Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

[dsula]

are you kidding dsula? Folks who are watching their incomes and security slip away during this so-called "recovery" are not merely in a "pickle" and able to remain merely "bored."

We are floating on an unprecedented level of personal, business, and government debt that is only prolonging judgement day. The (so-called) recession we came through was very different than all previous ones. The depth, breadth, and width was quite extraordinary . . . as has the been "recovery." I do not remember in my lifetime such an anemic recovery. One can only attribute this to peak oil. No other excuse really works for me.

And we have not even slipped over the peak-oil edge.

That's correct pstarr. Don't forget, I don't dispute PO, nor it's effect it will have (eventually). However I firmly believe that it will take another 50 to 100 years till the world population peaks. And that is actually all I care about. I wish I could see it in my lifetime, however I'm not likely to be granted that pleasure.

[pstarr]

Unless I'm missing something, both of those movements are still very much alive. Just because the MSM doesn't broadcast about them every day it doesn't mean they've disappeared. We're living in the age of peak oil and climate change too, but you wouldn't know how serious they are if you just paid attention to the popular media.

I don't expect the MSM to report the truth anymore. No one at a large media conglomerate benefits from speaking the truth; that perpetual economic growth is now impossible. Management has always been petrified of labor and is too chicken-shit to say what needs to be said; ("you will get poorer") because that might generate class-warfare and communism and end with them and theirs hanging from a lamp post.

The advertising department at the MSM is likewise uncomfortable with content that might depress sales. Try this as a thought experiment:
---you run advertising and media for United Airlines and have a brand-new ad to run at FOX. Would you rather see it in the Travel time-slot or buried in 9/11 Documentary?
---you run advertising and media for Ford Motor Company. Do you want to spend billions on advertising only to see your bright shiny new SUV Promotion be destroyed by peak oil documentary?

do not expect the truth. ever

[dsula]

Unless I'm missing something, both of those movements are still very much alive.

Where? A few loonies in some park camping?

[pstarr]

are you kidding dsula? Folks who are watching their incomes and security slip away during this so-called "recovery" are not merely in a "pickle" and able to remain merely "bored."

We are floating on an unprecedented level of personal, business, and government debt that is only prolonging judgement day. The (so-called) recession we came through was very different than all previous ones. The depth, breadth, and width was quite extraordinary . . . as has the been "recovery." I do not remember in my lifetime such an anemic recovery. One can only attribute this to peak oil. No other excuse really works for me.

And we have not even slipped over the peak-oil edge.

That's correct pstarr. Don't forget, I don't dispute PO, nor it's effect it will have (eventually). However I firmly believe that it will take another 50 to 100 years till the world population peaks. And that is actually all I care about. I wish I could see it in my lifetime, however I'm not likely to be granted that pleasure.

Population peaks when oil peaks. now.

(Oh. And lets no forget peak copper, peak phosphorus, peak rare-earth metals, peak silver, peak lead. (gimme a few and I'll add some to the list). Oh yeah. Peak helium-3, peak fresh-water, you get the message)

[Lore]

Unless I'm missing something, both of those movements are still very much alive. Just because the MSM doesn't broadcast about them every day it doesn't mean they've disappeared. We're living in the age of peak oil and climate change too, but you wouldn't know how serious they are if you just paid attention to the popular media.

I don't expect the MSM to report the truth anymore. No one at a large media conglomerate benefits from speaking the truth; that perpetual economic growth is now impossible. Management has always been petrified of labor and is too chicken-shit to say what needs to be said; ("you will get poorer") because that might generate class-warfare and communism and end with them and theirs hanging from a lamp post.

The advertising department at the MSM is likewise uncomfortable with content that might depress sales. Try this as a thought experiment:
---you run advertising and media for United Airlines and have a brand-new ad to run at FOX. Would you rather see it in the Travel time-slot or buried in 9/11 Documentary?
---you run advertising and media for Ford Motor Company. Do you want to spend billions on advertising only to see your bright shiny new SUV Promotion be destroyed by peak oil documentary?

do not expect the truth. ever

I think you're exactly right. I've noticed a trend lately, the more serious the long term problems get, the quieter they get about them.

[pstarr]

I have been reading the New York Times for decades. The stopped reporting on the Environment, Conservation, Ecology. Done. No more. They are too scared to print the truth. What do we expect them to do; run a daily tally of extinct animals. Like on the sports page?

[dsula]

It was a quiet, beautiful day on the beach in Libya a couple years ago too. How quickly things can get out of control.

So what? You got some uprising, a little bit of shelling and after a few years it goes back to normal. Hardly the end-of-the-world collapse doomers dream of.
And I wouldn't mind some 'shelling' of USA and Europeen mega cities. Lot's of job opportunities for clean-up and rebuilding.

[dsula]

]Population peaks when oil peaks. now.

No. (But I wish you were right)

[Lore]

Unless I'm missing something, both of those movements are still very much alive.

Where? A few loonies in some park camping?

OWS still looks pretty active to me.
http://occupywallst.org/

And don't those Tea Party types have a few people in public office now?

[pstarr]

It was a quiet, beautiful day on the beach in Libya a couple years ago too. How quickly things can get out of control.

So what? You got some uprising, a little bit of shelling and after a few years it goes back to normal. Hardly the end-of-the-world collapse doomers dream of.
And I wouldn't mind some 'shelling' of USA and Europeen mega cities. Lot's of job opportunities for clean-up and rebuilding.

What you call "back to normal" John Michael Greer calls the stair-step down. We are witnessing everywhere on the planet, with a few exceptions (China, Brazil?, India?) societies and physical infrastructures deteriorating to new lower levels of energy demand, repair, and social integrity. Wait until you town cuts police force.

Does anyone around here remember the budget debates? balancing the budget? Settled by Novemember? Are we children with such short memories. Folks. It's coming due.

[Lore]

It was a quiet, beautiful day on the beach in Libya a couple years ago too. How quickly things can get out of control.

So what? You got some uprising, a little bit of shelling and after a few years it goes back to normal. Hardly the end-of-the-world collapse doomers dream of.
And I wouldn't mind some 'shelling' of USA and Europeen mega cities. Lot's of job opportunities for clean-up and rebuilding.

We're talking bigger fish here with all that we are facing.

[dsula]

OWS still looks pretty active to me.
http://occupywallst.org/

Oh yeah, you're right. It mutated to the mexican 'we-are-illegal-but-we-want-more' movement. Good for them. The sooner the USA is at 3rd world level the better (not much longer anyway judged by visiting some SW communities).

[Lore]

Does anyone around here remember the budget debates? balancing the budget? Settled by Novemember? Are we children with such short memories. Folks. It's coming due.

We're having a Kim Kardashian moment in time.

As If Nothing Matters
http://kunstler.com/blog/2012/04/as-if- ... tters.html

[pstarr]

Kunstler tells the truth in a "New York" kind of way. I love him for that.

I listen to his podcasts but am about 6 months behind. What does he say here?

[pstarr]

Great stuff;

The world received news of this dangerous idiocy with a yawn. You'd at least expect a few Germans to choke on a bratwurst here and there.

[SeaGypsy]

Population peaks when oil peaks. now.

Wanna bet? No way known. The first world will take on the traits of the third as our economies bite the dust. As mortality goes up, so will breeding. There is not a poor country in the world which is in control of it's population. They all overbreed and either overspill or die-off. The overspill option is fading slowly. Die-off is starting to get it's teeth.
Population will not peak for at least a decade after we come off the plateau.

[pstarr]

Population peaks when oil peaks. now.

Wanna bet? No way known. The first world will take on the traits of the third as our economies bite the dust. As mortality goes up, so will breeding. There is not a poor country in the world which is in control of it's population. They all overbreed and either overspill or die-off. The overspill option is fading slowly. Die-off is starting to get it's teeth.
Population will not peak for at least a decade after we come off the plateau.

Billions of humans across the planet depend on mere cups of diesel for their existence. Shallow, dirty, depleting surface aquifers alone support 150 million Indians. These wells have recently sunk below hand-bucket levels. Guess what delivers the filthy water? Diesel. Are they going to get their fair share of diesel next year? What's fair? How will they breed without water? Yes. The Four Horseman RIDE

[SeaGypsy]

You don't get me. The third world is doing what it has done. The first world at 2.3 children per woman is what I am on about. Any immediacy in die-off in the 3rd world will rapidly be offset by panic breeding in ex-first world.

[OilFinder2]

Leading economic indicators up for six months

The U.S. index of leading economic indicators rose for the sixth consecutive month in March, the Conference Board said Thursday.

The Leading Economic Index was up 0.3 percent to 95.7, following an increase of 0.7 percent in February and a 0.2 percent increase in January.

Economists had predicted a 0.2 gain, expecting economic growth may have slowed given the drop off in job gains in March.

The Leading Economic Index, which takes into account 10 economic components, is essentially a comparison with 2004, the year the Conference Board assigned a level of 100.

The March index rose, "despite relatively weak data on jobs, home building and output in the past month or two, the indicators signal continued economic momentum," said Conference Board economist Ken Goldstein.

"We expect a gradual improvement in growth past the summer months," he said.

[Lore]

It seems more likely the deciding factor in the number of offspring is the level of education of the population.