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Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of hydrocarbon depletion.

Re: Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Unread postby Daniel_Plainview » Thu 24 May 2012, 09:29:24

Well, at least the esteemed leaders of the Eurozone are meeting and putting the finishing touches on a plan for GROWTH ... oh, wait ...

NYT: Euro Zone Crisis Boils as Leaders Fail to Signal New Steps
BERLIN — With Greece’s membership in the euro zone teetering, fears of bank insolvency rising and Europe’s leaders bickering about what to do, the euro crisis is once again intensifying and threatening to undermine fragile growth globally.

At a summit meeting in Brussels on Wednesday, regional leaders failed to signal any significant new steps to stimulate the sputtering regional economy or resolve the competing agendas of President François Hollande of France, who favors stronger action to spur growth, and his German counterpart, Chancellor Angela Merkel, who has opposed aggressive moves to ease the pressure on Europe’s weakest economies.

Yet, the urgency for a solution to the region’s debt crisis, now in its third year, may never have been greater.

With international economic monitors warning that the Continent could slide back into recession, Spain has watched its borrowing costs climb to unsustainable levels, as concerns rise about the country’s weakened banking sector. Fears continue to grow that it will be difficult to avoid a messy divorce between Greece and the euro zone, with still unpredictable consequences for markets and other struggling European economies, including Spain and Italy.

In a conference call held on Monday, finance ministry officials from the euro zone countries were urged to make sure contingency plans were in place for all eventualities, including a Greek exit, one European official involved said.

“You have a debt crisis, a banking crisis and a political crisis. Those are the three crises that are occurring simultaneously,” said Thomas Cooley, economics professor at the New York University Stern School of Business. “Anything that undermines confidence in the financial system is bad, not just for the European financial system but the U.S. financial system as well.”

Problems in Europe pose a threat to President Obama’s re-election plans as well, because a deeper slump there could drag down the United States economy, as happened a year ago. In a recent report, the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development cited Europe’s potential slump as the leading threat to global growth.

Some European leaders had tried to play down expectations for Wednesday’s meeting, one they said was only a prelude to a formal meeting scheduled for the end of June. “Each of us spoke and put forward our position,” said Ms. Merkel, addressing the discussion of jointly issued debt, known as euro bonds, after the meeting. “François Hollande spoke as he said he would. It was a very differentiated discussion.”

But in an indication of developing fissures, Mr. Hollande, who has been vocal in supporting euro bonds, said before the meeting that “the euro zone must show that it can support Greece.” Rather than suggesting a decisive new approach or finding common solutions, the leaders appear to be increasingly at odds.

In many ways their most important mission may be to quell their own infighting. The demand from France and others for bonds jointly issued by the 17 members of the euro currency union, to pool the borrowing risk, has grown louder, even as the opposition in Germany has grown more rancorous.

German officials said that Ms. Merkel, after arriving, met briefly with Greece’s caretaker prime minister, Panagiotis Pikrammenos. They said Ms. Merkel had told him Germany would do what it could to help Greece, but added as she has many times before that Athens would have to abide by the agreements it made with its lenders.

On June 17, Greece will hold a second round of elections that is being treated as a referendum on the loan agreement, and the date is evolving into a deadline for European leaders to offer some sort of hope to the Greek people. But it is not clear what form that might take.

The German central bank, the Bundesbank, warned in its monthly report Wednesday that the Greek situation was “extremely worrying,” but that easing Greece’s bailout terms “would damage confidence in all euro-area agreements and treaties and strongly weaken incentives for national reform and consolidation measures.”

Instead of euro bonds, less controversial measures, like increased financing for the European Investment Bank, the repurposing of existing European structural funds and even “project bonds” jointly issued for specific undertakings, are likely to be pursued. Spain’s prime minister, Mariano Rajoy, has called for more aggressive action by the European Central Bank.

Mr. Hollande has promised to find a way to generate economic growth not only in France but also for reeling economies like Greece. He has proposed that euro member nations pool their resources to make project bonds available for initiatives intended to promote growth. In the process, he has set himself as an opponent of Ms. Merkel and the austerity policies associated with her stance for fiscal rectitude.

Although the German and French finance ministers praised each other and spoke of their friendly and cooperative relations after their preliminary meeting in Berlin on Monday, the level of frustration in the German capital over Mr. Hollande’s vocal demand for euro bonds has become increasingly evident.

Many economists believe that euro bonds offer the surest way to end the sovereign debt crisis and for European states to restore growth. But in Berlin, many policy makers view them with skepticism, as a way for other countries to tap the creditworthiness of Germany rather than facing up to difficult but necessary economic reforms. “It is clear who wants what from whom,” said Thomas Steffen, a deputy finance minister, in an address on fiscal policy on Wednesday. “A lot of people want something from us.”

While talk has focused on how isolated Ms. Merkel has become in her stance against euro bonds and in favor of pressing deficit cuts, she is far from alone. Many Eastern European countries, which suffered through their own austerity programs to gain entry to the euro zone and are still poorer than Greece, have little sympathy for Athens. And the Austrians, Finns and Dutch have thus far hewed to Ms. Merkel’s line.

“We did not expect a decision tonight,” Mr. Hollande said after the meeting. “There was no conflict, no confrontation between the various countries and some were even more against euro bonds than Ms. Merkel.”

Ms. Merkel said Wednesday that the German Constitution and the European treaties forbade countries from assuming one another’s debts. “Aside from that, I don’t believe that they would make any contribution to boosting growth in the euro zone,” she said.

Mr. Cooley, of New York University, said: “I don’t think we’ll get all the way to the unraveling of the euro system. The way they are approaching solutions to it is the one that’s going to cause the most possible pain and damage to the countries on the periphery.”
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Re: Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Unread postby Daniel_Plainview » Thu 24 May 2012, 09:41:46

We must break up the failing euro
As the struggle to preserve the euro goes on, two worrying trends are emerging. One is the migration of able and energetic young people away from the poorer eurozone countries. The other is the increasing belief that, since the euro is shaky, it is better to have your deposits in German banks than in those of the weaker countries.

Unless addressed at once, both these developments may become irreversible – but the second is the more urgent. The domestic banks of weaker eurozone members are losing deposits. The pontifications of European leaders have given the impression that Greece may revert to a new national currency. Depositors who envisage their euro deposits being converted into devalued new drachma are withdrawing them and keeping the money in euro notes (a liability of the European Central Bank) or in deposits with German banks. It amounts to a slow run on Greek banks.

This is greatly weakening the banks from which the money is withdrawn and lessens any chance of recovery in that economy. It may already be too late to alleviate the position in Greece, but this trend may develop in other weak eurozone countries.

Once a bank run starts to develop, it is already too late to take action. So now is the time to act, to ensure that a euro deposited with any sound bank will be worth the same as one with a bank domiciled in a strong country. Otherwise the banking sectors of the weaker countries may be seriously damaged.

Given Germany’s understandable reluctance to underwrite the euro system without limit, it is difficult to do this. But unless a way is found, the situation may get a whole lot worse without much warning.

One way would be to accept that the opportunity to “save the euro” has been lost and for all 17 members to decide at once to revert to national currencies. The chance of differentiating between eurozone countries, weak and strong, has been lost. This is how it could be done.

There must be no advance warning. Experience shows that currency break-ups, like devaluations, have to be handled so as to avoid anticipatory speculative activity. The essential requirement is a single, unequivocal decision to revert to national currencies, reached confidentially by all 17 governments and announced without prior notice.

The decision would be that all obligations and rights denominated in euros would be converted legally into rights and obligations denominated in new national currencies, with each euro henceforth to be divided into the 17 national currencies in the proportions in which member states hold capital in the ECB. All 17 governments would undertake to legislate to confirm this.


The conversion would apply not only to notes, bank deposits and loans, but also to bonds, including sovereign bonds, and to commercial contractual rights. There would be no difference between the worth of a euro deposit with a German bank and one with a Greek bank. Legal disputes about commercial obligations would mostly be avoided.

In theory, the aggregated values of the fractions of each euro should be the same as the value of the euro itself, but in practice there would be a discount from the previously prevailing value because of the need to unwind the agglomeration of national currencies. The holders of what were euros would want to sell the fractions they did not want and in exchange buy the fractions sold by others, so that all would end up holding the currency they wanted.

There would be a five-day bank holiday to enable foreign exchange markets to prepare.

Euro notes would continue to circulate until the new national currency notes were available. It would not be possible to unwind the euro notes while they were in circulation. But where quantities of notes are held, they could be deposited with a bank to effect the exchanges desired.

The advantage of the plan outlined above is certainty, combined with only limited dislocation. Although the new Deutschmark would be in demand and the new drachma would no doubt attract a discount, there is no reason to suppose that buyers or sellers would behave irrationally. Sensible values would quickly emerge; these currency variations are what is needed anyway in order to achieve competitiveness. Confidence would soon start to reappear.
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Re: Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Unread postby Daniel_Plainview » Thu 24 May 2012, 09:48:34

Euro Crisis: Is the Currency (Finally) Doomed?
Since the start of Europe’s debt crisis in 2009, there has been a steady drumbeat of predictions that the euro was doomed. The problems were too intractable, the debts too large, the political will too feeble. So far, the doomsayers have been wrong. The leaders of Europe have managed to put a bandage here and a few stitches there to keep the monetary union together. But now we really have to ask if the game is up. The years of half-measures, misguided policy and delusional stubbornness may finally be building up to crush the euro, like a cartoon snowball rolling downhill. Financial markets are clearly smelling an approaching debacle – the euro this week hit its lowest level against the dollar since mid-2010.

Let’s take a quick look at the mounting evidence of impending catastrophe:

Europe has all but admitted that Greece will exit the euro zone.
It seems impossible to me that the second round of elections in Greece on June 17 will produce a government that will strictly adhere to the austerity measures agreed to by the previous government in return for European Union bailout funds. Yet German Chancellor Angela Merkel has made it clear she has no intention of renegotiating. “We want Greece to remain in the euro zone,” she said after Wednesday’s summit of E.U. leaders in Brussels. “But the precondition is that Greece upholds the commitments it has made.” With that attitude, the leaders of Europe might as well boot Athens out of the union right now. Unless someone is willing to bend here, Greece won’t get its rescue money, and will likely run out of funds by early July, which could force the country to reissue its own currency. No wonder European finance ministers earlier this week talked of the need for contingency plans to combat a Greek exit.

If a failed bailout doesn’t push Greece out of the euro zone, the slow-motion bank run will. Unless something is done to stop the flow of deposits out of Greek banks, the sector will eventually fail, and that, too, could propel Greece to ditch the euro. And if that happens, the Greek bank run could spread to other weak euro countries like Spain and Italy, nudging them out, as well, and threatening the entire union.

If Greece doesn’t tip off a wider crisis, then Spain just might. The situation in Spain continues to deteriorate. The zone’s fourth-largest economy finds itself in a nasty, no-win situation. If Madrid moves aggressively to fix its banks, which are burdened with massive bad loans from the country’s property bust, it could blow out the government’s finances (as in Ireland) and push the country towards a bailout. If Madrid continues to go slow on fixing its banking mess, uncertainty will persist, the economy will remain stagnate, and the country could slip towards a bailout. If the Spanish government asks the euro zone for funds to help shore up its banks, it could get cut off from private funding and end up needing a bailout. All I can say is: Oy vey!

Meanwhile, amid all of this chaos, the leaders of Europe have had no response. At their summit this week, European leaders announced no new initiatives for tackling the debt crisis. In fact, the divisions in Europe appear to be widening. Camps are emerging between those who want to move more decisively towards solving the crisis, by, for instance, issuing eurobonds, and those (in other words, Germany) who refuse to change course despite the mounting evidence that that course has failed.


It comes as no surprise, then, that people are openly talking about preparing for an end to the euro. Martin Jacomb, chairman of Share Plc, wrote in the Financial Times that it might be best for Europe to simply throw in the towel and concede that the euro is a failure:

One way would be to accept that the opportunity to “save the euro” has been lost and for all 17 members to decide at once to revert to national currencies. The chance of differentiating between eurozone countries, weak and strong, has been lost.

Of course, nothing is inevitable. Even a Greek exit from the euro zone would not necessarily doom the entire currency. We’ve also hit these boil points in the crisis before – in May 2010, around the time of the first Greek bailout; and in November 2011, when Italy destabilized – and each time the leaders of Europe managed to yank a rabbit out of a hat and hold the monetary union together.

Yet the risks are rising that the debt crisis is slipping out of Europe’s control and the weight of the combined threats to the euro is becoming overwhelming. The world needs a firm plan of action from Europe: a euro-wide deposit insurance scheme to stop a euro-wide bank run; a real recapitalization program for weak euro zone banks; a clear plan on what to do with Greece; an expanded firewall to protect Spain and Italy from any Greek fallout; and a true agenda to support growth.

We’re not close to any of these steps. The more time slips away, the more likely the euro will, too.
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Re: Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Unread postby ritter » Thu 24 May 2012, 10:59:39

Lore wrote:What's going on with high tech? After Facebook's 'face plant' of an IPO last week, here comes a report by HP that they will cut 27,000 workers from their payroll.

Oh, and Dell in the crapper. All I can figure is that unless you have a solution for mobile or tablet it's going to be a difficult future for consummer sales from many of the old tech horses. Look for shrinking margins and more layoffs to come.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... e7561c5d9f


Kind of makes sense when there are many fewer of us "professionals" utilizing the technology. I've noticed a steep downward participation at online forums in the last few years. I figure it's a mix of fewer people sitting at a desk in front of a computer, bored at work, and many that have transferred to meaningless banter on facebook.
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Re: Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Unread postby pstarr » Thu 24 May 2012, 11:36:49

ritter wrote:
Lore wrote:What's going on with high tech? After Facebook's 'face plant' of an IPO last week, here comes a report by HP that they will cut 27,000 workers from their payroll.

Oh, and Dell in the crapper. All I can figure is that unless you have a solution for mobile or tablet it's going to be a difficult future for consummer sales from many of the old tech horses. Look for shrinking margins and more layoffs to come.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... e7561c5d9f


Kind of makes sense when there are many fewer of us "professionals" utilizing the technology. I've noticed a steep downward participation at online forums in the last few years. I figure it's a mix of fewer people sitting at a desk in front of a computer, bored at work, and many that have transferred to meaningless banter on facebook.
Don't forget the end of Moore's Law and dearth of new toys. Microsoft is a dead company. Apple has a few more years for its Iputz to play out. Poof. The Bubble Pops.
Yikes!
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Re: Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Unread postby vision-master » Thu 24 May 2012, 12:27:39

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montgomery wards...........
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Re: Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Unread postby Daniel_Plainview » Thu 24 May 2012, 12:43:56

Here it Comes: "Eurozone Suffers Worst Downturn Since mid-2009"
The Markit Eurozone PMI® Composite Output Index fell to a near three-year low in May, according to the preliminary ‘flash’ reading which is based on around 85% of usual monthly replies. The index fell for the fourth month in a row to 45.9, down from 46.7 in April, to signal the fastest rate of decline of private sector economic activity since June 2009. Output has fallen eight times in the past nine months.

Activity fell at the fastest rates for seven months in services (and the second-fastest in 34 months), while manufacturing production dropped at the steepest rate since June 2009. The goods-producing sector posted the stronger overall rate of contraction.

By country, Germany posted a marginal fall in combined manufacturing and services output, the first such contraction since last November and only the second in 34 months. The rate of decline in France accelerated to the fastest since April 2009. In the rest of the Eurozone the pace of contraction remained severe, and was the fastest since June 2009.

Image

Incoming new business in the Eurozone private sector declined for the tenth successive month in May. Moreover, the pace of contraction was the [steepest] since June 2009. Manufacturers continued to post a steeper drop in new orders than their service sector counterparts. France posted a steeper drop in new business than Germany, while the rest of the Eurozone continued to see a stronger average rate of decline than the ‘big-two’.

Reflective of the sustained fall in new workloads, private sector firms in the Eurozone continued to post declining outstanding business mid-way through Q2. The rate of decline was little-changed from April’s 33-month record. By sector, manufacturing and services registered broadly similar rates of contraction. The ‘big-two’ both posted weaker falls in backlogs than the rest of the Eurozone.

Private sector employment in the Eurozone declined for the fifth successive month in May. The rate of job shedding was close to April’s 26-month record, but modest overall. This reflected a return to workforce growth in Germany, albeit at a marginal rate. Jobs were cut for the third month running in France, and for the twelfth consecutive month outside the ‘big-two’ on average.
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Re: Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Unread postby Daniel_Plainview » Thu 24 May 2012, 12:51:13

MISH: "Containment Theory Blows Sky High: German Manufacturing PMI Plunges to 45; French Manufacturing PMI Plunges to 44.4, Sharpest Contraction in 3 Years"

The Pollyannas who thought the European recession would be short, shallow, and contained to the periphery have another thing coming. All three ideas were downright silly as I have long stated. *** Europe is in a full-blown recession and for the first time in about a year we did not see any Pollyanna comments from Markit economists. Perhaps the news has sunk in that as I have repeatedly said, this recession will be long and deep and Germany would not escape.

-- French Manufacturing PMI Plunges to 44.4, Sharpest Contraction in 3 Years

-- German Manufacturing PMI Plunges to 45

-- Eurozone PMI Disaster - Worst Downturn Since Mid-2009, Manufacturing and Composite at 35-Month Low; Expect Numerous GDP Downgrades, Missed Budget Targets

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Re: Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Unread postby OilFinder2 » Thu 24 May 2012, 13:32:32

Image

Brazil's historically poor northeast finally gets its boom
RECIFE, Brazil — The Brazilian state of Pernambuco was once known for its vast plains of parched dirt and roving bandits called cangacos, who robbed from the rich and gave to the poor.

For later generations, escaping the widespread poverty of the northeast customarily meant moving to livelier southeastern cities like Rio de Janeiro and Sao Paulo, though many migrants still ended up living in favelas, or slums.

Today, an economic boom has given locals good reasons to stay put, and large numbers of Brazilians are even making their way north in search of a better life.

The area around Recife, the capital of Pernambuco, has benefited from huge government and business investments such as the expansion of the port of Suape, a new shipyard and an oil refinery project. Government aid has also helped struggling families improve their lives, which has lessened the need to move elsewhere.

In Boa Viagem, a new middle-class neighborhood south of downtown Recife, the signs of change include apartment complexes and chic restaurants that have sprung up in recent years.

[...]
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Re: Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Unread postby OilFinder2 » Thu 24 May 2012, 13:59:30


Here's the chart. Holy crap, doomers just don't get it! They're completely out to lunch. Utterly clueless!

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Re: Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Unread postby Daniel_Plainview » Thu 24 May 2012, 14:04:25

A Greece euro exit could make Lehman's collapse 'look like a tea party'
Editor's note: Richard Quest is CNN's foremost international business correspondent and presenter of Quest Means Business, which airs 1800 GMT weekdays. Follow him on Twitter.

London (CNN) -- The wheels are coming off the wagon. The fat lady is about to sing. The proverbial [shit] is about to hit the fan. It doesn't matter which saying you use, the facts are inescapable. Greece's membership of the eurozone is untenable under the current conditions and everyone knows it. Some like Hungary's finance minister say openly Greece will leave the euro. The only question is what catalyst will force it out and when. The nearest deadline to hand is the country's June 17th elections, when the Greek voters will decide whether to support parties who will adhere to the bailout agreements or those who want to tear them up.

Private economists have gone into overdrive trying to work out what will happen. On Friday, Bank of America Merrill Lynch published "what if Greece Exits the Euro" describing the risk as "rising." Citigroup uses the word "probable" for an exit in certain circumstances while Barclays published "dealing with a potential Greek exit" and says "over the longer horizon the likelihood increases."

For the more circumspect euro politicians who have to manage this crisis, there are now well trodden formulae trotted out whenever Greece's euro-future is mentioned. It goes something like this: 1. We want Greece to stay in the euro. 2. Greece must abide by the terms of its agreements with lenders. 3. It is up to the Greek people how they will vote and if they remain in the euro. Think of it as the euro-dance....two steps forward one step back.

With the debt crisis unfolding: What does it mean to be Greek?

Some Europe officials have become truly expert at performing this dance. Olli Rehn, the European Union economics chief, reiterated it to me on Friday. And yet, I reason they must be contemplating what happens when the music stops and the euro-dance comes to an end. They read the same economics as the rest of us. They know that the Greek economy is deeply uncompetitive. The reforms need not only to continue, but speed up if Greece is not to remain on euro-life support forever. The only question is whether the Greek people are prepared to put up with the pain.

Each day there comes a new twist into the euro-dance. Last Friday it was the rumor that Mrs. Merkel had asked Greece to hold a simultaneous referendum with the election on euro-membership. The report came from Athens: Berlin denied it. Clearly one side or the other is playing high stakes hoping to force the issue.

... if they do not follow the austerity plans, the Greek government will not receive more bailout loans to pay its debts. And if that happens, it's not going to be pretty. The Greek banks will collapse -- they are already on fraying central bank lifelines -- unemployment will soar and I wouldn't rule out civil unrest. Who knows what it will look like.

Despite everyone talking about other countries that have defaulted then recovered strongly (Argentina, Russia) the reality is nothing this complicated has ever been tried before, certainly not in such a global interconnected world. Let me say it clearly and loudly. The fear is that Lehman Brothers in 2008 will look like a tea party if they get this one wrong.

What is worrying is that if Greece (only 3% of EU economy) goes is who will be next? Hungarian finance minister Gyorgy Matolcsy, who I also spoke to Friday, thinks Greece won't be the only country to exit.

Obviously now everyone has Spain in their sights. And there is where the real problem lies. Spain is too big to fully bail out a la Greece and definitely too big too fail. If Spain gets into too much trouble "Project Euro" is likely over. From all my private talks with European officials it has become clear -- Spain is the line in the sand. Greece may be too far gone and be allowed to fall, but Spain will be defended till the bitter end. So I fully expect European leaders to give Spain something to take the boot off the throat of austerity in the coming weeks. Probably the same for Portugal.


The fat lady is singing ... the shit is hitting the fan ...
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Re: Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Unread postby AgentR11 » Thu 24 May 2012, 15:33:31

pstarr wrote:
ritter wrote:Kind of makes sense when there are many fewer of us "professionals" utilizing the technology. I've noticed a steep downward participation at online forums in the last few years. I figure it's a mix of fewer people sitting at a desk in front of a computer, bored at work, and many that have transferred to meaningless banter on facebook.
Don't forget the end of Moore's Law and dearth of new toys. Microsoft is a dead company. Apple has a few more years for its Iputz to play out. Poof. The Bubble Pops.


I don't know if I'd go as far to claim the companies as dead, but growth potential seems kinda on the gimpy side.

Moore's Law's biggest downfall I think turns out to be "need". The machines are simply fast enough, and have been for a few years now. And honestly, from my own experience, just about every cpu-muscle problem I run into is now solved better by adding another cheap unit as opposed to staying with one unit and increasing its speed. Even my central workstation, its quad cores trip over each other (disk io, thread on core-b wanting to read before thread on core-a completes a write) more often than they manage to all get maxed out. Hard core gamers get a bit of hardware lust over GPU's and chained cards; but for most office, home, and even computation intensive work, the CPUs have been fast enough for a good little while now.

Maybe consumer devices will focus on size, power/heat, and connectivity as their selling points, I dunno; but we could easily be entering the time of buying new only when the old dies. And that is a very slow business model.

Even the smartphones are at an "enough" point. The coolness of them will count for a few cycles of replacement for many; but I keep looking at my DroidX and coming up blank for what its missing. I know, I waited a good 20 years or so for these capabilities to intersect in a useable form, and now that they are.... Short of running over the thing with my truck, I doubt there'll be a good reason to bother with upgrading...
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Re: Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Unread postby dsula » Thu 24 May 2012, 16:02:39

AgentR11 wrote:I don't know if I'd go as far to claim the companies as dead, but growth potential seems kinda on the gimpy side.

Can you imagine? The growth potential is enormous. Ever watched startrek?
I'm still waiting for software to take on 80% of my design work that is boring and repetitive. Oh can I dream, "computer, design me an amplifier, and make it small". :-D "computer, order me a prototype, and in case you cant' find all the components, pick proper substitutes" :-D
Now you got me going, ready for a startup?
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Re: Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Unread postby Armageddon » Thu 24 May 2012, 16:33:41

OilFinder2 wrote:

Here's the chart. Holy crap, doomers just don't get it! They're completely out to lunch. Utterly clueless!

Image





wow, 6.23 mbpd. That's really something. :lol: The US uses 18 mbpd. Now we 'only' import 2/3 of our oil. I just don't understand why I am not a corny.
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Re: Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Unread postby vision-master » Thu 24 May 2012, 16:55:01

What happened.........

Even at 1970 production levels we would need to import half our oil.... lsol

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Re: Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Unread postby Lore » Thu 24 May 2012, 18:53:05

Then again too, back in 1999 we were using close to 20 million bbl/day. That was when times were booming. Getting back to those happy days, we'd be using somewhere around 22 million bbl/day today, even considering present conservation. Which would add another 4 million bbl of imported oil and then we're pretty much back to where we started before the bump in domestic production in total foreign dependency.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
... Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Unread postby OilFinder2 » Fri 25 May 2012, 10:17:19

Consumer Sentiment In U.S. Climbs To Highest Since 2007
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Consumer confidence rose in May to the highest level since October 2007 as prices at the gas pump became less of a drag on household budgets.

The Thomson Reuters/University of Michigan final index of consumer sentiment climbed to 79.3 from 76.4 the prior month. The gauge was projected to hold at the preliminary reading of 77.8, according to the median forecast of economists surveyed by Bloomberg News.

Cheaper gasoline and an improving housing market may help sustain consumers’ spirits in the face of slower job growth and slumping stock prices. The gain in confidence may signal Americans are more inclined to step up their purchases, which increased in the first quarter at the fastest pace in more than a year.

“Gas prices have fallen, and that’s outweighing the fact that the labor market has been of some concern,” Erik Johnson, a U.S. economist at IHS Global Insight in Lexington, Massachusetts, said before the report. “We see consumer spending holding up.”

Estimates for the confidence measure ranged from 76 to 79, according to the Bloomberg survey of 60 economists. The index averaged 64.2 during the last recession and 89 in the five years before the 18-month economic slump that ended in June 2009.

[...]

The Michigan survey’s index of current conditions, which reflects Americans’ perceptions of their financial situation and whether they consider it a good time to buy big-ticket items like cars, rose to 87.2 from 82.9 the prior month.

The index of consumer expectations six months from now, which more closely projects the direction of consumer spending, increased to 74.3, the highest since July 2007, from 72.3 in April.

[...]
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Re: Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Unread postby Daniel_Plainview » Fri 25 May 2012, 12:12:31

Spanish interest rates soar to 6.24% amid Catalonia bailout demand
European stock markets tumbled and Spain's borrowing costs have shot up as the country's wealthiest autonomous region, Catalonia, calls for a bailout from central government to pay the bills.
"We don't care how they do it, but we need to make payments at the end of the month. Your economy can't recover if you can't pay your bills," said Catalan President Artur Mas.

The debt burden of Spain's 17 highly devolved regions and toxic property debt held by the country's banks are at the heart of the eurozone debt crisis because investors fear they could strain finances to the point that an international bailout is needed.

Just after the announcement this afternoon Spain's IBEX stock market fell 1.1pc, the yield on ten-year Spanish debt rose to 6.24pc and the euro slumped to its lowest level against the US dollar in two years, $1.2496.

Catalonia, which represents one fifth of the Spanish economy
, has more than €13bn in debt to refinance this year, as well as its deficit. All of the regions together have €36bn to refinance this year, as well as an authorised deficit of €15bn.

Last year many of the regions financed debt by falling months or even years behind in payments to providers such as street cleaners and hospital equipment suppliers.

This year the central government provided them with a special credit facility from the Official Credit Institute, or ICO, to pay providers, of which Catalonia has taken €2bn.

The provider credit lines from the ICO run out in June and the central government has pledged to come up with a new mechanism for backing debt from the regions, which have been mostly priced out of international debt markets since the Greek rescue in 2010.

Catalonia's Mas, from the centre-right Convergence and Union Party, said he is running out of options. In the past two years Catalonia has placed patriot bonds, at 4.5pc to 5pc, but he says the capacity for the people of the region to buy such bonds is at its limit. A quarter of all Catalan savings are already in patriot bonds, he said.

The other option would be short-term financing from banks, but Catalonia's neighbour, the region of Valencia, recently paid 7pc for a six-month loan, a level seen as unsustainable.
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Re: Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Unread postby Daniel_Plainview » Fri 25 May 2012, 12:19:25

UK economy could shrink by 2% if Greece exits euro
The UK economy could be plunged even deeper into recession with a GDP contraction of up to 2% if Greece is forced into a disorderly exit from the eurozone.
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Re: Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Unread postby Daniel_Plainview » Fri 25 May 2012, 12:34:36

OilFinder2 wrote:

Here's the chart. Holy crap, doomers just don't get it! They're completely out to lunch. Utterly clueless!

Image


You, OF2, are absolutely and utterly clueless.

In Jan/Feb of 1999, the price of oil was under $10/bbl. In 2012, oil has averaged over $100/bbl ... that's a 1,000% increase in the price of oil. We can assume that the incentives to drill for oil have increased commensurately (i.e., by 1,000%). However, oil production has remained flat at 6.23 mpd between 1999 to 2012. IOW, despite a ten-fold increase in the incentives for drilling oil, oil production has not increased an iota.

All of the low-hanging fruit has been extracted, leaving only extremely high-hanging fruit left to recover, which is why we're now at the desperate phase of endlessly fracking the surface of the planet and drilling miles into the earth and seabeds -- just to scrape by at 1999 production levels!

Our pathetic, desperate addiction to oil has masked the glaringly obvious fact that the game is almost over.
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