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International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 08 Jun 2017, 17:50:07

Quite simply what is needed is straightntalk. The world leaders need to understand and say "the paradigm of infinite growth is bogus, many will be disappointed, it it is necessary to deal with the reality of physics."

Of course I expect none of them (excepting Nicaragua ?) to say any such thing.

Until they do it's all a sham.

The question then becomes, now what? What do we individually do with this knowledge?
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Ibon » Thu 08 Jun 2017, 18:12:36

Newfie wrote:Quite simply what is needed is straightntalk. The world leaders need to understand and say "the paradigm of infinite growth is bogus, many will be disappointed, it it is necessary to deal with the reality of physics."

Of course I expect none of them (excepting Nicaragua ?) to SA any such thing.

Until they do it's all a sham.


What would have to happen for the two ends to embrace a leader speaking straight talk. Whereby both the voter and corporate lobbyist would yield to sacrifice?
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 08 Jun 2017, 19:56:22

I think the world would have to fall through a worm hole into a parallel universe where all normal human logic was reversed.
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby sparky » Fri 09 Jun 2017, 10:10:51

.
Anyone who believe than telling the truth to everyone all the time is a good idea ,
such a person has no future in politic .
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Fri 09 Jun 2017, 18:13:00

And that's a bad thing? It's like ancient Sparta, they were encouraged to steal, but were punished for being caught.

We are now living in a society where the mores are 180 degrees from where they were in the mid 20th century.

Selfishness, exploitation, lying, theft, and greed are all perfectly ok as long as you get away with it. (unless, of course, you are a minority or poor) Heck, it's the platform of the Republican Party now. That's not the Republican Party of Eisenhower. That pisses me off more than anything, that they usurped my party and turned it into this.

No wonder the Pope scowled.

One used to be able to be proud of being a Republican. Now they won't even admit it's wrong to cozy up to the Russians.

Jimmy Stewart was a Republican. Mr Smith goes to Washington was the ideal.

That was stolen from us. Now the Republican Party is the party of the Taylors of the world.
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circus politics

Unread postby Whitefang » Thu 29 Jun 2017, 16:34:09

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YoIEp3GwNs

Liberal lunatics with Mark Dice.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0ZNhzs3yho

CNN, Clinton News Network..........propaganda tool, not so much ratings, business as usual.

No wonder people turn away from mass media, politics and the elite of both parties that control the monetary system, education, law and order, police, navy and army.
Same thing here in Holland, close to 30 parties to choose from but only one that rules like the Sovjet, the mob.

Trump gang is not perfect but they do oppose the gangsters that took control over our western worldwide empire.

As for pulling out of Paris, but a feel good movie, only words that make us feel enlightened but change nothing.
Imagine how much energy that agreement has cost, hundreds of plane trips, hotels, cars.......
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 29 Jun 2017, 17:08:52

We've got three years left to change our ways and save the planet

2020-deadline-avert-climate-catastrophe-experts

Climate experts say if the world doesn't start reducing CO2 emissions by 2020, then there is no chance to meet the Paris Accords goal of keeping T increase under 2°C.

Too bad the Paris Accords themselves don't require reducing CO2 emissions. The world might actually have a chance then.

Image
We've got until 2020 to replace the Paris Accords with a climate agreement that actually requires reductions in global CO2 emissions.

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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 29 Jun 2017, 19:11:12

Cid,

Do you ever get the feeling that you have out lived your time?

That the world you knew and understood has been replaced by something cryptic and contorted?

I do. It's like I don't belong to the world back there anymore. It's part of my retreating to remote places. Looking for a way to go back, find something more stable.

And the news? Ug!
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 10 Jul 2017, 21:19:59

Why Trump Pulling Out of the Paris Agreement Led to a Stronger Global Climate Change Plan

As President Trump mulled pulling the U.S. out of the Paris Agreement on climate change earlier this year, supporters of bold policies to address global warming around the world feared that the U.S. withdrawal would hinder action on the issue.

But on Saturday, with the exception of Trump, the leaders of the world's largest economies gathered at the G20 reaffirmed their commitment to fostering clean energy development and implementing the Paris Agreement on climate change. Instead of attracting other laggards, Trump's decision freed the rest of the world to issue a strong Climate and Energy Action Plan for Growth Saturday that aims to address global warming — and measures aimed at appeasing Trump were mostly absent.


"In the end, the negotiations on climate reflect dissent — all against the United States of America," German Chancellor Angela Merkel told reporters following the summit, according to a Reuters report.
...


http://time.com/4850421/g20-trump-paris ... te-change/
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby onlooker » Tue 11 Jul 2017, 01:52:53

Well that all would be great if the latest Paris accords were worth even the paper they were printed on
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 24 Jul 2017, 14:24:38

https://www.skepticalscience.com/paris- ... rcent.html


Study: our Paris carbon budget may be 40% smaller than thought


https://skepticalscience.com/paris-carb ... rcent.html

We may be at 1°C or 1.2°C warming since “pre-industrial”


Based on current national pledges, humans will cause around 3 to 3.5°C warming above late-1800 temperatures by 2100.
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 24 Jul 2017, 16:26:57

dohboi wrote:https://www.skepticalscience.com/paris-carbon-budget-40-percent.html


Study: our Paris carbon budget may be 40% smaller than thought


https://skepticalscience.com/paris-carb ... rcent.html

We may be at 1°C or 1.2°C warming since “pre-industrial”


Based on current national pledges, humans will cause around 3 to 3.5°C warming above late-1800 temperatures by 2100.


Thanks D. What an Interesting article.

The article quotes the famous Prof. Michael Mann as saying:

Either the Paris targets have to be revised, or alternatively, we decide that the existing targets really were meant to describe only the warming since the late 19th century.

This is the kind of bizarre and outright dishonest thinking about global warming that really ticks me off. Prof. Mann now realizes that the earth has already warmed by ca. 1.3°C so the Paris Accords limit on global warming of 1.5-2.0°C is absurd. His solution: revise the Paris Accords warming limits upwards or redefine the global temperature data so it doesn't show as much warming.

What an utter clown. This shows exactly what a sham and a fraud the paris Accords really are.

Shouldn't the goal be to REDUCE global warming rather then fudging the data so the Paris Accords don't fail?

Doesn't it make more sense to REDUCE CO2 emissions rather then fudging the data or lifting the global warming target?

SHEESH!!!!!

Image
So what if the Paris Accords don't reduce global warming enough to meet the targets.....we can always FUDGE the data!!!

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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 24 Jul 2017, 22:28:23

Thanks, P. I thought you might find the article...interesting!
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 25 Jul 2017, 07:02:54

Plant,

I thought he was trying to make the same point you were, just more subtlety. He said it, you smacked 'em across the face with it. Which is OK, it's good to be blunt for the hard of thinking.
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby dohboi » Tue 25 Jul 2017, 17:32:22

Form Andrew at RealClimate:

... https://www.gfdl.noaa.gov/bibliography/ ... rw0101.pdf

From Discussion, page 1537

“Results of this study suggest that the climate system’s transient SAT [temperature] response lags the present day radiative forcing by approximately 20 years, leading to a present day warming commitment of approximately 1.0K.”

The paper is from 2001. Since then radiative forcing has increased from approximately 2.5W/m2 to 3W/m2 (https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/aggi/aggi.html).

We are already approximately 0.95C above the 1951-1980 average (LOTI, https://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/tabl ... s+dSST.txt)

If we are committed to an extra approximately 1.2C warming from present day forcing with a time lag of approximately 20 years, that would put us around 2.15C above the 1951-1980 average in 2037.

Which is much more than the 2C above pre-industrial “safe” threshold in the Paris Agreement.
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 25 Jul 2017, 18:21:04

China and other countries are building hundreds of new coal fired power plants

new-york-times-worlds-nations-building-huge-numbers-of-new-coal-plants-despite-emissions-growth

This is all OK according the Paris Climate Accords. Things like CO2 and Coal are never mentioned in the Accords, so building coal-fired power plants doesn't violate the accords.

The important thing is that the agreement amoung 180 nations that the earth's climate is forbidden to warm by more than 2°C is still in effect no matter how much coal is burned and how much CO2 is dumped into the atmosphere.

Cheers!

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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 25 Jul 2017, 18:29:25

Japan, South Korea violate Paris Accords

Japan-China-and-South-Korea-violate-Paris-agreement-by-funding-coal-in-Indonesia

Well, I suppose technically its a violation of the Paris Accords for Japan and South Korea to back coal-fired power plants in Indonesia when they pledged not to build coal fired power plants.

But since the whole Paris Accords are a sham and a fraud anyway, what difference does it make?

Image
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby dohboi » Wed 09 Aug 2017, 10:27:10

Does 'dodgy' national GHG emissions data threaten the Paris accord more than Donald Trump's plan for the US to withdraw from the accord?

Dodgy' greenhouse gas data threatens Paris accord

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-40669449
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Subjectivist » Wed 09 Aug 2017, 17:05:47

dohboi wrote:Does 'dodgy' national GHG emissions data threaten the Paris accord more than Donald Trump's plan for the US to withdraw from the accord?

Dodgy' greenhouse gas data threatens Paris accord

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-40669449


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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby onlooker » Wed 09 Aug 2017, 18:46:15

Plant, is so right, what difference does it make since to date all the so called treaties and accords have been at best insufficient to propel any effective reduction in man made CO2. What is downright frightening is the realization that our species has NO intention to give up on FF given how integral they are in the economies of many countries.
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