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I can't believe China is so obsessed with the automobile...

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

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Re: China overtakes the world in auto sales! Up 78% in '09

Unread postby WildRose » Thu 15 Oct 2009, 23:19:19

americandream wrote:They've only just abandoned the bike! 30 years ago, Beijing was notorious for its bike jams. Google it.


Well, yes. And the older generation still ride bikes and walk everywhere and can be seen doing Tai Chi in the parks. But cars seem to be appealing
to the younger people (young adults to middle-aged). Now that the idea of "a car for every household" seems possible for the Chinese, it would be unlikely that they'd abandon the desire to own one.
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Re: China overtakes the world in auto sales! Up 78% in '09

Unread postby americandream » Fri 16 Oct 2009, 02:22:32

Obviously cars are appealing. Advertisers are selling the dream to the poor sods, aren't they?

WildRose wrote:
americandream wrote:They've only just abandoned the bike! 30 years ago, Beijing was notorious for its bike jams. Google it.


Well, yes. And the older generation still ride bikes and walk everywhere and can be seen doing Tai Chi in the parks. But cars seem to be appealing
to the younger people (young adults to middle-aged). Now that the idea of "a car for every household" seems possible for the Chinese, it would be unlikely that they'd abandon the desire to own one.
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China's carmarket becomes world's biggest

Unread postby Bas » Thu 22 Oct 2009, 04:45:58

China has just rolled its 10-millionth car off the assembly line. Scott Tong reports the country is currently king of the auto industry. Before today, only Japan and the U.S. assembled 10 million vehicles in a single year. China did it in just over 9 months. By contrast, U.S. auto plants this year have cranked out just 4 million units.

China, in fact, is tops in two categories: world's top producer and consumer this year, thanks to government incentives. Those will end, just as Cash for Clunkers did. But analyst Jerry Huang at CSM Worldwide doesn't see the China's car market breaking down.

Jerry Huang: Customers in mid-size cars or SUVs, they don't care about the government incentive or subsidy. So there are still plenty of customers in China which will buy their cars next year.

Top sellers in China are Hyundai, Nissan and Volkswagen, along with Chinese brand BYD. Huang says China's emerging consumers are just now trading up and replacing their first cars. Which gives rise to a brand new job description in China: the used-car salesman.
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Re: China overtakes the world in auto sales! Up 78% in '09

Unread postby Bas » Thu 22 Oct 2009, 10:06:10

Sorry SG, hadn't seen your thread. Anyway, did someone say gas consumption in China is down? Actually it's up.
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Re: China overtakes the world in auto sales! Up 78% in '09

Unread postby mos6507 » Thu 22 Oct 2009, 10:29:49

I thought China making EVs means "bye bye peak oil"?

:lol:
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Re: China overtakes the world in auto sales! Up 78% in '09

Unread postby americandream » Thu 22 Oct 2009, 13:24:23

Strange that innit! You add 1 billion additional pigs to the trough and your purchase of swill drops :lol:

mos6507 wrote:I thought China making EVs means "bye bye peak oil"?

:lol:
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I can't believe China is so obsessed with the automobile...

Unread postby DesuMaiden » Sat 01 Nov 2014, 20:01:40

There ain't enough oil in the world for more cars in China. Watch this youtube video where the Chinese are driving cars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTKRk4EEhYM

There is no way in hell they even sustain an automobile fleet the size of the USA's. That's because there ain't enough space in a country as overpopulated as China. China has 1.3 billion people. There is no way they have as many cars per capita as the USA. Not by a long shot.

There is NO way in hell there is enough oil the world for more Chinese cars. It takes an uncounted number of barrels to produce a car (by all estimates about 27 to 54 barrels of oil to manufacture a car). And a car will use an incredible amount of oil in its life-time. If China had as many cars as the USA per capita, it would require 7 oil fields the size of the ones in Saudi Arabia to meet that kind of demand for oil.

I'm visiting China next tuesday. I can't imagine how crowded and chaotic the roads would be with all of those cars on it. I just hope I don't get run over by any cars, lol.
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Re: I can't believe China is so obsessed with the automobile

Unread postby MD » Sat 01 Nov 2014, 20:08:11

Yep it has been amazing to watch that develop over the last decade or two. China has allegedly leap-frogged the west in certain areas, but in this regard I think they missed a real opportunity.
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Re: I can't believe China is so obsessed with the automobile

Unread postby DesuMaiden » Sat 01 Nov 2014, 20:13:24

MD wrote:Yep it has been amazing to watch that develop over the last decade or two. China has allegedly leap-frogged the west in certain areas, but in this regard I think they missed a real opportunity.

The Chinese are screwed just as badly as North America. Because with peak oil, they will also suffer the same economic consequences as us (the USA and Canada). They are becoming too reliant on oil that they will suffer as much as everyone else who's dependent on oil.

By the way, there is no way in hell we can meet the demand for Chinese oil consumption. There is simply not enough oil to meet the USA's demand for oil--let alone adding another major consumer of oil. By 2015, it is estimated that China will consume 15 million barrels of oil a day...a 6 million barrel increase from 2009. Where is that 6 million barrels of oil going to come from? You can't get it from anywhere that is the answer.

China's economy will probably collapse even harder than the USA's because the population is just so damn big. What would happen when everyone looses their jobs when USA companies stop buying goods from them? I'm lucky I don't live in China, and that I live in Canada. Canada is probably one of the better places to be when peak oil happens.
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Re: I can't believe China is so obsessed with the automobile

Unread postby sparky » Sat 01 Nov 2014, 20:33:50

.
People love cars .... repeat . people love cars
get your head around this absolute fact ,even screaming babies love cars
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Re: I can't believe China is so obsessed with the automobile

Unread postby DesuMaiden » Sat 01 Nov 2014, 20:35:12

sparky wrote:.
People love cars .... repeat . people love cars
get your head around this absolute fact ,even screaming babies love cars

Cars are **** terrible. They pollute the environment, and cause car accidents.
Last edited by Tanada on Fri 07 Nov 2014, 23:05:12, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: profanity cut
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Re: I can't believe China is so obsessed with the automobile

Unread postby Shaved Monkey » Sat 01 Nov 2014, 20:42:26

Its not just China
A quote from Australia's right wing nut job Prime Minister's(Australia's version of GW Bush) book
“The humblest person is king in his own car”
His ambition for his term in government is to be known for building the roads of the 21st Century.
He made a commitment his government will not fund rail.
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Re: I can't believe China is so obsessed with the automobile

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sat 01 Nov 2014, 21:01:34

Interesting video link, thanks for sharing -- and tell us about your trip to China, if you want to share.

I'll just say..

* Chinese want the "American Dream." Nobody is going to be able to tell them not to want Stuff and cars and McMansions and Kentucky Fried Chicken. They like these things, and there are over a billion Chinese.

* In polling, Chinese are very optimistic about growth and where their country is headed and rising up in the world. The average Chinese believes his life will be better next year and the year after, in contrast to more pessimistic Americans and Westerners.

It's all perspective. The average Chinese has a lot less than we do, but they're hopeful, cuz they're right next year they will have more. Whereas we are stagnating, and declining (on average).
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Re: I can't believe China is so obsessed with the automobile

Unread postby DesuMaiden » Sat 01 Nov 2014, 21:48:35

Sixstrings wrote:Interesting video link, thanks for sharing -- and tell us about your trip to China, if you want to share.

I'll just say..

* Chinese want the "American Dream." Nobody is going to be able to tell them not to want Stuff and cars and McMansions and Kentucky Fried Chicken. They like these things, and there are over a billion Chinese.

* In polling, Chinese are very optimistic about growth and where their country is headed and rising up in the world. The average Chinese believes his life will be better next year and the year after, in contrast to more pessimistic Americans and Westerners.

It's all perspective. The average Chinese has a lot less than we do, but they're hopeful, cuz they're right next year they will have more. Whereas we are stagnating, and declining (on average).

There ain't going to be enough oil to sustain the Chinese economic growth. I'm sorry, but there just ain't enough oil for China.
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Re: I can't believe China is so obsessed with the automobile

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Sat 01 Nov 2014, 22:21:54

"There ain't going to be enough oil to sustain the Chinese economic growth. I'm sorry, but there just ain't enough oil for China." There's more than enough oil in the world for China to continue to grow for some time. All they have to do is outbid enough of the other oil consumers for what's out there. So far they've have been doing a pretty good job of just that. I know the focus here is PO: the max rate of global oil production. But as far the growth of any county's economy that will likely depend on when they reach peak oil/energy acquisition. So far China's rate of growth of its oil acquisition has greatly exceeded any other country. Will that continue? I don't know. But what I do know for a fact is that China has been kicking every other oil importer's ass in that matter.
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Re: I can't believe China is so obsessed with the automobile

Unread postby kublikhan » Sat 01 Nov 2014, 22:37:03

Rockman beat me to it :) They say a picture is worth a thousand words, so I'll leave you with these two DesuMaiden. I'll let you decide who is getting the better bang for their buck.

Asia oil consumption:
Image

vs

US oil consumption:
Image
The oil barrel is half-full.
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Re: I can't believe China is so obsessed with the automobile

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Sat 01 Nov 2014, 22:51:23

k - Perfect pic. I've not spent much time in China. Just roaming the streets in a commercial area for a couple of weeks while adopting my daughter back in 2000. The boys on the bike look like they might be rolling out to party. But doesn't compare at all to how I saw commerce being carried out with small piece of crap vehicles and bicycles. I would just hang out in front of little ma and pop shops. The young one were always anxious to practice their English on me. Mostly guys. And what was their big motivation behind owning a vehicle: business enterprise . And why: because that was the only hope of getting a girl friend/wife.

Sex has always been very motivational. LOL.
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Re: I can't believe China is so obsessed with the automobile

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sat 01 Nov 2014, 22:52:12

I have counted 14 people getting off a 125cc tricycle in the Philippines, where there are 2 motor scooters for every car. The actual traffic in most places is more like 80% on two wheels as most people have access to a scooter & they are very cheap to run. In Indonesia on a couple of recent trips it appears about 90% of traffic is on two wheels. China of course has a continental climate favouring 4 wheels & a capsule (car/bus/railcar).

The structure of local economies & income scales is very different throughout Asia. Most places people can walk out to the front gate and within a few seconds walk find a store selling the basics of life very cheaply. The age of the mega mall has begun, but is a very long way from wiping out the micro economics. Also the idea that suddenly people working 6 times 12 hour days a week for average less than $100 are suddenly going to match western, particularly American consumption levels is lacking in depth of thought on the topic.
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Re: I can't believe China is so obsessed with the automobile

Unread postby WildRose » Sat 01 Nov 2014, 22:55:12

Hi, Desu

I visited China in 2008, it was an amazing experience and I did my best to learn as much about the people and the country as I could.

When in Beijing, I could hardly believe the traffic - I expected to see more bikes (and there were a lot of folks on bikes), but the cars! Beijing is a huge city, and we were told that some people had to drive 3 to 4 hours in rush-hour traffic to get home from work. I wondered whether road construction had kept up with car ownership, since Shanghai is a larger city but seemed to flow much better.

The Chinese don't consume the amount of oil per capita that we in Canada (and the States) do, as they have much smaller living spaces and generally hang their clothes to dry, don't use all the appliances we use.

What parts of China will you be visiting?
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Re: I can't believe China is so obsessed with the automobile

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Sun 02 Nov 2014, 00:15:14

WildRose wrote:The Chinese don't consume the amount of oil per capita that we in Canada (and the States) do, as they have much smaller living spaces and generally hang their clothes to dry, don't use all the appliances we use.
Your clothes dryer in Alberta runs on coal.
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