[KaiserJeep]

"The last movie to attempt absolute Scientific accuracy was 2001 A Space Odyssey (1968)." Except for the talking Univac, disco-chimps, and the weird white kitchen floating in space without a space suit!. And as for Star Wars (1977), it was great SF It had Joan Rivers, Harrison Ford, and Chewbacca. So I would say it is more scientifically enabled ?

Bite your tongue. Star Wars is not in the Science Fiction genre AT ALL. It is as much Fantasy as is The Lord of the Rings. If you believe that there is no difference between those genres, then go back to first grade and start over.

By the way, HAL was not a Univac, he was an IBM, born in my Alma Mater, the University of Illinois Supercomputing Lab, which also birthed the DARPANET which eventually evolved into the Internet. Take the letters IBM, subtract each one letter in the alphabet sequence, and you get HAL.

Joan Rivers? I know of no connection to Star Wars, she was then one of many Hollywood reporters, and had not yet "made" her career. Maybe you are thinking of Carrie Fisher, the daughter of Debbie Reynolds and Eddie Fisher?

Now back to worm holes: otherwise known as an Einstein–Rosen bridge, a worm-hole is a topological feature of spacetime that is fundamentally a shortcut through spacetime. A wormhole is much like a tunnel with two ends, each in separate points in spacetime. Kind of like the Lincoln Tunnel, where on one end you have Tribecca and eventually Brooklyn with it's hip life-style of the future and on the other end you have Jew Nersey. I mean New Joisey, with its housewives and the such. If you can wrap your mind around that, forgetaboutit.

The whole sequence after Bowman passed through TMA-2 obelisk was part of the alien technology that invented the obelisks themselves. As they say, any sufficiently advanced civilization appears to be magic - anyway Arthur C. Clark said that after his role as Scientific advisor on the film 2001 A Space Odyssey. You are describing a thought experiment, nobody believes that wormholes actually exist except those who haven't studied Physics. Stanley Kubrick and Clarke did their best, but for me, Bowman's journey through a "wormhole" in the pod was the weakest scene in the movie, full of flashy lights but devoid of much meaning. Wormholes are frequently used to explain and teach Einstein's concepts of gravity, but they are not real, they are thought experiments. Another example of a thought experiment is a Klein Bottle:

....which this is not, because a real Klein bottle must pass through itself without the existence of a hole.

[Lore]

I caught the movie last night with my wife. A long three hours. Not bad, truly a homage to "2001 A Space Odyssey". It raises a time paradox where our future selves comeback to help us move off our dying planet.

Reality suggests that no one is coming to help us, other then what little we will provide for ourselves. We're stuck here, for better, or for worse. Looking more like the latter these days.

[jedrider]

blight. It wasn't quite linked to industrial society was it? Just started devouring the crops, upping the nitrogen levels.

No, you missed the conversation on the front porch about 6 billion people trying to have it all on a finite planet- this was very much an apocalyptic post-industrial movie. Blight was a symptom of the end, not the cause. (At least that was my take on the story)

I like that: "Our lives are but a SYMPTOM of the end, and NOT the cause." That makes me feel better.

[Revi]

It was really fun, but I disagree with the basic premise of trashing this planet and then searching for another. It's like ebola, kill the host and then look around for another. Couldn't we just figure out a way to not trash our planet? I guess not, but it would be nice. They do mention that the planet was decimated by the excesses of the 20th century. Otherwise it was a great space epic. Lots of great spaceman scenes and time travel, etc. I recommend it highly.

[KaiserJeep]

Again, nobody is searching for another planet to live on. Planets are dirty, nasty places full of predators, disease, and danger. The human race will inhabit the solar system in man-made space habitats, not planets.

The planet started dying 200 years ago when the human population surpassed the sustainable number of 1 Billion. We are 200 years into population overshoot, and were the excess 6.3+ billion humans to magically disappear overnight, we might be able to talk about some possibility, be it ever so slim, that the planet could be saved.

But those 6.3+ billion excess humans will not go quietly into the night, they will struggle to survive, and that struggle will complete the destruction of the planet - which destruction started 200 years ago.

Animal and plant species are disappearing more rapidly now than in all the prior mass extinction events recorded in the fossil record. Even that "dinosaur killer" asteroid that struck the Yucatan Peninsula 62 million years ago took about 1300 years to complete the near-destruction of the ecology, when 95+% of all life on Earth was extinguished, and small egg-eating mammals were stimulated to evolve into primates.

That is correct, the human race, burning fossil fuels, ripping minerals out of the Earth's crust, over-fishing the oceans, using all the fresh water, and crowding out the natural plants and animals, is the biggest and deadliest and most rapid natural disaster ever to befall this planet.

Forget talking about limiting climate change - which is only a symptom of human overpopulation anyway. Forget talking about the end of oil, and what that means. The humans are killing the Earth, and having them first die off then refuse to live on the surface any longer is the only shred of hope that any other species can survive on the surface.

200 years ago, it was too late to save the planet. The Reverend Thomas R. Malthus warned us about it, we ignored his warning, and we cfompleted the destruction of the planet. Effectively, it is dead already.

It is perfectly reasonable, even if an act of hubris, to believe that humans can survive what they did to Earth. The planet itself will recover, given a few million years. But that time when humans lived on this planet, that will end very soon.

I am 63 years old, and I have personally seen about the last third of the planet's destruction. When I was born, no "Enviromentalists" even existed, they were called "Naturalists" and they were severely annoying people by taking huge tracts of unspoiled nature and reserving them for plants and animals other than humans. The Rachel Carson published Silent Spring in 1962, and we recognized that humans were killing the Earth. Now you need to understand that it's by far too late to save it, about 200 years too late.

Our endless possibilities are reduced - by humans themselves - to only two. Die, or move off the Earth. You can deny the truth, but you cannot change it.

[ennui2]

The amount of energy required to physically move billions of people off earth onto some interstellar twin is a non-starter. I don't know how Interstellar attempts to wrestle with that. The best you could have is a single lifeboat ark, not just gracefully transfer excess humans off-world. That is purely a Trek fantasy.

[KaiserJeep]

Make no mistake, the space habitats are survival for only a few humans. In fact the Human Genome project showed us that we could conserve all of the genes of the various strains of humanity with fewer than 1000 people. That would be the number we want to lift into space.

Everybody else dies. The humans spread through space and hopefully stay off the Earth for a few millenia so that the Ecology can heal.

Even though this is a process that began 200 years ago, there is at least another century before the environment completely collapses, +/- 50 years. Your children and grandchildren can have a fulfilling life. They will watch the great die-off, you will not.

[dinopello]

Make no mistake, the space habitats are survival for only a few humans. In fact the Human Genome project showed us that we could conserve all of the genes of the various strains of humanity with fewer than 1000 people. That would be the number we want to lift into space.

Everybody else dies. The humans spread through space and hopefully stay off the Earth for a few millenia so that the Ecology can heal.

Even though this is a process that began 200 years ago, there is at least another century before the environment completely collapses, +/- 50 years. Your children and grandchildren can have a fulfilling life. They will watch the great die-off, you will not.

I would hate to have to decide...who stays down and...who goes up.

Dr. KJ: Well, that would not be necessary. It could easily be accomplished with a computer. And a computer could be set and programmed to accept factors from youth, health, sexual fertility, intelligence, and a cross-section of necessary skills. Of course, it would be absolutely vital that our top government and military men be included to foster and impart the required principles of leadership and tradition. Naturally, they would breed prodigiously, eh? There would be much time, and little to do. Ha, ha. But ah, with the proper breeding techniques and a ratio of say, ten females to each male, I would guess that they could then work their way back to the present Gross National Product within say, twenty years.

But look here doctor, wouldn't this nucleus of survivors be so grief-stricken and anguished that they'd, well, envy the dead and not want to go on living?

Dr. KJ: No, sir...When they go up in the spaceship, everyone would still be alive. There would be no shocking memories, and the prevailing emotion will be one of nostalgia for those left behind, combined with a spirit of bold curiosity for the adventure ahead!

Doctor, you mentioned the ratio of ten women to each man. Now, wouldn't that necessitate the abandonment of the so-called monogamous sexual relationship, I mean, as far as men were concerned?

Dr. KJ: Regrettably, yes. But it is, you know, a sacrifice required for the future of the human race. I hasten to add that since each man will be required to do prodigious...service along these lines, the women will have to be selected for their sexual characteristics which will have to be of a highly stimulating nature.

I must confess, you have an astonishingly good idea there, Doctor.

[KaiserJeep]

dino, I recognise Dr. Strangelove. I remember when it was new. In fact I remember both the Bay of Pigs invasion and the Cuban Missile Crisis. When Kubrick's inspired lunacy in the form of Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb came along in 1964 we were weekly practicing "Duck and Cover" under our desks and my Father and Mother were debating whether they wanted a fallout shelter in our backyard.

Meanwhile I was living in Louisiana, and had just watched Governor Long (Earl, younger brother of "The Kingfish") running the state from a mental hospital, until he escaped by appointing a new head for all the state's hospitals. We were living in the approach corridor for a US Naval Air Station, and sonic booms shook our house every day - the "sound of freedom".

Politics was full of interesting characters then. We hardly knew that we were doomed - except of course we expected nuclear armageddon continuously for a couple of decades, until Kubrick's movie allowed everyone to breathe again.

Meanwhile, there is not even any debate here - after the commercial exploitation of space begins, those who go are those who purchase tickets. It is that simple. The government will be busily printing currency and pretending that dollars still have value, while 7/8ths of the US population tries to live on the taxes of the other 1/8th. Those who understand what is happening will escape the death of the ecology by leaving the planet. Everyone else dies.

[Lore]

Meanwhile, there is not even any debate here - after the commercial exploitation of space begins, those who go are those who purchase tickets. It is that simple. The government will be busily printing currency and pretending that dollars still have value, while 7/8ths of the US population tries to live on the taxes of the other 1/8th. Those who understand what is happening will escape the death of the ecology by leaving the planet. Everyone else dies.

Let's pretend for a moment someone will get off this planet. Which 1/8 makes it now, in what and in how many centuries? I believe the movie was closer to the truth with their plan B. Several thousand frozen eggs and sperm to be united in a robotic womb and raised by AI.

[dinopello]

KJ's plot is more like the movie 2012 except in that movie the governments were secretly building the arks with funding by selling tickets to the wealthy. The clueless government angle with total private control blends in a bit of Atlas Shrugged. It relies on everyone being fooled into thinking that their money is worth something as they toil to build the arks. If the government isn't a part of that it might be a difficult plot line to sell.

The sequel could be fun though with a bunch of rich marshmallows trying to survive in space. I guess I should say formerly rich cause their "money" would be worthless in space. It would be like Gilligan's Island with all Mr Howells. Never understood why everyone showed any deference to the Howells.

[Tanada]

KJ's plot is more like the movie 2012 except in that movie the governments were secretly building the arks with funding by selling tickets to the wealthy. The clueless government angle with total private control blends in a bit of Atlas Shrugged. It relies on everyone being fooled into thinking that their money is worth something as they toil to build the arks. If the government isn't a part of that it might be a difficult plot line to sell.

The sequel could be fun though with a bunch of rich marshmallows trying to survive in space. I guess I should say formerly rich cause their "money" would be worthless in space. It would be like Gilligan's Island with all Mr Howells. Never understood why everyone showed any deference to the Howells.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0910970/?ref_=nv_sr_6

In a distant, but not so unrealistic, future where mankind has abandoned earth because it has become covered with trash from products sold by the powerful multi-national Buy N Large corporation, WALL-E, a garbage collecting robot has been left to clean up the mess. Mesmerized with trinkets of Earth's history and show tunes, WALL-E is alone on Earth except for a sprightly pet cockroach. One day, EVE, a sleek (and dangerous) reconnaissance robot, is sent to Earth to find proof that life is once again sustainable. WALL-E falls in love with EVE. WALL-E rescues EVE from a dust storm and shows her a living plant he found amongst the rubble. Consistent with her "directive", EVE takes the plant and automatically enters a deactivated state except for a blinking green beacon. WALL-E, doesn't understand what has happened to his new friend, but, true to his love, he protects her from wind, rain, and lightning, even as she is unresponsive. One day a massive ship comes to reclaim EVE, but WALL-E, ... Written by Anonymous

[ennui2]

Wall-E is an interesting point of contrast. It correctly predicts the fouling of our nests but doesn't predict that our technology will regress due to the end of the fossil-fuel age. There's always a magic future-tech that allows us to live in the lap of luxury, like what somehow powers the spaceships that the fat people live in.

Hollywood seems to be very good at focusing on isolated issues but not good at looking at the whole.

[KaiserJeep]

Knowledge is never lost. One can live in the rainforests of Africa, the Gobi desert, or the ice of the North Polar region, and pursue a degree in Mathematics. The availability of knowledge does not depend upon oil, and knowledge will not be lost, ever.

Nor does the death of almost everyone imply the end of civilization. The last man alive may spend his time researching the local copy of Wikipedia while eating expired canned beans and drinking Single Malt Scotch. Nor should you expect any of his neighbors to have regressed to cavemen status, dressed in poorly cured hides, and began to communicate via grunts.

In fact, even in that period in history known as the Dark Ages, knowledge was not lost. All those people were illiterate throughout their squalid lives, and died that way. Just as after the fall of Rome, the Italians kept going, until they had invented Ferrari's and Maserati's, and never having forgotten how to build chariots.

It may be a popular theme of SF, almost universally perpetuated in Hollywood, but the decline of civilization has never had any truth to it.

[Lore]

Knowledge is never lost. One can live in the rainforests of Africa, the Gobi desert, or the ice of the North Polar region, and pursue a degree in Mathematics. The availability of knowledge does not depend upon oil, and knowledge will not be lost, ever.

Wrong, remove the resources, tools, the infrastructure, the training and we're only a generation away from our primitive selves.

Nor does the death of almost everyone imply the end of civilization. The last man alive may spend his time researching the local copy of Wikipedia while eating expired canned beans and drinking Single Malt Scotch. Nor should you expect any of his neighbors to have regressed to cavemen status, dressed in poorly cured hides, and began to communicate via grunts.

Just civilization as we know it. What's left might not be very civilized.

In fact, even in that period in history known as the Dark Ages, knowledge was not lost. All those people were illiterate throughout their squalid lives, and died that way. Just as after the fall of Rome, the Italians kept going, until they had invented Ferrari's and Maserati's, and never having forgotten how to build chariots.

That's because the dark ages were never that dark when it came to acquiring skills and knowledge and it wasn't a global experience to begin with. Given a basket of undiscovered raw resources humans moved on.

It may be a popular theme of SF, almost universally perpetuated in Hollywood, but the decline of civilization has never had any truth to it.

Then again we were never living in a tapped out planet, till now. Extinction only happens once.

[dinopello]

Back to the movie - I was thinking about suggesting this as our traditional day after thanksgiving movie that my whole family goes to. Last year we went to Catching Fire. We have about a dozen people of ages 12 up so it has to appeal to a wide range. I think most would like the general topic here but after reading this article with some review excerpts, the movie itself doesn't sound that appealing. I've seen some good reviews too but the critique is pretty bad. Someone who saw the movie - what is your view relative to this article ?

[Lore]

Back to the movie - I was thinking about suggesting this as our traditional day after thanksgiving movie that my whole family goes to. Last year we went to Catching Fire. We have about a dozen people of ages 12 up so it has to appeal to a wide range. I think most would like the general topic here but after reading this article with some review excerpts, the movie itself doesn't sound that appealing. I've seen some good reviews too but the critique is pretty bad. Someone who saw the movie - what is your view relative to this article ?

Depends on how mature your 12 and up viewers are. It's not a Transformers movie. It runs slow in spots, lots of dialogue. Some of which encompasses complex ideas. A few misguided folks, but no real evil horde.