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It's time to choke off the supply of fossil-death-fuels

Re: It's time to choke of the supply of fossil-death-fuels

Unread postby pstarr » Tue 10 Apr 2018, 12:20:15

ROCKMAN wrote:President Obama greatly favored ICE’s over EV’s

Of course he did/does. So do you. So does every poster on this web site; none really own an EV (contrary to mos/ennui/asgy/Adam's protestations to the contrary).

EV's are some kind of cheap ointment or salve on our self-inflicted wounds. We should all man/woman up and admit that designing the United States around private automobile ownership was and remains . . . insane. We knew better. Then.
The General Motors streetcar conspiracy refers to convictions of General Motors (GM) and other companies for monopolizing the sale of buses and supplies to National City Lines (NCL) and its subsidiaries, and to allegations that this was part of a deliberate plot to purchase and dismantle streetcar systems in many cities in the United States as an attempt to monopolize surface transportation.
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Re: It's time to choke of the supply of fossil-death-fuels

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Tue 10 Apr 2018, 12:38:52

Pete, I'll remind you that we have problems here in California because a quarter of the country's people live here. Maybe you can actually forget that behind the Redwood Curtain, but the haze I see out my windows is smog, not maryjane smoke.

Recall that the SF Bay Area has SMART, BART, CALTRAIN, AMTRACK, and SCVTA Light Rail, as well as a half-dozen urban bus systems, and still has traffic gridlocks.

Worst of all, we have more than a quarter of the country's homeless. This is just not a nice place to live anymore because of that, as well as the overcrowding, the empty-headed politics, and Moonbeam and Feinstein and Harris.
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Re: It's time to choke of the supply of fossil-death-fuels

Unread postby pstarr » Tue 10 Apr 2018, 12:43:49

KaiserJeep wrote:Pete, I'll remind you that we have problems here in California because a quarter of the country's people live here. Maybe you can actually forget that behind the Redwood Curtain, but the haze I see out my windows is smog, not maryjane smoke.

Yup, General Motors and the rest prevailed. We lost. It's why I moved up here, but I have to tell you . . . since I moved here 20 years ago this place has also turned into the occasional parking lot.

But I still have my backwood routes around the sprawl lol
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Re: It's time to choke of the supply of fossil-death-fuels

Unread postby GHung » Thu 12 Apr 2018, 08:22:39

New Zealand may have just killed its oil industry

New Zealand has stunned the energy industry by slapping a new cap on drilling for oil and gas in its waters as part of efforts to combat climate change.

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern announced Thursday that the government will "no longer be granting any new offshore oil and gas exploration permits."

"This is another step on our transition away from fossil fuels and towards a carbon neutral economy," Ardern said in a speech.

The country's oil industry quickly voiced its anger over the move. ....

http://money.cnn.com/2018/04/12/news/co ... index.html
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Re: It's time to choke of the supply of fossil-death-fuels

Unread postby Revi » Thu 12 Apr 2018, 08:42:11

I think it may be a good idea to hold on to the easily accessible fuels for when the car culture goes away. Then what's left can be used for sensible things like forestry and agriculture. Unfortunately the last trillion barrels will be used in a fiesta of foolishness. Flying around the world to the latest Disney resort, etc.
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Re: It's time to choke of the supply of fossil-death-fuels

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Thu 12 Apr 2018, 10:20:27

Revi - "I think it may be a good idea to hold on to the easily accessible fuels for when the car culture goes away." I have to respectfully disagree, buddy. We can burn all we want the supply long as begin "choking" of some the consumption immediate. Such as stop shipping any motor fuel to Maine next week. LOL.
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Re: It's time to choke of the supply of fossil-death-fuels

Unread postby pstarr » Thu 12 Apr 2018, 10:35:43

ROCKMAN wrote:We can burn all we want the supply long as begin "choking" of some the consumption immediate. LOL.

Would you please run that through the sober translator?

Tnx in advance :)
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Re: It's time to choke of the supply of fossil-death-fuels

Unread postby energy investor » Thu 12 Apr 2018, 18:39:04

Hi Ghung,

I remember in 1955 when as a child I first noticed the production of oil and gas in New Plymouth. The product that was produced was called "Peak Petrol" after Mt. Egmont that loomed over the city.

There have been several times since then when the oil extraction industry in New Zealand has been presumed dead, yet it is still there. Governments come and Governments go and I think the reports of the Government's attempt to shut down the industry may fall into the category of "This too shall pass".

Although my energy investments are 90% renewables, it is clearly not time to choke off oil, gas and coal, until we have replacements. Sure, the sooner we can make the transition, the better. But we ain't there yet.

Look at the mess the Germans are in after their huge investments in renewables.

The approach to a transition needs to be supported by scalable technologies that are not yet available. Lithium-ion isn't yet scalable. Wind and solar are OK but grids cannot cope with a greater proportion until there is better energy storage.
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Re: It's time to choke of the supply of fossil-death-fuels

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Thu 12 Apr 2018, 18:52:55

energy investor wrote:Although my energy investments are 90% renewables, it is clearly not time to choke off oil, gas and coal, until we have replacements. Sure, the sooner we can make the transition, the better. But we ain't there yet.

Look at the mess the Germans are in after their huge investments in renewables.

The approach to a transition needs to be supported by scalable technologies that are not yet available. Lithium-ion isn't yet scalable. Wind and solar are OK but grids cannot cope with a greater proportion until there is better energy storage.

Yup. What both sides of the debate often miss is how huge the transition effort is, physically and economically. And thus, that it will likely take several decades.

Or that the way the global demand for energy grows as the global GDP grows, we really need to be open to utilizing all our sources of energy (opting for the cleanest and most economical reasonably available, when possible).

Sadly, both patience and good planning are things the vast majority of humans (and human groups) aren't too good at. I'll cite the state of the planet and humanity re continued BAU growth as my source for that. :cry:
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: It's time to choke of the supply of fossil-death-fuels

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Fri 13 Apr 2018, 13:59:58

Smart move by the Kiwi’s: saves those petroleum resources for the future. Of course, does nothing to help reduce climate change since they import much of their fossil fuel consumption. Which is why the country is close to its peak consumption. Producing oil produces very little GHG compared to burning refinery products. BTW current Kiwi coal consumption is greater than any time before 2002. And that’s thanks to coal imports of which there were essentially none prior to 2000. And then peaked at 1.4 million short tons in 2006. Which decreased due to high coal prices. And burning NG has been on a steady rise for the last 10 years.

https://www.indexmundi.com/energy/?coun ... onsumption

Bottom line: even with no new oil drilling NZ continues to produce much more GHG today then during most of its history. They have just been burning a lot more of someone else’s fossil fuels for much of the last 15 years.
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Re: It's time to choke of the supply of fossil-death-fuels

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Fri 13 Apr 2018, 14:58:05

Smart move by the Kiwi’s:


when there is virtually no remaining undiscovered reserves to be found there is obviously no harm in declaring a total moratorium on new E&P. In fact you might as well get some press out of the fact your options are limited.
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Re: It's time to choke of the supply of fossil-death-fuels

Unread postby StarvingLion » Sat 14 Apr 2018, 13:41:38

Revi wrote:I think it may be a good idea to hold on to the easily accessible fuels for when the car culture goes away. Then what's left can be used for sensible things like forestry and agriculture. Unfortunately the last trillion barrels will be used in a fiesta of foolishness. Flying around the world to the latest Disney resort, etc.


The only thing left after the car culture is drug trafficking fueling AK-47's, RPG's, and IED's because lack of fuel means this graphic exhibiting the Pump is now headed for immediate Dump.

Image
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Re: It's time to choke of the supply of fossil-death-fuels

Unread postby StarvingLion » Sat 14 Apr 2018, 13:47:21

Outcast_Searcher wrote:
energy investor wrote:Although my energy investments are 90% renewables, it is clearly not time to choke off oil, gas and coal, until we have replacements. Sure, the sooner we can make the transition, the better. But we ain't there yet.

Look at the mess the Germans are in after their huge investments in renewables.

The approach to a transition needs to be supported by scalable technologies that are not yet available. Lithium-ion isn't yet scalable. Wind and solar are OK but grids cannot cope with a greater proportion until there is better energy storage.

Yup. What both sides of the debate often miss is how huge the transition effort is, physically and economically. And thus, that it will likely take several decades.

Or that the way the global demand for energy grows as the global GDP grows, we really need to be open to utilizing all our sources of energy (opting for the cleanest and most economical reasonably available, when possible).

Sadly, both patience and good planning are things the vast majority of humans (and human groups) aren't too good at. I'll cite the state of the planet and humanity re continued BAU growth as my source for that. :cry:


Several decades? HAAHAHAHAHAHAHA...its already kaput. Bankrupting what keeps the lights on is the pathway to TOTAL COLLAPSE which is going to happen any day now. I don't how they are going to make till 2023 when the Shit Really Hits The Fan.

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/big-e ... 29308.html


Major gas and nuclear power plants may be ordered to cut back on production this summer – to make room for wind and solar.

The National Grid – which oversees the UK’s electricity generation network – said growing supply from smaller wind and solar farms that bypass the grid would see demand fall. “Increased supply and demand variability caused by these periods of low demand and high levels of renewable generation can create operability challenges,” it said. “As a result, we may need to take more actions to curtail generation and possibly instruct inflexible generators to reduce their output in order to balance the system.”
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Re: It's time to choke off the supply of fossil-death-fuels

Unread postby StarvingLion » Sat 14 Apr 2018, 14:20:14

Bring back The Romans and their aqueducts. A bath when the lights go out would be nice. These current SCUM from Harvard don't know what the xxxx they are doing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_aqueduct

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Re: It's time to choke off the supply of fossil-death-fuels

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 14 Apr 2018, 14:20:53

Well the Hirsh report is even more relevant now than when it first came out in 2005 because:
"Mitigation efforts will require substantial time.
Waiting until production peaks would leave the world with a liquid fuel deficit for 20 years.
Initiating a crash program 10 years before peaking leaves a liquid fuels shortfall of a decade.
Initiating a crash program 20 years before peaking could avoid a world liquid fuels shortfall."
Shale and LTO have been able to postpone the more pronounced effects of PO, by boosting supply. But, in accord with both the economics ,the capacity to maintain flow rates and the EROEI, this boost will be short lived and the crisis the Hirsh report spoke of will be upon us
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Re: It's time to choke off the supply of fossil-death-fuels

Unread postby StarvingLion » Sat 14 Apr 2018, 14:28:59

onlooker wrote:Well the Hirsh report is even more relevant now than when it first came out in 2005 because:
"Mitigation efforts will require substantial time.
Waiting until production peaks would leave the world with a liquid fuel deficit for 20 years.
Initiating a crash program 10 years before peaking leaves a liquid fuels shortfall of a decade.
Initiating a crash program 20 years before peaking could avoid a world liquid fuels shortfall."
Shale and LTO have been able to postpone the more pronounced effects of PO, by boosting supply. But, in accord with both the economics ,the capacity to maintain flow rates and the EROEI, this boost will be short lived and the crisis the Hirsh report spoke of will be upon us


Bankrupt America is all about the Amazing Quantum Computer to do innovation in design studios and suck up all the oil from the luddites....HAHAHAHAHAHA.

http://nanoscale.blogspot.ca/2018/04/ch ... build.html

Here is a comment from a disgruntled non-believer in all these bankrupt useless universities.

Anonymous Sylow said...

Quantum computation has been around for almost 30 years now and they still could not realize a three qubit system experimentally. It is amazing that people can still milk funding for this stuff...
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Re: It's time to choke off the supply of fossil-death-fuels

Unread postby pstarr » Sat 14 Apr 2018, 16:45:52

Watson finally beat a Grand Master at chess in 1997. And Jeopardy (it original mandate) in 2011. This of course is no big deal. Nothing since.

A computer has two abilities that humans don't; it can test an almost endless series of potential move-outcomes at high speeds. Rather than use a sophisticated (and mostly unknown/incomprehensible ) human pattern-matching strategies (based on past experience, understanding of the opponent etc) the computer relies on dumb fast hierarchical/recursive down-tree search and testing routines. No big deal.

Certainly not AI. Not nearly as smart as Bruno. My Big Cat knows where the gophers are, how their underground tunnels are evolving, when the little demons arise in the morning, and how to search out, hunt and destroy. Bruno would rip out Watson's wiring given the time. And all Watson could do is spark, smoke and sputter lol
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Re: It's time to choke off the supply of fossil-death-fuels

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 14 Apr 2018, 16:56:30

The singularity has always seemed to me quite impossible given that a computer is and cannot be more than the given set of instructions it was programmed with. Thus, it cannot of its own volition embark on any chosen path of inquiry or analysis. So, then how can it develop the bold leap into consciousness that allows it to think along a totally autonomous chosen train of thought
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Re: It's time to choke off the supply of fossil-death-fuels

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sat 14 Apr 2018, 18:09:35

Well, how did animals evolve consciousness? If you don't have a thorough and complete understanding of that, then you don't have the means to assess whether or not a computer can do the same.

Our digital tools are not slaves, they are not proto-minds, they are tools. Many tools now can function autonomously, without human oversight. Every time such and advance is made, we can do more with fewer materials and less power. Collectively, the human condition is improved.

The can gets kicked down the road. Digital circuitry was a good long kick, that will last a few more decades. I consider it the 4th wave of the Industrial Revolution:

1st Wave: About 1750 to 1830, wooden labor-saving machinery (looms, vehicles, printing press, agricultural machinery).
2nd Wave: 1830 to 1910, the age of iron and steel machinery.
3rd Wave: 1910 to 1980, fossil-fuelled machines and electricity.
4th Wave: 1980 to 20??, digital electronics.
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Re: It's time to choke off the supply of fossil-death-fuels

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 14 Apr 2018, 18:34:20

Well, how did animals evolve consciousness?

Well ordinarily, I would defer to you on this subject K, since you are the expert. However, per the statement above, are not the animals receiving their instructions internally from their DNA in interaction with the Enviroment and Darwinian evolutionary laws. However, this evolution was always happening as a fully independent organism. This contrary to a computer which depends on a continuous basis as of the present on external cues ie. programming. So it seems to be a big difference. No matter how complex the programming it does not allow the computer to veer from all these instructions. While a human can and does in keeping with its immense flexibility as a independently thinking and feeling being. Animals with their limited ability to think, problem solve and improvise would be more akin to computers in the sense we are discussing.
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