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If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

Unread postby Revi » Fri 03 Feb 2012, 10:17:39

Loki wrote:As a complete ignoramus on PMs, could someone inform me about off-paper gold and silver transactions? What is the minimum amount it's worth investing for any given transaction, on or off paper? Would you lose money if you only did $500?

As for Chris Martenson, it's a name I've heard quite a bit, I'll check him out.


I think the way to get into PM's is to check out the "cull" silver dollars in the local coin shop. They go for around the spot price of silver and are usually Peace Dollars, although you may get a few Morgans in there as well. They are too worn or too common to have any numismatic value, but are a little less than an ounce of metal. The other way to get into it is to buy half dollars, but be careful to get them from before 1964, because that's when they lost their metal content. Here's a great site to know how much they are worth in metal content:

http://www.coinflation.com/

I think if you can get them at around spot price you are doing well. The price of silver right now is around $33 an ounce, so if you can get silver dollars for $32 or so you are doing okay. I like them because the Peace Dollar is a real work of art as well. It was a commemorative that was pressed into service as the silver dollar in the 20's and 30's. Here's a pic of it:
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Re: If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

Unread postby Corella » Fri 03 Feb 2012, 10:20:03

Resource and property burdens,
bulk plans are prone to trouble, worsening by sophistication.
For mental mitigation, i like the transition-town-concept ;-)

Seems few posters here believe, oil could be substituted, of course theoretically?
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Re: If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Fri 03 Feb 2012, 10:38:37

Yeah but there's no getting around dieoff. Whether the end of the road for the species or just a big chunk of it is in contention.
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Re: If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

Unread postby Revi » Fri 03 Feb 2012, 11:07:34

I like the Transition Town approach. There is no other viable plan. I think the Transition Town is the way to go. I really don't expect to live through the changes, but someone could. We need to start now, if anyone is going to get through this bottleneck. I like Chris Martenson's way of looking at the situation. We showed some of his Crash Course in our Transition meetings last year. It is a great thing to get people in to the concept of peak oil and the end of growth. They can do the whole course on their own, but it helps to get people into it by showing a little and getting them interested.
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Re: If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

Unread postby Revi » Fri 03 Feb 2012, 15:29:48

Here's some good advise for those looking at PM's and buying at coin shops:

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/money/5299 ... h.html.csp

The idea is to buy at close to the metal price, and you can't go wrong.
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Re: If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

Unread postby Satori » Fri 03 Feb 2012, 15:48:06

well worth your time to listen to

gets real depressing around minute 24 or so
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Re: If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Fri 03 Feb 2012, 19:18:06

There are some real beauties to the idea of salvaged currency through existing coins. There is no reason to believe PM coins will lose value. In a collapse scenario, post zombie stage, coins represent the most obvious, convenient and durable means of trade. I think even the cheap silver coins being referenced will outlive the existence of the silver index. Lump metal/ ingots are fine for those trading at the upper end of things, but ordinary folks will find coins easy to familiarize and at least create a regionally stable value.
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Re: If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

Unread postby rangerone314 » Fri 03 Feb 2012, 19:43:59

mmasters wrote:
MD wrote:All commodities will fare well, long into the future, unless the load on resource is lowered by a significant percentage, and that won't happen without great conflict.

We're talking gold and silver though, monetary metals that are tracked by the government and have a history of being seized during monetary crises.

Bury on 2 acres in the woods at 2am, and let the fu**ers try find it in the brambles and mud. (After you mention how it unfortunately got stolen 2 weeks earlier) Should be a fun trek through small streams, swamps, and green briar. Assuming they don't fall on a sharpened log or step on a metal caltrop that some vandals must have dropped in the woods.

Don't know about finding gold or silver. Might find lead, though.
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Re: If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

Unread postby JJ » Fri 03 Feb 2012, 22:17:42

SeaGypsy wrote:There are very many places in the world where gold can be bought for cash with zero government involvement. Then try bringing it home! They aint just scanning for guns and drugs. Gold smuggling is still big business from what I have been hearing.


Chris, my kid made it through customs in LAX with a big wad of gold smushed in his wallet....
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Re: If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Fri 03 Feb 2012, 22:23:24

In worn jewelery is the easiest, with any certificates sent ahead. There are limits but seems like getting through with up to a few hundred thousand dollars worth is not hard.
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Re: If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Fri 03 Feb 2012, 22:40:18

Another point is that it's normal for high end jewelery to have at least 1 usually 2 mock ups which are sold with the original. This is a tradition allowing the owner the privelege of displaying their wealth whilst being the only knower of whether the real item is on display. When you consider this along with the way even 'strict' countries operate their customs procedures, there must be a lot of untraceable 3 cup tricks going on.
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Re: If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

Unread postby Loki » Fri 03 Feb 2012, 23:01:13

Revi wrote:I think the way to get into PM's is to check out the "cull" silver dollars in the local coin shop. They go for around the spot price of silver and are usually Peace Dollars, although you may get a few Morgans in there as well. They are too worn or too common to have any numismatic value, but are a little less than an ounce of metal. The other way to get into it is to buy half dollars, but be careful to get them from before 1964, because that's when they lost their metal content. Here's a great site to know how much they are worth in metal content:


Thanks Revi, you confirmed my suspicion that silver coinage is probably my best bet. I don't have much cash to “invest” (i.e., maintain value in a declining economy). I've focused what little I have on acquiring useful skills and hard goods the last 5+ years, but I don't think it's unreasonable to invest a portion of my meager “wealth” in PMs. A core savings that can't be casually spent and that is more likely to maintain value long-term than the digits in my online bank statement. And something, preferably, that the government knows nothing about.

There must be a good middle ground between hardcore gold buggery and blissful ignorance of terms like hyperinflation.
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Re: If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

Unread postby MD » Fri 03 Feb 2012, 23:09:55

I just can't believe all of the regular po.com members that have totally derailed this thread into discussions about commodities.

It's ridiculous. this is a PEAK OIL site. The core message is about ENERGY, and all you so-called peak oil proponents have completely derailed the thread.

What bunch of losers.
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Re: If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

Unread postby Loki » Fri 03 Feb 2012, 23:17:04

MD wrote:I just can't believe all of the regular po.com members that have totally derailed this thread into discussions about commodities.

It's ridiculous. this is a PEAK OIL site. The core message is about ENERGY, and all you so-called peak oil proponents have completely derailed the thread.

What bunch of losers.

Thanks for the input. Any more helpful insights you can throw our way?
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Re: If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

Unread postby Daniel_Plainview » Fri 03 Feb 2012, 23:22:25

MD wrote:I just can't believe all of the regular po.com members that have totally derailed this thread into discussions about commodities.

It's ridiculous. this is a PEAK OIL site. The core message is about ENERGY, and all you so-called peak oil proponents have completely derailed the thread.

What bunch of losers.

I hope the mods move all of the gold-bug material to another thread.

Discussing gold is not a bad thing, but diffusing the importance of this magnificent video is a travesty ... This is the best PO video currently available ... the best in years ... and nobody on this thread (or this forum) seems to appreciate that. Very disappointing.
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Re: If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Fri 03 Feb 2012, 23:28:45

It would be good to see a thread purely on investment strategy and energy commodities.
I don't play the market, just observe and take notes, and I haven't lost yet MD :P
Worthwhile energy plays seem to get lost in all the bubble and froth, cold fusion & miraculous advancements pending etc. Where are the solid plays and where is the thread to bring them together? Hedging strategies & funds management?

Currently there is nothing to practically replace the trading volumes than dollar hegemony with Euro chasing up the rear and a basket of weighted currency/ commodities in process of replacing this system over the next several years. I recently started a thread headed 'TEOTW Postponed, Money Printing Guaranteed until 2015.' I do believe it could snap but at the same time I believe there are going to be opportunities for timely energy players for the forseeable future.
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Re: If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

Unread postby Loki » Fri 03 Feb 2012, 23:36:50

Daniel_Plainview, sorry, can't watch streaming video on my Internet connection. A better summary by the OP could have notified us of the urgent importance of this rather long video. I think most of us here are aware of the gravity of peak oil, generally speaking.

Chris Martenson is best known as a gold bug, even I know that despite my studious avoidance of PM discussions (hence my novice question). Seems rather natural talk of PMs would ensue.

A quote from the WSJ:
Gold as a store of value has been getting a bad rap from some quarters at least since the days of economist John Maynard Keynes, who once sneeringly called it a “barbarous relic.” Contemporary gold lovers bridle at such slights. “Owning bullion,” says gold investor Chris Martenson, 46, a scientist from Montague, Mass., “is buying insurance against the unknown.”
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 12882.html
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Re: If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

Unread postby Daniel_Plainview » Fri 03 Feb 2012, 23:46:25

Loki wrote:Daniel_Plainview, sorry, can't watch streaming video on my Internet connection.


No prob.

I think most of us here are aware of the gravity of peak oil, generally speaking.


Undoubtedly much of this material is old news to long-standing po.com members; however, this video rises above all others, IMO. It's the best of the best. Chris is in absolutely top form, and even his impromptu answers to wide-ranging questions (at the end) are nearly perfect. This is a magnificent presentation that draws together all of the important concepts in clear, cogent, concise, and understandable language.

This video is the Cornies' worst nightmare.
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Re: If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

Unread postby mmasters » Sat 04 Feb 2012, 01:56:00

It is a very good presentation, I think the gold conclusion is a bit shaky though.

Even he acknowledges on his blog the possibility of it getting called in to back some form of international currency. A stopgap measure that will surely be instituted given enough time. All part of the central banks' big bag of tricks.
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