Login



Peak Oil is You


Donate Bitcoins ;-) or Paypal :-)


Is Cornucopianism the new Creationism?

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Moderator: Pops

Is Cornucopianism the new Creationism?

Unread postby babystrangeloop » Fri 03 Feb 2012, 07:00:04

What makes Creationism so vile is that it is taught in schools. Now Cornucopianism is also being taught.

This video shows a college lecture where a student ask about why the limits to oil are not part of the lecturer's considerations only to be told that some countries have "unlimited oil" and then when pressed the lecturer reaffirms this statement:

http://youtu.be/OTg8q7Bluqo

How dare they teach such utter nonsense in a University? Can you imagine paying vast amounts of tuition money to be "educated" in such a fashion?

Transportation chief says oil supply ‘unlimited’
From Kristine Hadeed and Jalisa House, VCU InSight and Claire Porter / Capital News Service / January 29, 2012


In remarks that raised some eyebrows in the audience, the nation’s top transportation official said this week that there is an “unlimited supply of oil” in parts of the world.

U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood made that statement Wednesday at Virginia Commonwealth University at the end of a town hall meeting attended by about 75 students, staff, and faculty members.

In the last question of the hour-long meeting, Vicente Gonzalez, a junior majoring in social justice at VCU, asked LaHood about a previous statement he made regarding future standards for automobile efficiency.

“I was wondering,” Gonzalez said, “you said that by 2025, the deal is to have 50 mile-per-gallon [vehicles]?”

“Fifty-four, yeah,” LaHood said.

“Well,” Gonzalez asked, “if we’re expected to exhaust all the world’s oil reserves within the next 25, 30-ish years, then why is gasoline being discussed in these negotiations at all?”

LaHood responded, “There’s an unlimited supply of oil in many countries around the world.”

Gonzalez questioned that, saying, “Unlimited?”

“Absolutely. Absolutely,” LaHood replied. “Now, some of these countries aren’t our friends, others are.” ...
babystrangeloop
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 638
Joined: Sat 25 Jun 2011, 03:34:57

Re: Is Cornucopianism the new Creationism?

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Fri 03 Feb 2012, 07:43:38

Yes it is. Way worse though.

Creationism has an almost inifinite array of slants to it, facets, angles, it's an interesting debate. With these guys (which seems to be 90%) it's all monochrome. The mantra is: "don't worry be happy"... etc etc, in every bent of every language, a religion so simple as to not require a manual.

"Just be positive man, they will find a solution, they always do".

Is the line to end every doomer conversation.
SeaGypsy
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5946
Joined: Wed 04 Feb 2009, 03:00:00

Re: Is Cornucopianism the new Creationism?

Unread postby babystrangeloop » Fri 03 Feb 2012, 07:53:52

SeaGypsy wrote: "Just be positive man, they will find a solution, they always do".

Is the line to end every doomer conversation.

Well they better hurry up, it's starting to look like they are waiting too long to come through this time.

Climate policy: Oil's tipping point has passed
James Murray and David King
Published in Nature, Volume 481, January 26, 2012


The economic pain of a flattening supply will trump the environment as a reason to curb the use of fossil fuels, say James Murray and David King.

Image


Skyrocketing numbers of food stamp recipients:
Image
All-time low of sales of new homes:
Image
Permanent $3 gas:
Image
Last edited by babystrangeloop on Fri 03 Feb 2012, 08:04:58, edited 2 times in total.
babystrangeloop
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 638
Joined: Sat 25 Jun 2011, 03:34:57

Re: Is Cornucopianism the new Creationism?

Unread postby dorlomin » Fri 03 Feb 2012, 07:54:54

babystrangeloop wrote:What makes Creationism so vile is that it is taught in schools. Now Cornucopianism is also being taught.
Taught?

Its a QA session with an invited guest at a university.

What does this have to do with creationism in any way shape or form.
User avatar
dorlomin
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 4999
Joined: Sun 05 Aug 2007, 02:00:00

Re: Is Cornucopianism the new Creationism?

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Fri 03 Feb 2012, 07:56:53

Some solutions are final. I would not send my kids to a school that I don't want them in.
SeaGypsy
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5946
Joined: Wed 04 Feb 2009, 03:00:00

Re: Is Cornucopianism the new Creationism?

Unread postby babystrangeloop » Fri 03 Feb 2012, 08:07:49

dorlomin wrote:What does this have to do with creationism in any way shape or form.

What is the "this" in your question "what does this..."? Think about it, you are merely nitpicking about a detail when the larger picture is the issue.

I am not writing about a particular incident. I am writing about cornucopianism which is a dogma as worthless as creationism.
Last edited by babystrangeloop on Fri 03 Feb 2012, 08:15:38, edited 1 time in total.
babystrangeloop
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 638
Joined: Sat 25 Jun 2011, 03:34:57

Re: Is Cornucopianism the new Creationism?

Unread postby dorlomin » Fri 03 Feb 2012, 08:15:36

babystrangeloop wrote: I am writing about Cornucopianism.
You are talking rubbish.
User avatar
dorlomin
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 4999
Joined: Sun 05 Aug 2007, 02:00:00

Re: Is Cornucopianism the new Creationism?

Unread postby dsula » Fri 03 Feb 2012, 08:17:35

babystrangeloop wrote:What makes Creationism so vile is that it is taught in schools.

I was never thought creationism in school. I had to take some classes in phylosophy to realize there's other worldviews besides the "logic" "big-bang" "there's-no-God-but-we-have-no-idea-where-we-come-from" view.
I wish schools would teach a broad spectrum of views instead of concentrating on only one while marking others as vile.
User avatar
dsula
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 983
Joined: Wed 13 Jun 2007, 02:00:00

Re: Is Cornucopianism the new Creationism?

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Fri 03 Feb 2012, 08:18:24

As a fellow emu chaser, let me help explain it mate. If there is no need to get folks offside with generalities best don't. This is largely an American site a good few of whom have some doubt about singing slime theory etc ad infinitum. Chase den emus 1 at a time bruz.
SeaGypsy
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5946
Joined: Wed 04 Feb 2009, 03:00:00

Re: Is Cornucopianism the new Creationism?

Unread postby babystrangeloop » Fri 03 Feb 2012, 08:19:03

dorlomin wrote:
babystrangeloop wrote: I am writing about Cornucopianism.
You are talking rubbish.

So are you denying the existence of cornucopianism as a dogma? There are so many examples of it today.

KMBC's Exclusive Interview With President Obama
July 20, 2011


WASHINGTON -- KMBC 9 News Anchor Lara Moritz interviewed President Barack Obama at the White House on Wednesday.

... skip ...

Q: Lara Moritz: “One thing that also is something that is frustrating Kansans and Missourians is that almost overnight, gas prices jumped $.20 this week. They averaged $3.68. What do we do about that?”

A: President Obama: “This has been a big headwind that we’ve experienced in the economy. Because gas prices not only take money directly out of people’s pockets. But psychologically every time you pass a filling station you say boy, things are getting tough out there. And that leads to a lot of consumers cut back on their spending overall. We saw it spike high mainly because of what was happening in the Middles East, but also because global demand is increasing. It’s because of that that I helped to mobilize the international community to release some of the petroleum reserves that were out there, and that has contributed to a lessening of prices. But we’re going to see spikes periodically. But what we’re going to do is try to remain stable over the short term. Over the long term though, we’re going to have to shift our energy policy. The fact of the matter is, we use 25% of the world’s oil, and we only have 3% of the world’s reserves. We’re not going to drill our way out of the problem. We’re producing more oil in this country than we ever have. But even with all that production, we can’t fulfill all our needs. That’s why it’s so important for us to look at alternative approaches to energy. And the transportation sector. Increasing fuel efficiency standards. Making sure we’re developing gas which we have a lot of in the United States and doing it in an environmentally sound way. Making sure that electric cars end up being built here in the United States of America instead of somewhere else. Those are the kinds of things that over time are going to keep gas prices under control. If we don’t do that then gas prices will keep going up in the future. They’ll go down, but the long term trend will be upwards because you’ve got a couple billion Chinese and Indians who are now starting to buy cars and starting to use more energy. And that raises global demand for oil as a whole. So we have to start shifting how we think about energy in this country.”


``We’re producing more oil in this country than we ever have.'' -- President Obama
Image (click for source)
babystrangeloop
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 638
Joined: Sat 25 Jun 2011, 03:34:57

Re: Is Cornucopianism the new Creationism?

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Fri 03 Feb 2012, 08:35:58

You don't get it. There was nothing wrong with your thread title or the concept you have just mentioned being exclusively on about. What is stupid is the 1st lesson at toastmasters, namely "First make everyone your friend, then single out your enemy/ never push people away from your message unnecessarily". You just did the exact opposite, called in some circles a bull in a china shop or the elephant in the fruit patch in others. Anyway it's an offensive way to state an argument.
SeaGypsy
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5946
Joined: Wed 04 Feb 2009, 03:00:00

Re: Is Cornucopianism the new Creationism?

Unread postby babystrangeloop » Fri 03 Feb 2012, 08:38:25

SeaGypsy wrote:You don't get it. There was nothing wrong with your thread title or the concept you have just mentioned being exclusively on about. What is stupid is the 1st lesson at toastmasters, namely "First make everyone your friend, then single out your enemy/ never push people away from your message unnecessarily". You just did the exact opposite, called in some circles a bull in a china shop or the elephant in the fruit patch in others. Anyway it's an offensive way to state an argument.

FRIENDLESS, adj.
Having no favors to bestow. Destitute of fortune. Addicted to utterance of truth and common sense.
babystrangeloop
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 638
Joined: Sat 25 Jun 2011, 03:34:57

Re: Is Cornucopianism the new Creationism?

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Fri 03 Feb 2012, 08:44:54

Ok it's sad if people are stupid and buy into stupid stories. But some stupid stories have gotten millions of folks killed, fairly recently, and could do again. So singling out creationism as a juxtaposition to your argument is a catchy title, but you should have left it at that and moved right on to your point, which I and many here would agree with and perhaps like to explore/ tell funny stories about/ stuff like that, instead of arguing about religion.

(Bang bang bang :P )
SeaGypsy
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5946
Joined: Wed 04 Feb 2009, 03:00:00

Re: Is Cornucopianism the new Creationism?

Unread postby dorlomin » Fri 03 Feb 2012, 08:51:00

babystrangeloop wrote:
dorlomin wrote:
babystrangeloop wrote: I am writing about Cornucopianism.
You are talking rubbish.

So are you denying the existence of cornucopianism as a dogma?
Whatever. Bye.
User avatar
dorlomin
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 4999
Joined: Sun 05 Aug 2007, 02:00:00

Re: Is Cornucopianism the new Creationism?

Unread postby babystrangeloop » Fri 03 Feb 2012, 09:02:18

dorlomin wrote:
babystrangeloop wrote:
dorlomin wrote:
babystrangeloop wrote: I am writing about Cornucopianism.
You are talking rubbish.

So are you denying the existence of cornucopianism as a dogma?
Whatever. Bye.


http://youtu.be/RGgfDPEba8w
babystrangeloop
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 638
Joined: Sat 25 Jun 2011, 03:34:57

Re: Is Cornucopianism the new Creationism?

Unread postby vision-master » Fri 03 Feb 2012, 09:53:21

I am writing about cornucopianism which is a dogma as worthless as creationism.


Don't forget the dogma of evolution. :)
vision-master
 

Re: Is Cornucopianism the new Creationism?

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Fri 03 Feb 2012, 11:31:30

For theologians, it's an old chestnut that "faith" is also the denial of every fact that contradicts the dogma. Once you get the hang of it, examples aren't that hard to find:

Global warming denial
Evolution denial (Creationism)
Peak oil denial
Slavery-caused-the Civil-War denial
Saddam Hussein not involved in 9-11 denial
WMD never found denial
Obama is an American denial
Holocaust denial

You see, it is legitimate to compare cornucopianism to Creationism, because they operate by the same mechanism. Indeed, cornucopianists and Creationists are often the same people, since Young Earth Creationism is friendly to abiotic cornucopian fairy tales. A Venn diagram would also show the overlap with far right politics.
User avatar
PrestonSturges
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 4759
Joined: Wed 15 Oct 2008, 02:00:00

Re: Is Cornucopianism the new Creationism?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 03 Feb 2012, 12:09:00

babystrangeloop wrote:What makes Creationism so vile is that it is taught in schools. Now Cornucopianism is also being taught.....

How dare they teach such utter nonsense in a University? Can you imagine paying vast amounts of tuition money to be "educated" in such a fashion?

Transportation chief says oil supply ‘unlimited’
From Kristine Hadeed and Jalisa House, VCU InSight and Claire Porter / Capital News Service / January 29, 2012


In remarks that raised some eyebrows in the audience, the nation’s top transportation official said this week that there is an “unlimited supply of oil” in parts of the world.

U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood made that statement Wednesday at Virginia Commonwealth University at the end of a town hall meeting attended by about 75 students, staff, and faculty members.

In the last question of the hour-long meeting, Vicente Gonzalez, a junior majoring in social justice at VCU, asked LaHood about a previous statement he made regarding future standards for automobile efficiency.

“I was wondering,” Gonzalez said, “you said that by 2025, the deal is to have 50 mile-per-gallon [vehicles]?”

“Fifty-four, yeah,” LaHood said.

“Well,” Gonzalez asked, “if we’re expected to exhaust all the world’s oil reserves within the next 25, 30-ish years, then why is gasoline being discussed in these negotiations at all?”

LaHood responded, “There’s an unlimited supply of oil in many countries around the world.”

Gonzalez questioned that, saying, “Unlimited?”

“Absolutely. Absolutely,” LaHood replied. “Now, some of these countries aren’t our friends, others are.” ...


Ray La Hood is not a College Professor. La Hood is a cabinet member in the Obama administration. Mr. La Hood wasn't teaching----he is a goverment official expressing the government position

Blaming the university that invited Mr. La Hood to speak for Mr. La Hood's ignorance is silly.

The problem isn't at the university----in fact, the university deserves credit for exposing the abysmal ignorance about peak oil in the Obama administration.

Image
Ray Lahood---Obama's Secretary of Transportation displays his ignorance about peak oil

We’re leaving behind a sovereign, stable and self-reliant Iraq
---Barack Obama (2011)
Unfortunately, the Fed can't print oil
---Ben Bernanke (2011)
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 15337
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 02:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: Is Cornucopianism the new Creationism?

Unread postby ian807 » Fri 03 Feb 2012, 12:11:38

Well, cornucopianism is certainly faith-based in the sense that the data suggests that we're on the downslope of non- renewable energy availability, at least as far as liquid hydrocarbons go.

The faith based arguments to the contrary seem to boil down to:

    * The economist's argument: "Demand will create supply"

    * The "magic oil" argument: "Abiotic oil is a renewable resource, constantly being created."

    * The technology will save us argument: "New technology [insert favorite here] will solve the energy crisis!

    * We haven't explored all the Earth's surface yet. There's bound to be more oil (This is sort of a recent Faux News talking point.)

All of the above arguments demand either a belief in magic (e.g. Demand creates supply) or ignoring critical facts (e.g. no provable examples of nontrivial abiotic liquid hydrocarbon generation. No quantitative analysis of energy or scalability for new energy technology. No differentiating between energy types like electricity and oil). Of course, there are no existing maps of unexplored areas of the earth's surface where the geology tells us oil might be, but there may be a few and oil might surprise us, although it hasn't much thus far.
User avatar
ian807
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 900
Joined: Mon 03 Nov 2008, 03:00:00

Re: Is Cornucopianism the new Creationism?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 03 Feb 2012, 12:13:51

PrestonSturges wrote:... far right politics.


Bzzzzt!

The ignorant Ray LaHood is a prominent LIBERAL DEMOCRAT. He was picked by Obama to be the in the cabinet as US transporation secretary.

Ray LaHood is on the left, not the right. :roll:

We’re leaving behind a sovereign, stable and self-reliant Iraq
---Barack Obama (2011)
Unfortunately, the Fed can't print oil
---Ben Bernanke (2011)
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 15337
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 02:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Next

Return to Peak Oil Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests