[Shelter] Heat - Wood (was Wood Stoves)

[lateStarter]

Sorry for late response. Busy last few days moving manure to the property from one of our neighbors. Yes, you are all correct about problems cutting down (certain types of) trees without permission. People do it, but if your neighbor doesn't like you and he finds out - big fine. Not hard to get permssion though.

It seems like the problem we had with local gov't (gmina) is that when my wife went to the office they had no record on the offical map of the property (land use?) being allocated for forestry. We would have to get a new survey done. I don't think it is a problem in general with planting a few trees here and there, but several thousand could change your property classification, etc. I will ask my wife for more details.

[lateStarter]

LateStarter, loggers don't get very interested in trees less than 12 inches in diameter, which is about the minimum "lumber" size. Less than that is pulpwood, which brings a much lower price. The best trees are large, straight, and fairly clear of branches up to at least 10 feet and preferably much higher. Species is also extremely important in determining value, obviously.

If you manage your woodland properly over a long period (e.g., by harvesting the inferior trees for firewood), you can end up with a large population of trees with the desirable characteristics. Tree density (what they call "stocking") is real important. The ideal spacing is close enough together to discourage lateral limb growth (and encourage height and straightness) but far enough apart to allow trunk and crown growth. It's a balancing act.

I was actually thinking about going the 'pulp-wood' route. It seems to me that whoever planted the trees originally, had what you stated in mind. Fairly tight planting pattern. Unfortunately, nobody was around for a few years to do any trimming. We are just starting (with help) to trim lateral growth
up to about head-high level. I would estimate average diameter at 6". I see lots of trucks hauling equivalent sized wood somewhere, so somebody must be buying it.

[Heineken]

LateStarter, if you are going to sell your trees as pulp, there's probably no need to spend time trimming them.

I guess you know how awful your land will look, and how damaged it will be, after they clearcut it. The only logging I'd ever consider allowing on my land is selective cutting, where they remove just a scattering of good, big trees (and leave other good, big trees). Even then, they do plenty of damage with that heavy equipment.

Clearcutting can make sense if you have an inferior stand. Then you can start over again, the right way.

Maybe you could remove every other tree for pulp, and leave the remainder to grow into timber? A "commercial thinning." (It might or might not be feasible. And be warned: the machinery will run into some of the trees you're keeping, scarring them badly.)

There are lots of options, and you might want to consult a forester, who will come up with a management plan.

How much land is involved?

[bromius]

Latestarter - I have a degree in forestry an can attest that what Heineken is saying is very sound information.

Heineken - Nice to see you posting again. I've been mostly absent for over a year myself. Having someone around who likes to talk trees should draw me out of the woodwork a bit though

[Heineken]

Hi Bromius! It's good to "see" you too. It's terrific being able to talk trees and wood with a real forester! (And with someone in far-away Poland!) Hope all is well with you up north, if that's where you still are.

[lateStarter]

LateStarter, if you are going to sell your trees as pulp, there's probably no need to spend time trimming them.

I guess you know how awful your land will look, and how damaged it will be, after they clearcut it. The only logging I'd ever consider allowing on my land is selective cutting, where they remove just a scattering of good, big trees (and leave other good, big trees). Even then, they do plenty of damage with that heavy equipment.

Clearcutting can make sense if you have an inferior stand. Then you can start over again, the right way.

Maybe you could remove every other tree for pulp, and leave the remainder to grow into timber? A "commercial thinning." (It might or might not be feasible. And be warned: the machinery will run into some of the trees you're keeping, scarring them badly.)

There are lots of options, and you might want to consult a forester, who will come up with a management plan.

How much land is involved?

The total size of the plot is just over 17 acres. Seven of those acres are covered by a raspberry plantation, another 7 is mixed forest (mostly hardwood) there is about 1 acre of open meadow - so I guess that leaves around 2+ for the pine tree plantation. The biggest section is about 50 rows by 200 rows. After talking a bit more with my wife about this, it seems that the original planting was done on the record (in order to receive funds from EU and Polish gov't for green area). This was done on a 5 year plan. After that period expired, the original (or next) owner did not create a new 5 year plan. They seem to be big on 5 year plans here. So basically, we just need to pay for a new survey if we want to do anything with it (the pine trees).

So, probably what others mentioned about not really needing permission to plant anything you want was correct. The documentation process starts when you want access to funds for what you planted! They seem to be fairly strict about this. I know we had to substrtact area from what we claimed for raspberries because they said we couldn't include the area covered by a dirt road that bisects the berry plantation. How much area determines funds received. Rows can only be certain distance apart too. I guess the idea is to prevent someone from throwing 2 or 3 bushes in the ground and claiming 10 acres dedicated to soft-fruit production.

Anyway, it might be a moot point because my wife is thinking about selling the property. Supposedly funds for soft-fruit are disappearing soon. I just thought that if we can't sell the land, I might be able to get some income from it by harvesting the pine trees. If we did that, I think I would just reforest the area with more hardwood type trees. I'll have to check if there are still funds available for that type of project.