[Serial_Worrier]

The fascinating thing is how many leftists are cornucopians! You would think that the left would be all on the same page, but apparently cornucopianism = votes for Obama...

[Ibon]

Well, on my 8th year now on this site, my 23rd year since graduating in Environmental Science, and my 54th year of life on this planet. Scanned through this thread. It reads just like 100's of other threads on this site and like tens of thousands of debates of the past.

What can we distill?

Any kind of transformation toward any real meaningful sustainability for our species happens after a correction in our human population.

You can't expect ideology or rational science to contribute too much to changing the path of human overshoot in the 21st century. Even when consequences start to hurt, irrational ideology will continue to be reinforced far down the slope of energy decline.

You have all heard the serenity prayer....God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,Courage to change the things I can, And wisdom to know the difference.

There is an indirect relationship between our soaring human population and our ability to change our ideologies. In reference to the above prayer courage has to be redefined as the acceptance that there is very little left that we can change. Wisdom is understanding that the consequences far down the energy decline slope will mainly serve to reinforce irrational ideologies.

I have added an additional line to the signature at the bottom of my posts after reading through this thread.

[vision-master]

Any kind of transformation toward any real meaningful sustainability for our species happens after a correction in our human population.

an the needed correction is exactly NOT what you are thinking bc you are of the mind set of 'die-off'. Same old way of thinking since the early Romans.......... The correction needed is our way of thinking, our level of consciousness. Any ideas?