each day of unlawful occupancy shall be considered a separate violation.


You can learn a lot of these things by watching the recent documentary, Fall of the Republic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebOTc-7shU
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