NEW! Members Only Forums!

Access more articles, news & discussion by becoming a PeakOil.com Member.
Register Today...
It's FREE!


Login



Peak Oil is You


Donate Bitcoins :-)


Key oil figures were distorted by US pressure-whistleblower

Discuss specific research and forecasts.

Moderator: Pops

Re: Key oil figures were distorted by US pressure-whistleblower

Unread postby mos6507 » Tue 10 Nov 2009, 15:46:21

davep wrote:There's nothing in there that hasn't already been discussed on this thread, but as you say, it's the MSM.


The doomer echo-chamber stuff you see on TOD, countercurrents, energybulletin, etc... only preach to the converted. When this stuff bubbles up into the MSM, it matters.

Of course, I thought Earth 2100, Incredible Journey of Crude, Home, etc... all mattered and how much impact did it have? But at the very least, it's more fodder for my "Look, man, I'm not really crazy" news clippings collection.
User avatar
mos6507
Master
Master
 
Posts: 9505
Joined: Fri 03 Aug 2007, 02:00:00
Location: Boston Suburbs

Re: Key oil figures were distorted by US pressure-whistleblower

Unread postby davep » Tue 10 Nov 2009, 15:46:35

Jotapay wrote:I can't believe this. I've never seen Time cover a story this fast before, especially one that is so fringe as Peak Oil. This was no whistleblower. It was planned.

Agreed. They tied in the various elements quite well, rather than just pumping out a press release.

As I said earlier, this was a leak more than a whistleblower.
What we think, we become.
User avatar
davep
Senior Moderator
Senior Moderator
 
Posts: 3324
Joined: Wed 21 Jun 2006, 02:00:00
Location: Europe

Re: Key oil figures were distorted by US pressure-whistleblower

Unread postby davep » Tue 10 Nov 2009, 15:48:13

mos6507 wrote:
davep wrote:There's nothing in there that hasn't already been discussed on this thread, but as you say, it's the MSM.


The doomer echo-chamber stuff you see on TOD, countercurrents, energybulletin, etc... only preach to the converted. When this stuff bubbles up into the MSM, it matters.

Of course, I thought Earth 2100, Incredible Journey of Crude, Home, etc... all mattered and how much impact did it have? But at the very least, it's more fodder for my "Look, man, I'm not really crazy" news clippings collection.

Arf! Fair enough, but I did amend my post to include the Guardian and Reuters (there's also the FT and no doubt many others who are now joining the dots).
What we think, we become.
User avatar
davep
Senior Moderator
Senior Moderator
 
Posts: 3324
Joined: Wed 21 Jun 2006, 02:00:00
Location: Europe

Re: Key oil figures were distorted by US pressure-whistleblower

Unread postby mos6507 » Tue 10 Nov 2009, 15:59:57

Jotapay wrote:I can't believe this. I've never seen Time cover a story this fast before, especially one that is so fringe as Peak Oil. This was no whistleblower. It was planned.


The IEA report comes out at the same time each year. You're telling me Time wasn't otherwise going to write about it considering the Fatih Birol 2020 bombshell earlier this year?

Here is the author's profile. Care to email her and ask her pointedly if she's acting as a mouthpiece for TPTB?

I dare ya. I double-dare ya.
Last edited by mos6507 on Tue 10 Nov 2009, 16:03:04, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
mos6507
Master
Master
 
Posts: 9505
Joined: Fri 03 Aug 2007, 02:00:00
Location: Boston Suburbs

Re: Key oil figures were distorted by US pressure-whistleblower

Unread postby rangerone314 » Tue 10 Nov 2009, 16:02:00

Recently bought Fallout 3 Game of the Year edition (I usually wait on most games when they get the bugs out & have more mods etc).

Looks more and more like good training for the future, LOL!

With leaks like that I am beginning to think I should try and push for food self-sufficiency in 4 years rather than 5.
An ideology is by definition not a search for TRUTH-but a search for PROOF that its point of view is right

Equals barter and negotiate-people with power just take

You cant defend freedom by eliminating it-unknown

Our elected reps should wear sponsor patches on their suits so we know who they represent-like Nascar-Roy
User avatar
rangerone314
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 4051
Joined: Wed 03 Dec 2008, 03:00:00
Location: Maryland

Re: Key oil figures were distorted by US pressure-whistleblower

Unread postby Quinny » Tue 10 Nov 2009, 16:17:06

The report is scary in itself, if the wb is saying it's over-optimistic, we're in for some very difficult times in the near future.
Live, Love, Learn, Leave Legacy.....oh and have a Laugh while you're doing it!
User avatar
Quinny
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 2050
Joined: Thu 03 Jul 2008, 02:00:00

Re: Key oil figures were distorted by US pressure-whistleblower

Unread postby Jotapay » Tue 10 Nov 2009, 16:21:43

mos6507 wrote:I dare ya. I double-dare ya.


Triple dog dare me.
Jotapay
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 3394
Joined: Sat 21 Jun 2008, 02:00:00

Re: Key oil figures were distorted by US pressure-whistleblower

Unread postby Dr. Ofellati » Tue 10 Nov 2009, 17:16:09

mos6507 wrote:MSM doomer porn alert.

TIME MAGAZINE

Peak oil.

It's baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack.


Well, Dave P, I'd say your analysis is spot on. Why else would an energy agency call out global warming? It's a great cover, and, as Mos linked above, the brainwashing has already begun.

In the Time [I loath Time] article, the climate change cult claims . . .

If the world continues to guzzle oil and gas at its present pace, global temperatures will rise by an average of 6°C by 2030


Oh lawdy lawd lawd. 6 degrees CELCIUS by 2030!!! That's 10 degrees for all you Americans out there. That's 1 degree every 2 years!!

And this, after we had the 3rd coldest October in recorded history.

Lawdy lawd lawd, the Cult is in full bloom today.

Dave P, again, must respect from me - good analysis.

I always thought the cover would be a false flag terrorist attack on the KSA. Strikes me that such a FF op would be a perfect way to 1. Explain the production declines and 2. Drum up support for even more "war" on "terrorists."
Dr. O
The Mos theorem - Those who do not reach my conclusions after having reviewed the evidence are either deniers, if they reject my conclusion, or conspiracy theorists, if I reject theirs.
User avatar
Dr. Ofellati
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 236
Joined: Thu 22 Oct 2009, 11:26:37

Re: Key oil figures were distorted by US pressure-whistleblower

Unread postby kpeavey » Tue 10 Nov 2009, 18:07:39

Mos-Good catch on that Time article

For a journalist to write such a concise article in just a few hours from the Guardian report shows amazing insight, dare I say, the kind of insight not seen since the Dallas Police captured Oswald in the movie theater. In case you missed the profile link mos posted, her profile credits her as a "seasoned foreign correspondent."

This is not a leak by disgruntled scientists or executives. This is a planned presentation.

In order to arrest BAU and head down the path required to forestall self destruction in the time available, a sharp change in the way we use energy and resources is needed, or as Dr O would say, an Inflection Point.

I mentioned earlier that a critical climate report should show up in the next few weeks. I forgot about the Copenhagen conference. Out of this conference will come the critical Climate Change Documentation and agreement that will forever be changing our lives. The debate over climate change is dead. Whether or not we are changing the climate is unimportant. Officially, Climate Change is the enemy and we have to defeat it at all costs.

We've known all along that the government had a plan. We've been putting together the pieces as best we could with the information available. We've known the govt/TPTB could not talk about Peak Oil in the mainstream because it would bring panic, revolt, collapse and crisis to all parts of the globe and pose an obstacle to mitigation strategies. The govts/TPTB did well in covering their arses and holding things together while they formulated their plan. Now that the pieces are in place, they can present it to the world.


We're Here, We're Peak Oil, Get Used To Us!
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--for ever."
-George Orwell, 1984
_____

twenty centuries of stony sleep were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle, and what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
-George Yeats
User avatar
kpeavey
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 1670
Joined: Mon 04 Oct 2004, 02:00:00

Re: Key oil figures were distorted by US pressure-whistleblower

Unread postby mos6507 » Tue 10 Nov 2009, 19:04:27

kpeavey wrote:We've known all along that the government had a plan.


I think any riffing on the-big-bad-PTB is a distraction from the actual problem. TPTB dissolving overnight in favor of whatever -ism you'd like to take over will not eliminate the problems we face. So I suggest everyone get their priorities in order.
User avatar
mos6507
Master
Master
 
Posts: 9505
Joined: Fri 03 Aug 2007, 02:00:00
Location: Boston Suburbs

Re: Key oil figures were distorted by US pressure-whistleblower

Unread postby shortonsense » Tue 10 Nov 2009, 19:11:11

Dr. Ofellati wrote:
shortonsense wrote:Don't be silly, oil has been depleting for better than a century now. It didn't just suddenly START, how do you think we managed to produce 50% of it already? By depleting it!

No need to play word games - production depleting - If you didn't understand that part of my post, you're not qualified to comment.


Which is why I noticed, certainly no one can claim that oil is suddenly depleting now whereas it hasn't been for a century. Now, production decline, perhaps that is what you were thinking of?

Production decline has also happened before, but it isn't a year over year effect, whereas depletion is. For example, we had a production decline for several years in the early 80's, and a peak, which was then reversed and production increased again. During this entire time, we were depleting our remaining oil.

I don't think its semantics, they are certainly different things.
User avatar
shortonsense
permanently banned
 
Posts: 3124
Joined: Sat 30 Aug 2008, 02:00:00

Re: Key oil figures were distorted by US pressure-whistleblower

Unread postby shortonsense » Tue 10 Nov 2009, 19:14:22

mcgowanjm wrote:And the European Train System is second to none.

When I can catch a sleeper with first class food service from
KC to NO, then I'll think the US has a chance.


Because of trains? Whats wrong with a bus? I've ridden across the country on a greyhound, and its quite reasonably priced...certainly doesn't require a train to go from KC to NO.
User avatar
shortonsense
permanently banned
 
Posts: 3124
Joined: Sat 30 Aug 2008, 02:00:00

Re: Key oil figures were distorted by US pressure-whistleblower

Unread postby Dr. Ofellati » Tue 10 Nov 2009, 21:27:21

kpeavey wrote:
This is not a leak by disgruntled scientists or executives. This is a planned presentation.




I think that your post, above, was very good. I think you've got it. The faux-journalist whores at Time were given the cheat sheet well in advance.
Dr. O
The Mos theorem - Those who do not reach my conclusions after having reviewed the evidence are either deniers, if they reject my conclusion, or conspiracy theorists, if I reject theirs.
User avatar
Dr. Ofellati
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 236
Joined: Thu 22 Oct 2009, 11:26:37

Re: Key oil figures were distorted by US pressure-whistleblower

Unread postby Revi » Tue 10 Nov 2009, 21:47:20

We heard nothing about peak oil for a while, since oil went back down again. Now it's creeping back into peoples' minds.

This article really made a big splash.
Deep in the mud and slime of things, even there, something sings.
User avatar
Revi
Master
Master
 
Posts: 5632
Joined: Mon 25 Apr 2005, 02:00:00
Location: Maine

Re: Key oil figures were distorted by US pressure-whistleblower

Unread postby mos6507 » Tue 10 Nov 2009, 21:57:48

Dr. Ofellati wrote:I think that your post, above, was very good. I think you've got it. The faux-journalist whores at Time were given the cheat sheet well in advance.


I'm sure she'll be glad to hear about your high opinions of her, since I emailed her and she actually wrote back. Then I replied with a link to this thread.

It's funny how we can bash peak oil denialist articles and then suddenly an article comes out that raises an alarm and people want to find malice in it.
User avatar
mos6507
Master
Master
 
Posts: 9505
Joined: Fri 03 Aug 2007, 02:00:00
Location: Boston Suburbs

IEA Whistleblower??? Interesting article!

Unread postby AirlinePilot » Wed 11 Nov 2009, 01:49:16

User avatar
AirlinePilot
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 4140
Joined: Tue 05 Apr 2005, 02:00:00
Location: South of Atlanta

Re: Key oil figures were distorted by US pressure-whistleblower

Unread postby davep » Wed 11 Nov 2009, 03:42:40

Fatih Birol has been back in touch with the Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/nov/10/iea-oil-forecasts-energy-poverty

He starts off with an odd call to get electricity into those worldwide homes that don't have it.

"It's not likely to happen unless there's a major international concerted effort by rich countries," Birol said. "We will start to push it on to the main agenda at Copenhagen."


Who needs, food? Give them electricity. I had guessed that the whole Copenhagen thing seemed a little bit too well tied in.

Birol will appeal for international support on the issue ahead of the Copenhagen summit when he delivers a speech at the UN in New York on 23 November.


His remit seems to be expanding by the day.

Concerning the Guardian's story:

The IEA responded today by publishing on its website a key chapter from last year's outlook report detailing how it estimates the decline in the rate of production from the world's largest oilfields. The information is normally only available to those who buy the entire report for €150 (£134).


How would producing a historical analysis in any way validate their future predictions, which are totally out of whack with the document? I'm not complaining though, it's a good document IMO.

The IEA's forecast of global oil supplies hitting 105m barrels in 2030 represents its "doomsday" scenario, which, it said, would result in catastrophic global warming and energy supplies becoming increasingly vulnerable to terrorists or accidents. This is based on Copenhagen failing to reach a deal that ensures a higher carbon price, which would make the consumption of fossil fuels such as oil and coal more expensive and encourage the use of low-carbon forms of energy such as renewables and nuclear instead.


These chaps have been coordinating with Governments prior to Copenhagen to shoehorn this onto the agenda. I'm sure of that.

Birol said: "The reason why we showed it is to say this is the way that we are going and we should not go there otherwise there will be an accident in terms of climate change and energy security. We do not want it to happen."


Energy security, eh? You mean we may risk not getting the energy we need? That the figures may in some way be optimistic? Is this a small admission that it's not just climate change here, that it may be something to do with availability of resources, of Peak Oil?

The IEA, set up to advise its 28 member countries, said that the alternative scenario would see oil consumption only increase slightly between now and 2030. This is based on countries agreeing at Copenhagen to stabilise the concentration of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere to 450 parts per million. This would give the world a 50% chance of limiting temperature increases to 2C, it said.


It would also help energy security, right?

He added that last summer's record $147 a barrel oil price had "traumatised" many developing countries into looking for less volatile and costly forms of energy. Birol said oil prices, which had since fallen back to about $80, would continue to be volatile and would rise over the long term.


Surely if we choose the 450 path, supply will outstrip demand and prices will fall? :roll:
What we think, we become.
User avatar
davep
Senior Moderator
Senior Moderator
 
Posts: 3324
Joined: Wed 21 Jun 2006, 02:00:00
Location: Europe

Re: Key oil figures were distorted by US pressure-whistleblower

Unread postby davep » Wed 11 Nov 2009, 03:50:43

The Guardian are now basically saying the same thing as us:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cif-green/2009/nov/10/peak-oil-fear-economic-establishment

Too fearful to publicise peak oil reality

The economic establishment accepts the world soon won't be able to meet energy demands, but wants to keep quiet about it

It is very hard for the average person in the street to come to a sensible conclusion on peak oil. It's a subject that prompts a passionate polarisation of views. The peak oilists sometimes sound like those extraordinary Christians with sandwich boards proclaiming that the end of the world is nigh. In contrast, the the international economic establishment – including the International Energy Agency (IEA) – has one very clear purpose in mind at all times: don't panic. Their mission seems to be focused on keeping jittery markets calm.

Faced with these options the majority of people shrug their shoulders in confusion and ignore the trickle of whistleblowers, industry insiders and careful analysts who have been warning of the imminent decline in oil for over a decade now.

Remember the Queen's question – that uncannily accurate and strikingly obvious question she put to economists at the London School of Economics a year ago after the financial crisis: did no one see it coming? Apply that question to peak oil and the answer is that many people did see it coming but they were marginalised, bullied into silence and the evidence was buried in the small print.

Take the 2008 edition of World Energy Outlook, the annual report on which the entire energy industry and governments depend. It included the table also published by the Guardian today, and the version I saw had shorter intervals on the horizontal axis. What it made blindingly clear was that peak oil was somewhere in 2008/9 and that production from currently producing fields was about to drop off a cliff. Fields yet to be developed and yet to be found enabled a plateau of production and it was only "non-conventional oil" which enabled a small rise. Think tar sands of Canada, think some of the most climate polluting oil extraction methods available. Think catastrophe.

What made this little graph so devastating was that it estimated energy resources by 2030 that were woefully inadequate for the energy-hungry economies of India and China. Business as usual in oil production threatens massive conflict over sharing it.

Now, this all seemed pretty gigantic news to me but guess where the World Energy Outlook chose to put this graph? Was it in the front, was it prominently discussed in the foreword? Did it cause headlines around the world. No, no, no. It was buried deep into the report and no reference was made to it in the press conference a year ago.

The fear is that panicky markets can cause enormous damage – panic-buying that prompts fights over resources, which in turn could lead to power cuts in some places and other such mayhem. But so far in facing this huge challenge, our political/economic system seems unable to cope with reality. We are forced to carry on living in an illusion that we have so much time to adapt to post-oil that we don't even need to be talking or thinking much about what a world without plentiful oil would look like. Reality has become too dangerous.

So in reply to the Queen's question of a few years hence, we did see it coming but we chose to ignore it.
What we think, we become.
User avatar
davep
Senior Moderator
Senior Moderator
 
Posts: 3324
Joined: Wed 21 Jun 2006, 02:00:00
Location: Europe

Re: IEA Whistleblower??? Interesting article!

Unread postby davep » Wed 11 Nov 2009, 04:02:35

We've been discussing this in another thread since Monday!
What we think, we become.
User avatar
davep
Senior Moderator
Senior Moderator
 
Posts: 3324
Joined: Wed 21 Jun 2006, 02:00:00
Location: Europe

Holy sh*t batman !

Unread postby dukey » Wed 11 Nov 2009, 04:46:38

The world is much closer to running out of oil than official estimates admit, according to a whistleblower at the International Energy Agency who claims it has been deliberately underplaying a looming shortage for fear of triggering panic buying.

The senior official claims the US has played an influential role in encouraging the watchdog to underplay the rate of decline from existing oil fields while overplaying the chances of finding new reserves.

The allegations raise serious questions about the accuracy of the organisation's latest World Energy Outlook on oil demand and supply to be published tomorrow – which is used by the British and many other governments to help guide their wider energy and climate change policies.


it goes on

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... rgy-agency
[flash width=320 height=250]http://www.youtube.com/v/Iw_XDxnciGs&hl=en[/flash]
User avatar
dukey
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 2250
Joined: Sun 20 Feb 2005, 03:00:00

PreviousNext

Return to Peak oil studies, reports & models

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot] and 4 guests