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If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

Unread postby Ibon » Sun 03 Dec 2017, 12:25:46

pstarr wrote:Gold is actually quite reasonably priced, has mostly followed inflation. Sounds like a nice conservative investment. Unlike the crap holding up our rentier capitalistic economy

So what would you rather have when the SHTF. A little stockpile of gold or a $105.4 million Andy Warhol soup can? You could probably grab a third rate Leonardo for $500 million tomorrow. Or have built another $200 million 30,000 sq. ft. McMansion.

KJ, you of anyone here understand the valuelessness of what we have created. Why not gold? When all the stupid money try to flood out of the various bubble markets (they are all bubble markets, read Martenson) in the next panic, gold will looks pretty sweet in comparison. Forget about your preconceptions.


land. farm land. trailer parks. Excellent investments.
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Re: If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

Unread postby pstarr » Sun 03 Dec 2017, 12:33:11

Trailer parks lol

I have a young friend who made a killing in the pot business. He bought a house for himself (and I believe paid off his Mom's mortgage) and 5 acres right outside the city. He put a big junk of cash into redwood slabs, slices of old growth 5' by 10' by 4". Dozens. Kind of sad but . . .

The funny thing is, his next gambit will by school buses. They are not considered homes and are allowed to stay parked on a property . . . forever . . . without regard for housing density and municipal services. He plans on populating his property with a hippie/surfer commune lol Just rip out the seas and voila . . . a home! They come up for auction all over the state for a few thousand $. Something about contracts and insurance means they sell, even if in good condition.
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Re: If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

Unread postby GHung » Sun 03 Dec 2017, 12:59:05

pstarr wrote:Gold is actually quite reasonably priced, has mostly followed inflation. Sounds like a nice conservative investment. Unlike the crap holding up our rentier capitalistic economy

So what would you rather have when the SHTF. A little stockpile of gold or a $105.4 million Andy Warhol soup can? You could probably grab a third rate Leonardo for $500 million tomorrow. Or have built another $200 million 30,000 sq. ft. McMansion.

KJ, you of anyone here understand the valuelessness of what we have created. Why not gold? When all the stupid money try to flood out of the various bubble markets, gold will looks pretty sweet in comparison. Read Martenson, compare asset prices to GDP. Forget about your preconceptions.


KJ, above, said; "Just saying .... the idea with metals is to buy low and sell high, just as with stocks and commodities."

Precious metals are more than that, especially if you have physical possession. Whatever their value, they can't go POOF overnight. Gold and silver are seen as a hedge by most doom oriented investors, as was the case for me in the early 2000s. Made a killing about 8-10 years later. Helped pay off what remained of a small mortgage at a time folks we knew were losing their homes, or struggling greatly with up-side-down mortgages. Silver went from the $5 range to near $40 at the same time most stocks were tanking.

Nothing wrong with gambling on a little insurance. Most investments carry some risk. If everything tanks, even precious metals, at least you have some pretty coins to play with. Stocks? All you'll have is a statement showing your net worth has gone POOF.

My first/best investment was our property with arable acreage, good water, good climate, good neighbors, in an area that isn't over-populated. I'm betting that our county tax people would accept precious metals for taxes when other fiat assets go poof!

Gold and silver are about the only non-consumable asset that has gone UP in Venezuela over the last 5 years, unless one owned foreign stocks, which I doubt many regular folks there do.

I saw Warren Buffet this morning on "Sunday Morning". He said that people who are focused primarily on accumulating paper wealth are basically fools. "Your wealth can be determined by how many people love you". Little else.
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Re: If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

Unread postby pstarr » Sun 03 Dec 2017, 13:09:43

"My first/best investment was our property with arable acreage, good water, good climate, good neighbors, in an area that isn't over-populated. I'm betting that our county tax people would accept precious metals for taxes when other fiat assets go poof!

I saw Warren Buffet this morning on "Sunday Morning". He said that people who are focused primarily on accumulating paper wealth are basically fools. "Your wealth can be determined by how many people love you". Little else."


That's key. All the guns and gold in the world won't be any help in a bugout doomstead. You need good neighbors with a variety of skills and land.
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Re: If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sun 03 Dec 2017, 14:42:10

Just saying, the one thing that precious metal merchants never talk about, just as stock brokers never talk about such things, is the number of people that lose their investments or most of them. The stats for metals are far worse that the stock market, as only about 1 out of 7 investors actually realizes a profit. The one in seven figure is a quote I heard on FBN from Lou Dobbs, don't know any more about it than what he said.

If somebody approaches me and offers me gold or silver after the crash, for my food, water, energy, or land - I will say NO. Hell, what use do I have for gold and silver? That stuff is as useless and valueless as currency IMHO.
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Re: If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

Unread postby GHung » Sun 03 Dec 2017, 15:10:51

That stuff is as useless and valueless as currency IMHO.


That's why countries have added hundreds-of-millions of gold ounces to their sovereign funds in the last 10 years. Useless and valueless.
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Re: If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sun 03 Dec 2017, 15:21:27

Nobody is arguing that gold and silver are not a hedge against a government devaluing it's own currency by printing and spending. During the period before the big power down, it has value. In the barter economy following the big FF power down, metals have no value other than as metals. I would not trade water, food, clothing, energy, or land for metals after the crash. I might give you the barter equivalent of twenty dollars a pound for your gold because it is easily melted and cast into bullets and fishing weights and the like, and thus is about as valuable as lead, and viable as a lead substitute. Presently I buy lead ingots for $18.99/lb retail at the local hardware store.

Arguing that gold has value as a currency substitute in a barter economy is foolish in the extreme. As was mentioned above, land has lasting value after it is developed as it can produce food, drinking water, energy, and fibers for clothing over the long term.

If you are holding gold to be a substitute for currencies, you are welcome to your opinion, but I believe that most people will not share that opinion.

Edit: OK, on second thought, I would up my offer to $30/lb in barter equivalence for your gold. Gold is pretty and when transformed into jewelry, has value that lead does not have, as women (and some men) collect and wear jewelry. But if you are buying your gold at the spot price of about $17,000./lb today, you cannot expect that it will hold that value in the barter economy. Most gold hucksters would assure you that it would become MORE VALUEABLE after the economy crashes. But they are assuming it has monetary value in an economy with no money. I would guess that it would NOT have such value. In fact I would value a pound of fine whiskey more than a pound of gold.
Last edited by KaiserJeep on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 15:43:51, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

Unread postby GHung » Sun 03 Dec 2017, 15:43:33

KaiserJeep wrote:Nobody is arguing that gold and silver are not a hedge against a government devaluing it's own currency by printing and spending. During the period before the big power down, it has value. In the barter economy following the big FF power down, metals have no value other than as metals. I would not trade water, food, clothing, energy, or land for metals after the crash. I might give you the barter equivalent of twenty dollars a pound for your gold because it is easily melted and cast into bullets and fishing weights and the like, and thus is about as valuable as lead, and viable as a lead substitute. Presently I buy lead ingots for $18.99/lb retail at the local hardware store.

Arguing that gold has value as a currency substitute in a barter economy is foolish in the extreme. As was mentioned above, land has lasting value after it is developed as it can produce food, drinking water, energy, and fibers for clothing over the long term.

If you are holding gold to be a substitute for currencies, you are welcome to your opinion, but I believe that most people will not share that opinion.


While there have been few times in history when gold and silver didn't have some value, you may be right. That's why having too much of anything in your basket is not wise. If gold won't work, maybe my stockpiles of toilet paper, toothpaste, bullets and bar-b-que sauce will be worth something, eh? Or the hundred pair of athletic socks I got for $10 8O

Mostly, I have skills to trade.
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Re: If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

Unread postby farmlad » Sun 03 Dec 2017, 21:42:39

The funny thing is, his next gambit will by school buses
Thanks that is an awesome Idea. When times get just a bit tougher in my area I imagine a number of city folks will be wishing for a place to call home out in the country. I was thinking down the line of sea containers and trailers. Never thought about school busses. Hey the windows are already in place and very portable.
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Re: If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

Unread postby pstarr » Sun 03 Dec 2017, 22:24:01

farmlad wrote:
The funny thing is, his next gambit will by school buses
Thanks that is an awesome Idea. When times get just a bit tougher in my area I imagine a number of city folks will be wishing for a place to call home out in the country. I was thinking down the line of sea containers and trailers. Never thought about school busses. Hey the windows are already in place and very portable.

The seats unbolt easily.
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Instant Tiny Home. very trendy :) But kind of pretentious. Adding heavy wood siding to an existing waterproof shell. Really?
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Re: If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Mon 04 Dec 2017, 01:09:27

Nothing new about repurpusing an old school bus. They have been using them as portable hunting camps for decades.
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Re: If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Mon 04 Dec 2017, 05:59:06

They are way over engineered for tiny house/ motorhome purposes. Usually the springs set up for several tonne of people as cargo. Doesn't matter if it's not going to be traveling much though. Also usually the head height isn't much over 6'.
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Re: If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Mon 04 Dec 2017, 11:05:12

SeaGypsy wrote:They are way over engineered for tiny house/ motorhome purposes. Usually the springs set up for several tonne of people as cargo. Doesn't matter if it's not going to be traveling much though. Also usually the head height isn't much over 6'.
There is little to no insulation in the walls and roof so a good used RV is a better option if you face winter temperatures.
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Re: If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

Unread postby pstarr » Mon 04 Dec 2017, 11:28:26

vtsnowedin wrote:
SeaGypsy wrote:They are way over engineered for tiny house/ motorhome purposes. Usually the springs set up for several tonne of people as cargo. Doesn't matter if it's not going to be traveling much though. Also usually the head height isn't much over 6'.
There is little to no insulation in the walls and roof so a good used RV is a better option if you face winter temperatures.

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Re: If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Mon 04 Dec 2017, 12:11:04

I like old school busses re-purposed as tiny homes, they are just kitschy, a combination of practicality (because they hold the taxman at bay) and stylish with the shabby chic that epitomizes the Redwood Curtain area.

Meanwhile, hearkening back to Chris M, who has been a huckster for precious metals forever, what do the rest of you think of Gold/Silver as a hedge against Doom? As I have plainly stated, my only post-crash use for prescious metals is as metals. I don't believe they will hold any value beyond that. At today's gold pricing of $1275.80 per troy ounce, and with 14.5833 troy ounces per lb, it costs an outrageous $18,605.37 per lb for gold. Like I said before, as a metal it's probably usable as bullets, fishing weights, and jewelry. But at that outrageous selling price in fiat currency, it is very very expensive to acquire today (1000X more expensive) versus lead ingots which can be used as bullets and weights, and can be acquired at the corner hardware store for $18.99 per lb in fiat currency today.

The gold hucksters maintain that gold increases in value after the crash. Not to me, it doesn't. How about the rest of you? I disclose that the only PM's we own are the gold/silver jewelry I have given the wife over the years, plus one gold and two silver coins (all vintage American currency) with a few hundred dollars total value as collectable coins.

GHung says that PM's will maintain value after the crash, and proves his point by using Venezuela, yet another place destroyed by Marxism, where gold and silver retain value that the busted currency does not. But I say that value only exists because of the outrageously high exchange rates for gold/silver in the rest of the world, where functioning economies with currencies remain. If that were not the case, Venezuelan silversmith's and jewelers would be fashioning beads and jewelry from these metals, hoping to trade same to some fool for food.
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Re: If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Mon 04 Dec 2017, 12:30:07

My precious metal is painted John Deere Green.
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Re: If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Mon 04 Dec 2017, 12:35:57

OK, I interpret that as supporting my position that PM's only have value as metals, and that you do not own gold/silver.

The rest of you need not be specific, since this is an online Forum visible to all. We will assume all those that deny any special value to PM's don't own significant amounts of same. Those that favor PM's as after-crash currency probably do own a few hundred $, or more - so don't tell us how much, just say you think it has special post-crash value as the only real money.
Last edited by KaiserJeep on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 12:40:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

Unread postby GHung » Mon 04 Dec 2017, 12:39:03

KJ said; "GHung says that PM's will maintain value after the crash...."

Lets go upthread and see what Ghung actually said:

"While there have been few times in history when gold and silver didn't have some value, you may be right. That's why having too much of anything in your basket is not wise."
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Re: If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Mon 04 Dec 2017, 12:41:19

OK, but YOU are betting that post-crash gold has value beyond fishing weights and jewelry, are you not?
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Re: If You're Not Listening to Chris Martenson...

Unread postby Cog » Mon 04 Dec 2017, 12:53:55

If I had listened to Chris Martenson, I would have bailed out of the market in 2009 and locked in my losses. Betting against a doomer is almost always a sure way to make money. Case in point, 2017 stock gains.

But in answer to above, I don't have any pm's and don't expect I'll be acquiring any. They simply aren't a good investment.
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