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International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby ralfy » Wed 24 Jun 2015, 03:12:28

My understanding is that a tipping point will involve a decrease in energy and material resource use rather than a change in the flow of capital, as the latter ultimately leads to more of the same.
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby americandream » Wed 24 Jun 2015, 03:50:20

ralfy wrote:My understanding is that a tipping point will involve a decrease in energy and material resource use rather than a change in the flow of capital, as the latter ultimately leads to more of the same.


Very true. In other words, the exhaustion of accumulation.
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Graeme » Fri 10 Jul 2015, 18:05:57

How do scientists rate the prospect of a global climate deal?

Governments have committed to holding temperature rise to 2C from pre-industrial levels to avoid catastrophic climate change.

So far, 45 countries have delivered national carbon-cutting plans, but analysts say the collective effort won’t stop the planet overshooting that goal.

But planetary chaos isn’t a foregone conclusion, scientists believe.

From speeches in the plenary hall to chitchat over canapés, all at the forum signal a 2C world is still possible.

As the Paris climate summit nears, the scientific community is strongly pushing this message.

Intentionally, businessmen or policymakers haven’t been invited, save a few politicians from the host country.

Are these messages from science’s best minds getting through to those key cogs of the global economy?

Dominique Charron at the International Development Research Centre in Canada says scientists have to promote ideas, “but without the financial side, bank investments and business, scientists here are still talking among themselves”.

It is clear that there is still a gap between science, as collated by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), and policy makers.

Efforts to move past presenting problems to solutions still haven’t been fully realised, says France’s top climate diplomat, Laurence Tubiana.

“Scientists have to send the alert and IPCC has already done that. But the role of scientists for suggesting solutions hasn’t been played”.


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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 11 Jul 2015, 14:42:48

But will anything actually be accomplished other than talk talk talk, fly hither and yon using lots of jet fuel, talk talk talk, party, fly back to home using lots of jet fuel?
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Graeme » Sat 11 Jul 2015, 17:29:28

Here is a better review of what scientists discussed in Paris.

In Paris, Scientists Chart Varied Paths to a Sustainable Human Relationship With Earth’s Climate

A richly variegated four-day climate change conference, concluding yesterday in Paris, provided a sobering look at the mix of environmental, social and technological trends that have created humanity’s planet-size challenge — fitting seemingly infinite aspirations safely in a climate system that is showing signs of disruptive human-driven change.

But the meeting, Our Common Future Under Climate Change, was refreshing in several ways — the main one being the depth and breadth of scientific engagement on ways to bend trajectories toward better outcomes, both in reducing greenhouse-gas emissions and boosting resilience to climate hazards.

This presented a marked contrast to a similar science meeting held in Copenhagen in the spring of 2009 ahead of the failed climate treaty talks in that city later that year. Read the core messages then and now to get the sense of the shift — a constructive one, to my eye. I’ve appended the full summary statement from the scientists who organized the Paris conference at the end of the post.

Encouragingly, this week’s conference was also only partly framed around tweaking outcomes in the negotiations coming in this city in December, aimed at crafting a “universal climate agreement” under which all countries flexibly pursue and reliably report actions aimed at limiting global warming or its impacts.

The majority of sessions described how communities, industries or national and local governments could make energy and climate progress with or without a treaty. This reflects the spreading recognition that relying on top-down treaty-making as the determinative factor in shaping the human-climate relationship is wishful thinking. (Read “In Climate Talks, Soft is the New Hard – and That’s a Good Thing” for the context from Lima last year.)

At the Paris meeting, nearly 2,000 participants, from countries on all continents and at all levels of development, flowed through dozens of sessions examining an array of policies and actions at all scales that could limit our influence on the atmosphere and oceans and limit risks that changes in the climate will derail human progress.


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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby dohboi » Sat 11 Jul 2015, 21:59:08

Thanks for the link, G. So what do you think will come of these talks?
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Graeme » Mon 13 Jul 2015, 17:42:25

What could a legally binding UN climate deal look like?

A mooted UN climate pact could end up working like a credit ratings agency, say influential figures involved in crafting a Paris pact.

Countries that default or break their pollution cutting promises will lose credibility and trust amongst their peers, which will impact them in other venues and on other issues.

Rogue climate states (Canada) could miss out on benefits such as protection from trade sanctions, or “in club” transfer of low carbon technologies.

The suggestion was one of a series set out during a session hosted by the London-based E3G think tank last week.

Close observers of UN talks say little time has been spent exploring how binding certain elements of a Paris pact will be.

As a result think tanks are working overtime to test out options on negotiators, NGOs and journalists.

The session was held under the Chatham House rule – so names are off-limits. But the building blocks of what an agreement could look like did become a little clearer.


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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Subjectivist » Mon 13 Jul 2015, 17:49:35

Binding is the key term, what enforcement mechanism can be applied to make countries that fail to comply change their ways?
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Graeme » Thu 16 Jul 2015, 16:19:23

Top climate envoys confident Paris on course for success

Top climate envoys from the US, China, Brazil, Russia and 18 other countries have offered the clearest signal yet they feel a UN climate deal will be reached in Paris this year.

A summary of their views has been released by the Washington DC based C2ES think tank, the consequence of eight informal discussions since March 2014 with senior negotiators.

Former South Africa environment minister Valli Moosa, who helped coordinate discussions, said they had left him convinced failure in Paris would be “seizing defeat from the jaws of victory”.

Outline deal

The pact will likely make submitting national climate plans compulsory, but the greenhouse gas cuts countries propose are unlikely to be legally binding, it says.

It’s set to move on from the 1992 defined categories of rich and poor countries. All will be compelled to take action but current states of development will be respected in the agreement.

Paris is likely to stick with the goal of limiting warming to below 2C on pre-industrial levels and ensure all governments review their plans every five years, it says.


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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Lore » Thu 16 Jul 2015, 16:32:01

Do you really think any nation will honor these limits?
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Graeme » Fri 31 Jul 2015, 20:56:26

Difficult question. Will some countries cheat? Their pledges will have to be closely monitored. Here is the latest on the Paris agreement:

New Document Streamlines Negotiating Text for Paris, as Groundswell of Climate Action Continues

As the Paris Climate agreement approaches, we are seeing signs of a far different process from the last-minute confusion in Copenhagen - where negotiators had to work with an unwieldy negotiating text of more than 200 pages. The latest sign of progress towards a successful Paris agreement is the release of a shortened draft negotiating text -- produced by the two co-chairs of the negotiations leading to Paris.

At the end of the last negotiating session in June, negotiators from over 190 countries gave the co-chairs the mandate to accelerate the process by producing their more concise version of the text. The new draft, released on Friday July 24th, provides a consolidated text without deleting any options that country negotiators laid out in previous sessions. In UNFCCC language, this document is a "non-paper" that does not replace the official negotiating text, but it will be the basis for discussions at the next negotiating session. The total length has been trimmed down to 83 pages.

More importantly, the co-chairs separated the text into elements that would go into a durable post-2020 "Agreement" versus details appropriate for a "Decision" on implementation that can change over time. In its current forum, the Agreement language would only be 19 pages, which is a significant improvement. In addition, there is a third section of text in the co-chairs' draft which contains key elements where negotiators must decide if these provisions are better suited for the Agreement or the Decision.


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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 03 Sep 2015, 15:43:21

http://www.trust.org/item/2015090213583 ... OtherNews2

National emissions plans too weak to limit climate change

(Surprise, surprise! :roll: )

Only Ethiopia and Morocco put forward plans that were rated "sufficient" contributions to limit warming to 2C.


So much for any notion that the 'developed world' is somehow morally superior to the 'developing world.'
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Cog » Thu 03 Sep 2015, 20:21:16

dohboi wrote:http://www.trust.org/item/20150902135835-rxktk/?source=fiOtherNews2

National emissions plans too weak to limit climate change

(Surprise, surprise! :roll: )

Only Ethiopia and Morocco put forward plans that were rated "sufficient" contributions to limit warming to 2C.


So much for any notion that the 'developed world' is somehow morally superior to the 'developing world.'


Perhaps not morally superior but a hell of a lot smarter. If anyone wants to live like an Ethiopian, he can move there and have at it. Any volunteers here?
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 03 Sep 2015, 21:59:16

This is just like the worthless Kyoto Accords during which global CO2 emissions went up every year.

I expect the exact same thing to happen again

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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby onlooker » Mon 21 Sep 2015, 15:34:06

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... mate-talks
A sign of how seriously Great Britain takes the upcoming Paris climate convention. He appointed an Oil person to be a key adviser. I am sure he will do a good job. Haha, a good job for the interests of Big Oil.
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Sat 26 Sep 2015, 00:37:07

SEPTEMBER 25, 2015
Paris Climate Agreement Threatened by Trade Deals
by JOYCE NELSON
The ISDS clause in many bilateral and regional trade deals allows foreign corporations the right to sue governments for financial compensation if they change regulations that affect profits. Canada, for example, has already been sued under NAFTA for billions of dollars because of changes to regulations, especially to protect the environment. [1]

Van Harten, an internationally-recognized authority on investment law and trade deals, has offered a legal “carve-out” (several paragraphs in length) that climate negotiators could include in a Paris agreement in order to protect signatory countries. [2]

In a forward to Van Harten’s report, Council of Canadians Chair Maude Barlow explains that “many of the same countries pledging to take serious action on climate change are also party to, or are aggressively negotiating, trade and investment deals…So the stage is set for a conflict. If the parties come to a meaningful agreement on climate change in Paris, for it to be successful each country will have to take the promises home to their own legislatures and change laws and practices accordingly. Yet the ISDS ‘rights’ of foreign corporations to challenge any changes that might negatively impact their profits are strongly entrenched in international trade law. In other words, the power of corporations to use ISDS could strongly undermine any agreement made in Paris if corporations decide to fight the necessary resulting regulatory changes.”
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Mon 05 Oct 2015, 09:03:25

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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Mon 05 Oct 2015, 10:17:05

Keith_McClary wrote:SEPTEMBER 25, 2015
Paris Climate Agreement Threatened by Trade Deals
by JOYCE NELSON
The ISDS clause in many bilateral and regional trade deals allows foreign corporations the right to sue governments for financial compensation if they change regulations that affect profits. Canada, for example, has already been sued under NAFTA for billions of dollars because of changes to regulations, especially to protect the environment. [1]

Van Harten, an internationally-recognized authority on investment law and trade deals, has offered a legal “carve-out” (several paragraphs in length) that climate negotiators could include in a Paris agreement in order to protect signatory countries. [2]

In a forward to Van Harten’s report, Council of Canadians Chair Maude Barlow explains that “many of the same countries pledging to take serious action on climate change are also party to, or are aggressively negotiating, trade and investment deals…So the stage is set for a conflict. If the parties come to a meaningful agreement on climate change in Paris, for it to be successful each country will have to take the promises home to their own legislatures and change laws and practices accordingly. Yet the ISDS ‘rights’ of foreign corporations to challenge any changes that might negatively impact their profits are strongly entrenched in international trade law. In other words, the power of corporations to use ISDS could strongly undermine any agreement made in Paris if corporations decide to fight the necessary resulting regulatory changes.”


"Ol' Charlie stole the handle, and the train it won't stop going, no way to slow down."

They knew that eventually climate regulations would come into effect, and used the time bought through funding climate change denial to undermine those regulations preemptively, while forcing nations to pay them for what they would be forced to leave in the ground.

It's long past too late, so the point is moot. Just another sideshow on the boardwalk of human self-extinction.
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby onlooker » Mon 05 Oct 2015, 10:28:57

It's long past too late, so the point is moot. Just another sideshow on the boardwalk of human self-extinction.

You have to wonder what goes on in the mind of these corporate, banking and government decisions makers. Do they not realize human extinction is what they are facilitating. I cannot not say except to say that these same people utilize methods such as torture and are responsible for the great injustice and inequality in the world. Psychopaths or Sociopaths are the only words I can come up with. :(
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Subjectivist » Sat 31 Oct 2015, 18:42:42

I know we are coming up on the Paris climate negotiations. It seems to me that suddenly climate denier forces are pumping out plenty of news headlines about how Vladimir Putin or other world leaders don't believe in global warming.


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