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It's the End of the World as We Know it

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: 'The end of the world' has already begun, UW scientists

Unread postby SeasonOfPain » Mon 31 Jul 2006, 21:38:04

Odin wrote:The hatred of one's own species oozing through this thread is pathetic.

Hatred? No.

Pity? Maybe.

Contempt? Definitely.

However, if I was of another species, I'd definitely be pissed. What in the world makes our species so special? What a bunch of self-important monkeys we are.

Odin wrote:I consider leaving this rock and colonizing the universe to be our destiny.

Oh great, the crap-flinging chimps are going to start carpetbagging. Better call Alpha Centauri, let them know their property rates are about to plummet. Damn dirty apes!
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Re: 'The end of the world' has already begun, UW scientists

Unread postby Heineken » Tue 01 Aug 2006, 10:30:59

Well said, SeasonOfPain. The anthropocentrists and Holy-Human-Rollers are increasingly laughable as this marvelous species trashes its own planet.
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The End of the World

Unread postby KevO » Sun 11 Feb 2007, 08:02:20

is the end of mind.

read this and weep
http://www.guardian.co.uk/frontpage/sto ... 29,00.html
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Re: The End of the World

Unread postby cynicalheretic » Sun 11 Feb 2007, 11:45:44

I think it's a great Idea. This will make it much easier for employers to tell which employees are going to work out and which won't

Also employers will be able to weed out the ones that smoke/Have too much sex/Don't worship God/Don't love Bush

We can get rid of these seconds class citizens. Oh, how great the future will be.
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Re: The End of the World

Unread postby Bas » Sun 11 Feb 2007, 11:49:19

how 'minority report'


If I was a conspiracy theorist I'd say the CIA has been using these techniques for decades and recently managed to get a sattelite into orbit doing just that :twisted:
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Re: The End of the World

Unread postby Free » Sun 11 Feb 2007, 12:12:11

I don't buy it, and like every apparently "ground-breaking" scientific study nowadays one should take it with a huge bag of salt.

Remember that the competition for funding is harsh and can only be won by sensationalist publications, big shows to tickle the imagination of the mostly unscientific audience.

Naturally, references to Minority report and such get good press play...

First of all, the processes in the brain, like everywhere in nature, are chaotic in their essence, and not so easily deterministic as it is suggested. 70 % forecasting is an impressive figure, but remember that it was in a controlled simplistic environment.

It's like making a superficial "cloud" and make it rain in a closed big room, and then say that one day we might forecast the weather with 100 % accuracy and even make it...
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Re: The End of the World

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Sun 11 Feb 2007, 12:39:36

Yet another psychoquackery fraud.
Suppose, someone is found 70% guilty, then he will get 70% of standard sentence.
If you are expected to commit a crime carrying a death penalty with 100/6% (~17%) chance of actually doing it, you will be invited to play Russian roulette...
I think entire adventure will go the way like recovered memories (of child abuse) / false memory syndrom does...means right to a dustbin.

NB. I had noticed, that psychoquacks are more and more calling themself neuroscientists. Sound better, right?
You know, they need all what other supersticial witches do...BIG magnet.
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Re: The End Of The World As We Know It

Unread postby Subjectivist » Thu 05 Dec 2013, 19:20:53

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/12 ... e-careful/

Sounds like things are getting shaky for the world economy!
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Re: The End Of The World As We Know It

Unread postby Subjectivist » Thu 05 Dec 2013, 19:26:33

Famed investor Jim Rodgers is predicting a disastrous scenario for the global economy. “Eventually, the whole world is going to collapse,” he told CBC in a recent interview.

Rodgers said “we in the West have staggering debts,” noting that the United States is the “largest debtor nation in the history of the world.”

“This is going to end badly,” he warned.

Zero Hedge breaks down Rodgers’ thoughts on the “commodity super-cycle” and increasing energy production through fracking:

However, the co-founder of Soros’ Quantum fund is convinced that the commodity super-cycle is far from over, but driven by supply constraints (and cost increases) as opposed to demand from higher growth. The following interview provides more color on his commodity view as he re-iterates his bullish stance on Ag (with sugar a focus) and Natural Gas (some harsh natural realities coming), warning “don’t get too excited about fracking,” when he talks energy products.

Rogers, in his inimitable way, sums up the state [of] euphoria that many markets find themselves in thus, “we are all floating around on a sea of artificial liquidity right now. This is not going to last.”

Rodgers went on to warn of the “next crisis,” which he predicted may occur in 2015 or 2016.

“The next correction when it comes, because the debt is so very high — you know, 2008 was worse than 2002 because the debt was so much higher. You wait until 2015 or 2016 when the next crisis hits… debt has gone through the roof, the next one’s gonna be really bad”

His advice: “Be prepared, be worried, and be careful.”


For some reason the quote didn't post with my earlier message so here it is.
II Chronicles 7:14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
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Re: The End Of The World As We Know It

Unread postby Pops » Sat 07 Dec 2013, 09:03:42

On the original topic I find that the "Super-Doomer" Laherrere was correct as far as an (at least) 10 year bumpy plateau in oil production. Luckily his prediction of a near term cliff in gas has been averted so far by fracking for shale and tight gas. Bigger increases in shale gas are required.

Oil has been declining in it's contribution to world primary energy since 1970 while gas' contribution has been constantly rising. That isn't to say that oil's value to the world has been declining. In fact, it is obvious from the price of oil that it's value has been increasing as gas and coal have replaced it as the primary source for electricity generation. Oil has been dedicated more and more to transportation in our increasingly transport oriented society. Oil, coal and gas can fire turbines and drive generators but it's hard to fuel Dreamliners on coal.

--
As for the Rogers part, I'm not sure what to make of all the QE except to say I think it's covering up real asset deflation caused by resource limits - "supply constraint" isn't a concept embraced by many 30-somethings, let alone by 30-something day traders, they like BAU buzzwords like "commodity supercycle".

BTW didn't you hear? The US unemployment rate is the lowest in 5 years, don't mind the fact that labor force participation is the lowest in 40 years. But look on the bright side, it's now easier to get into Harvard than on the payroll at Walmart - and those liars in the liberal media say there is no social mobility!
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
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Re: The End Of The World As We Know It

Unread postby dorlomin » Sat 07 Dec 2013, 11:16:01

I may be slightly off topic but I have always suspect that the "doom now" mindset is a psychological reaction to complexity and risk. Once topics become very complex, many peoples minds sort of short circuit their internal "mind models" of the world to a doom scenario. This happened a lot with Y2K, peak oil and is very evident in climate. A crushing slow decline has a huge number of variables and unexpected events to consider, while skipping all that and straight onto the zombie hoardes creates a simpler world to think about and plan for.

Off course I could be talking gubbins, who knows.
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Re:

Unread postby John_A » Sat 07 Dec 2013, 13:05:48

nigel wrote:On the same topic - postponed peak - I also offer this from ex- imminent Peak super-doomster LaHerrere which I have lifted from The Oil & Gas Journal forum dated 10/10/2003 04.58pm.

Now I find it's not PEAK OIL I should be concerned about but PEAK GAS!


oh just beautiful. The guy was clueless more than a decade ago.

Peak gas...what a maroon....
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Re: The End Of The World As We Know It

Unread postby John_A » Sat 07 Dec 2013, 13:10:23

dorlomin wrote:I may be slightly off topic but I have always suspect that the "doom now" mindset is a psychological reaction to complexity and risk.


I don't. I think it is related to fear of ones mortality.

Change is bad because it signifies an acceptance that one day, things will change enough and you will be DEAD. So rather than face the inevitable, these folks hide behind make believe fears of a different kind, staving off fantasy Doom...if only they had the bunker, the MREs, the ammo, the claymores to protect the doomstead..yes...then they can feel like they are DOING something to confront the change.

When in fact the change they are most afraid of is impossible to avoid, and not thinking about it is the key for their simple minded doom scenarios.

In fact, they have no more chance of surviving a real, known, completely possible, has happened before and will certainly happen again doom scenario than anyone else. Or escaping what they are really afraid of.

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Re: Re:

Unread postby Quinny » Sat 07 Dec 2013, 13:32:56

LMFAO :-D

John_A wrote:
nigel wrote:On the same topic - postponed peak - I also offer this from ex- imminent Peak super-doomster LaHerrere which I have lifted from The Oil & Gas Journal forum dated 10/10/2003 04.58pm.

Now I find it's not PEAK OIL I should be concerned about but PEAK GAS!


oh just beautiful. The guy was clueless more than a decade ago.

Peak gas...what a maroon....
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Re: The End Of The World As We Know It

Unread postby Lore » Sat 07 Dec 2013, 13:55:04

First of all, I'm not aware of any fast doomers, aka fast crashers left on here?

Saying that, there is really nothing at this point poised to stop the slow and ugly contraction of the human race. Of course this all ends up being different strokes for different folks. As time passes doom in Bangladesh will be just another among many inconvenient stories for people here in the US. That is until we're up at bat and so on and so forth.

It hasn't happened before, or its just too complicated and impossible to imagine doesn't mean much given what we do know about catastrophic events that are on the horizon. Something like extinction after all only has to happen once.

As I've said, people do things until they can't anymore. So, for many, it all looks just great and rosy on the surface now and they like to pretend it can always stay that way. We're not so different from most of the animals on the planet. Human's would rather live under the illusion that every day they too can go down to the watering hole and drink without ever getting caught by the lion in the bushes.
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Re: The End Of The World As We Know It

Unread postby John_A » Sat 07 Dec 2013, 16:59:32

Lore wrote:First of all, I'm not aware of any fast doomers, aka fast crashers left on here?


True. Reality did to them just as it did to TOD.

Lore wrote:Saying that, there is really nothing at this point poised to stop the slow and ugly contraction of the human race.


Well, only if you define what is going on as a slow and ugly contraction, certainly if humans are continuing to grow in population, still using more fossil fuels, still growing their economies, doing the same sorts of things they have been doing for the last couple decades, it is difficult to rewrite as a slow and ugly contraction.

Unless you live in Detroit and have myopia anyway, obviously location and lack of perspective can convince any single person that the world is ending because for them...it is.

Lore wrote:As I've said, people do things until they can't anymore.


Or don't want to. Or choose to change their behavior. A great advantage humans have over the rest of the species of the planet.

Lore wrote:So, for many, it all looks just great and rosy on the surface now and they like to pretend it can always stay that way.


And for some it looks all slow and ugly contraction and they can pretend it will always stay that way.


Lore wrote:We're not so different from most of the animals on the planet. Human's would rather live under the illusion that every day they too can go down to the watering hole and drink without ever getting caught by the lion in the bushes.


We are so different from the rest of the animals on the planet, we carry guns down to the watering hole to drink, build a guard shack always armed to make sure any lion dumb enough to try again, fails, build a dam so the water hole gets bigger and handles more people, drop in some water pipe and engines to pull water in from the other side of the mountains, then go for a desalinization plant by the ocean powered by nukes to make sure the pond never empties.

There is reason why lions aren't top of the food chain, in a food chain involving humans.
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Re: The End Of The World As We Know It

Unread postby Quinny » Sat 07 Dec 2013, 19:53:57

You're only making plans for nigel!
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Re: The End Of The World As We Know It

Unread postby Lore » Sat 07 Dec 2013, 20:32:14

John_A wrote:We are so different from the rest of the animals on the planet, we carry guns down to the watering hole to drink, build a guard shack always armed to make sure any lion dumb enough to try again, fails, build a dam so the water hole gets bigger and handles more people, drop in some water pipe and engines to pull water in from the other side of the mountains, then go for a desalinization plant by the ocean powered by nukes to make sure the pond never empties.

There is reason why lions aren't top of the food chain, in a food chain involving humans.


We're not different, maybe more deviant, but not different. Our instincts are as primitive and ruling as those of any beast that walks the face of the earth. Being able to manipulate things has been a two edge sword. Only ants and humans carry out warfare, which puts us in fairly low company, don't you think? I have a feeling though that ants will most likely win the war on longevity. Does that, in the end, make them the top of the food chain?

As for the watering hole, we've been there and done that. Now the people of India have to drill even deeper, where and when they can to find water. So much for the "green revolution" to support a nation in population overshoot. They will return once again to the great famines that checked their growth in previous centuries. Repeat that many times in the coming years across the globe.

Humans with all their supposed superiority cannot overcome the scarcity of resources they've created and the wreckage of the environment they are passing on to those that are left. Hell, many don't even recognize these problems exist. We are not smart! We're just better at digging our own graves is all.
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Re: The End Of The World As We Know It

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 07 Dec 2013, 21:23:45

I'm a quasi fast crusher. My belief is that it is likely at some point we will find a some critical linkage that takes us into a fast collapse financially.

We MAY be able to mitigate it or not.

But no predictions on when. That's why I hang here, keeping a weather eye turned for the storm.
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Re: The End Of The World As We Know It

Unread postby John_A » Sun 08 Dec 2013, 14:05:48

Lore wrote:
John_A wrote:There is reason why lions aren't top of the food chain, in a food chain involving humans.

Only ants and humans carry out warfare, which puts us in fairly low company, don't you think?


Unique company. Has an entirely different connotation when saying it that way, don't you think?

Lore wrote:As for the watering hole, we've been there and done that. Now the people of India have to drill even deeper, where and when they can to find water. So much for the "green revolution" to support a nation in population overshoot.


India was in overshoot before, and if history is any indication apparently they just moved on the next overshoot without even suffering the consequences of the first. Funny how that worked out, isn't it? The story of humanity, right there. Always seeming to be ready to dieoff..but just..not...quite..making it.

Lore wrote:Humans with all their supposed superiority cannot overcome the scarcity of resources they've created and the wreckage of the environment they are passing on to those that are left. Hell, many don't even recognize these problems exist. We are not smart! We're just better at digging our own graves is all.


Scarcity of resources, please. You mean like running out of iron in the late 19th century? Lacking all that steel sure made it difficult to build out suburbia. And cars. And pollution? You mean like how the IRON city looked like this no so long ago, and now doesn't? Funny thing, humans having the ability to clean up their own environmental wreckage and not getting credit for it. Fortunately for us top of the food chain species, we can make things better just by choosing to do so. And some of us obviously already have made that choice. Join the gang of pollution curing Americans and lets show the Chinese how to clean up their wreckage next!

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