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International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby dissident » Sat 03 Jun 2017, 07:59:00

Plantagenet wrote:Rather then doing what scientifically needs to be done to minimize the effects of climate change, the Paris Accords are a political document that gives cover to the world's leaders.

The Ds and the EU are all pretending that the Paris Accords will prevent climate change. They are lying. The Paris Accords, if you look at the commitments of the signatories, calls for an INCREASE in CO2 emissions. The Paris Accords call for MORE global warming. So the Paris Climate Accords actually make climate change worse.

The purpose of the Paris Accords is to provide cover to TPTB so they can continue to do nothing about climate change.

What else does the Paris Accords actually do?

The Paris Climate Accords carry out Obama's dream of redistributing wealth by by having US taxpayers pay 100 billion dollars a year, or a trillion dollars over ten years, to the third world. Obama himself authorized a one billion dollar transfer of money from US taxpayers before he left office, even though Congress never authorized it.


Thanks for the dose of reality in the context of vapid political posturing in this thread. There is not enough pain from climate change for the global political elites and people in general to engage in serious action.
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Ibon » Sat 03 Jun 2017, 09:22:04

dissident wrote: There is not enough pain from climate change for the global political elites and people in general to engage in serious action.


That's what I have been saying for about 10 years here. The catalyst will be the pain, the consequences, of extending denial to such absurd lengths.

In a weird way this is exactly consistent with how most species operate as they go into overshoot. The good times are exploited in the moment and when they end the external consequences provide the correction that restores equilibrium. We really aren't wandering far from the standard ecological playbook here are we?
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 03 Jun 2017, 10:09:30

We really aren't wandering far from the standard ecological playbook here are we? No, we are not. Except that unlike other species who overshoot a particular environmental niche, ours seems to be in overshoot of the entire planetary milieu. Hence, references to how we now need more than one Earth to maintain our numbers and level of activity
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Newfie » Sun 04 Jun 2017, 06:40:34

I awoke to my Wife summarizing various MSM articles about Trump pulling out of Paris. I had her read Plants post above.

I don't much give a rats patute about Trump and why he pulled out of Paris.

I do care that the MSM focuses on Trump and the political story. I do care that they do NOT focus on climate change and the real changes.

But their actions very much align with the evidence that humans, in general, care not for facts but are focused on being politically correct.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/ ... l_facebook
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Satori » Sun 04 Jun 2017, 06:58:39

The Paris Climate Accords carry out Obama's dream of redistributing wealth by by having US taxpayers pay 100 billion dollars a year, or a trillion dollars over ten years

LMAO :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

that is literally a pittance
are you serious ? :P

the 8 wealthiest men in the world
control more wealth than the bottom THREE AND A HALF BILLION people do

redistributing the wealth by starting with the change buried in the couch cushions ? :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Cog » Sun 04 Jun 2017, 08:35:53

If it is a pittance than Europe should have no problem coming up with the funds.
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby onlooker » Sun 04 Jun 2017, 10:06:29

Cog wrote:If it is a pittance than Europe should have no problem coming up with the funds.

It is a pittance COMPARED to the total GDP of the PLANET and/or of the wealth of the richest is what Satori was I believe inferring :x
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Subjectivist » Sun 04 Jun 2017, 11:47:07

Cog wrote:If it is a pittance than Europe should have no problem coming up with the funds.

Indeed, if Paris and Berlin and Brussel think it is a great idea they can still spread their wealth to China/India/Brazil and encourage them to go green instead of going coal.
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Cog » Sun 04 Jun 2017, 12:00:00

onlooker wrote:
Cog wrote:If it is a pittance than Europe should have no problem coming up with the funds.

It is a pittance COMPARED to the total GDP of the PLANET and/or of the wealth of the richest is what Satori was I believe inferring :x


I knew what he referring to. He should set up a gofundme page. With all this massive support for donating money to the global climate change fund, he should have zero problem raising the funds.
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 04 Jun 2017, 12:15:18

Satori wrote:The Paris Climate Accords carry out Obama's dream of redistributing wealth by by having US taxpayers pay 100 billion dollars a year, or a trillion dollars over ten years


that is literally a pittance


You literally don't know what the word "pittance" means. [smilie=dark1.gif]

Cheers!

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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Satori » Sun 04 Jun 2017, 15:21:45

onlooker wrote:
Cog wrote:If it is a pittance than Europe should have no problem coming up with the funds.

It is a pittance COMPARED to the total GDP of the PLANET and/or of the wealth of the richest is what Satori was I believe inferring :x



don't bother onlooker
THEY don't get it :shock:
and NEVER will :P
and we all KNOW that :lol:
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 04 Jun 2017, 15:54:40

onlooker wrote:It is a pittance COMPARED to the total GDP of the PLANET


True enough. The GDP of the planet is estimated to be about 73.4 trillion dollars, so a trillion dollars over 10 years for obama's wealth redistribution scheme isn't a huge percentage of the whole planet's GDP.

But Obama set this up in the Paris Accords so the vast bulk of the money has to come from the US, i.e. about 70 billion per year or 700 billon over 10 years.

Looking at the USA, the 70 billon per year is more or less equivalent to the GDP of a major second tier city...say New Orleans.

Obama's basic plan is take the equivalent of every single dollar and every single day's work from New Orleans and then to give it to corrupt third world dictators in the Congo*, New Guinea, etc. in exchange for their promise that they will spend it on fighting climate change----and do it again year after year after year.

Why would anyone in their right mind want to do that?

-----------------------------

*I'm reading a book right now called STRINGER....its written by a reporter who was a "stringer" for the AP in the Congo. Part of his book details how western countries have already paid the Congo to keep their forests pristine and intact to fight global warming, and the Congo then sold the logging rights to the same trees to China, along with mining concessions in the same areas.

Who, other than Obama, would be stupid enough to want to keep doing that? :lol:

Image
The Chinese are logging forests in the Congo where the west has already paid the Congo to preserve the trees to fight climate change.

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---President Obama, 4/25/16
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Satori » Sun 04 Jun 2017, 16:10:23

well thank you Plant
excellent post
and I mean that
thanks for the book recommendation
just picked up a copy from EBAY
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 04 Jun 2017, 16:38:28

On the same topic, China (a member in good standing of the Paris Accords, unlike the USA) recently announced that they would reduce logging in natural forests in China. While this sounds nice, it will have the effect of INCREASING Chinese logging of pristine forests in Africa, since China demand for wood continues to grow.

chinas-logging-ban-domestic-not-foreign

There are few more destructive things a country could do to the planet then wipe out huge areas of tropical rain forests, and China is the main country doing it, both in Africa and in SE Asia. And the Paris Accords, which claim to mitigate climate change, place no limits on China's destruction of the world's tropical rain forests.
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 04 Jun 2017, 16:52:59

Does anyone have a good data source on total cumulative historic contributions to GHG levels by country. Might be interesting and relevant to the discussion.
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby onlooker » Sun 04 Jun 2017, 17:19:14

http://www.wri.org/blog/2014/05/history ... -emissions
World Resources Institute is a credible source-found some relevant info D.
Without looking, I do know the US has contributed a lion's share
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby onlooker » Sun 04 Jun 2017, 17:26:23

Wow, you can look at each country from here: http://cait.wri.org/historical/Country% ... ?indicator[]=Total%20CO2%20Emissions%20Excluding%20Land-Use%20Change%20and%20Forestry&year[]=1990&year[]=1991&year[]=1992&year[]=1993&year[]=1994&year[]=1995&year[]=1996&year[]=1997&year[]=1998&year[]=1999&year[]=2000&year[]=2001&year[]=2002&year[]=2003&year[]=2004&year[]=2005&year[]=2006&year[]=2007&year[]=2008&year[]=2009&year[]=2010&year[]=2011&sortIdx=NaN&chartType=line&view=table
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby onlooker » Sun 04 Jun 2017, 17:31:15

Try this link also
http://cait.wri.org/historical
And just press show all countries
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 04 Jun 2017, 21:18:11

Personally, I don't see the relevance of historical contributions to GHG emissions. The issue at hand is how to cut current CO2 emissions.

China and India argue that they should get unlimited freedom to grow their CO2 emissions because other countries used to emit more CO2 then they did, but that line of argument is precisely why China and India were exempted from the Kyoto Accords and continue to be exempted from making major CO2 emissions cuts now. Thats why China is now the world's largest CO2 producer---Al Gore in Kyoto said sure----pump out all the CO2 you want.

IMHO, no one should be exempted. Every country should have to make cuts. If a country already has low emissions, thats no absolutely reason to allow them to increase their CO2 now.

The planet is more important then any one country's excuses about why they want to pump out more and more CO2.

Cheers!

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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby onlooker » Sun 04 Jun 2017, 21:34:15

Yes, I have to second what Plant said. All countries must abandon FF's. Irrespective, of their stage of development. We cannot afford to delay in parsing the just distribution of cuts. Probably, the only valid criteria for distributing the proportion of cuts is population size.
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