[Shelter] Heat - Wood (was Wood Stoves)

[Heineken]

That little Jotul is a fine stove, Revi (hi, by the way!). I'm familiar with it.

Read an article saying that heating subsidies are being cut drastically in the Northeast states. Very bad news for the poor.

I wouldn't want to own a wood stove without my own source of firewood! The only limit in my case is my ability to do the labor, at some point down the line. For now I can still cut and split just fine. I suppose I could get a hydraulic splitter when I'm older, but that would be a sad day indeed.

I continue to be extremely pleased with my new Lennox Grandview 230. Best stove I've ever owned. We're starting to get cold nights (by Virginia standards) here, down into the teens and twenties, so it's getting more seriously tested.

Running a wood stove is an art and a science---and, for me, fun. I could talk about it all day.

[ErrantOlafr]

So far my lopi is doing a pretty good job keeping our house nice and cozy here in NY. When the real cold kicks in it will need some help from the boiler. We have a good bit of woods and I plan to start harvesting the useable deadfall for starters.

[Heineken]

The house I inherited from my parents has a dual heating/cooling system with two heat pumps, necessary because the house is so stretched out. This has presented real problems for me in terms of heating solely with the one woodstove. Luckily, there are four ceiling fans to distribute the heat. I also bought one of those little heat-powered fans that you place on top of the stove. It directs a vague waft of warm air toward our bedroom. Despite being pretty weak, it's raising the temperature in the bedroom a critical couple of degrees.

There is a ceiling fan near the woodstove that I have set to blow air downward and away from the stove in all directions. The remaining ceiling fans I have set to suck air upward and create a slight vacuum effect in those areas/rooms.

[seahorse3]

Heineken, I haven't read all 3 pages on this thread so I apologize for asking a basic question. But, sometime in the future, I would like to buy a wood cook stove for a home (800 sq ft). It would be on the second floor (its actually a 3 story building). I would like to be able to cook with it and heat the house. So, what do you recommend? In looking at all the various stoves, there are so many factors its hard for the novice to know what is good or bad. Some stoves burn either coal or wood, is this good? Some are ceramic, others steel, what features would I want? what features aren't worth anything, etc.

[Heineken]

Hi Seahorse. I've never looked into cook stoves nor used one, although I do a fair amount of cooking on my woodstove top.

The only one I've seen advertised broadly is the Heartland Oval. It's designed to do exactly what you need. But it's expensive, and it's cast iron I think, and it might produce more heat than you need.

I don't know anything about ceramic stoves. I like plate steel, as I discussed in a post on the preceding page. Maybe you can find a solid and somewhat smaller cook stove than the Oval, made of steel. OTOH, cast iron might lend itself better to the needs of cooking. Cast-iron-stove heat is "softer."

I would think that the flexibility to burn either coal or wood is a good thing, not a bad thing. Coal burns with an intense, focused heat, so stoves that burn it actually have to be built stronger than stoves that burn only wood. But if you plan to burn only wood, or don't have as good an access to coal as you do to wood, I don't see any point in getting a dual-fuel stove (and paying more for it).

[Heineken]

I seem to be the only one posting here as winter gets under way. LOL

I have a question: Does anyone burn freshly cut red cedar without seasoning it? Burns great, but I wonder if it produces a creosote problem. Probably not advisable.

[davep]

I think the problem with unseasoned wood is the water content. A lot of the energy goes into making steam.

[seahorse3]

HK,

Thanks for the info. As for buring cedar, by no means do I consider myself an expert. For years, though, I heated my home with a fireplace insert. Both the guys that sold it to me and the yearly chimney sweep (a firefighter) told me never to burn pine, cedars or evergreens in it bc of that very problem and that it was the leading cause of flu fires.

[Revi]

We pretty much burn hardwood, but we keep the white cedar for kindling. I don't know if red cedar is the same, but white cedar is awesome for getting the fire started. I like bundles of shingle ends.

[Heineken]

Lots of Southern country people burn lots of pine, unfortunately, because that's all they have.

Yes, davep, there's plenty of water, but in the case of red cedar that doesn't seem to stop it from burning vigorously and releasing plenty of heat. (But the water content will definitely increase creosote formation.)

I'm a little short on seasoned wood this winter, so I was thinking of cutting some red cedar now and letting it sit for a few months, then mixing it in with the oak during the second half of the winter to stretch out my supply. Even a couple of months will reduce the water content considerably.

(The reason I'm short is that I hadn't planned on such a big stove as I now have, which is gobbling up the wood.)

Red cedar is somewhat like white cedar, Revi. Burns like crazy (super kindling) and smells nice. Also useful for furniture and fence posts. They used to make pencils out of it. Some country people regard red cedar as a weed tree, but I like it.

[argyle]

HK,

I would try not to burn 'wet' wood as too much energy from the wood gets wasted on getting the water out of the wood. If I burn very dry wood (like scraps of timber of one of my projects) it gets so hot in front of the fire place insert (closed system with glass door) I can't stand there for long, however when I burn some hardwood (like oak) that isn't fully dry (even one season is not enough for me to dry it) then you only get a very reduced amount of heat and it takes a lot longer for the stove to get warm.

I think it's find to burn pine as long as that is not the only thing you are burning. I would mix it with other hardwood. The resin in pine can/and will cause chimney fires. My parents burn a lot of wood (and used to burn a lot of pine), but even though they cleared their chimney a couple of times per year, they still had a couple of fires.
I think what also helps with pine is that you don't make a small smoldering fire, but one that generates a good amount of heat. The biggest difference with my fireplace and my parents' woodboiler is that I burn a larger fire (more heat) and thus it clears out the chimney (less deposit), while they burn a more constant small fire. (ofcourse they burn like 10 times as much wood as I do)

A good working chimney helps aswell. I have a stainless steel chimney, while my parents have fireproof brick chimney. (so not a smooth -> maybe also more deposits)

I actually try to dry my oak for 3-4 seasons.

[davep]

I actually try to dry my oak for 3-4 seasons.

That's correct for oak. Note that during those four years the split oak needs to spend six months without being covered in order for the rain to help get rid of the tannins.

[Heineken]

I have a stainless steel chimney, while my parents have fireproof brick chimney. (so not as smooth -> maybe also more deposits)

.

I think a steel chimney is much better than brick. Because the steel tube is narrower, the chimney draws air better. Also, you're right, it's much easier to clean a steel chimney. I had a steel chimney once and it was so easy for me to maintain. I have a brick one now and it keeps glazing up on me.

I'd like to have a steel chimney inserted into my brick chimney. Not sure if that readily can be done.

[Heineken]

I actually try to dry my oak for 3-4 seasons.

That's correct for oak. Note that during those four years the split oak needs to spend six months without being covered in order for the rain to help get rid of the tannins.

I submit that four years' seasoning may be a bit of overkill, Dave. Two years has worked fine for me. Even one year is OK. Could be the difference is our extremely hot long summers, which bake the wood as if in a kiln.

That said, longer is certainly better if you can arrange it. I've read that oak seasons FULLY at only the rate of one inch of diameter per year!

It's important to split the wood thoroughly as soon as possible. Speeds the drying process dramatically.

Agree about not covering wood for quite a while after cutting it. It dries out better, even with the rain. I'm not aware of washing out the tannins as being a critical factor, but I'll take your word for it.

[davep]

IIRC, the washing out the tannins thing is only for oak. Other types can be covered all the time (and ready in a couple of years) so long as there is sufficient air-flow.

I agree about splitting early. It's important for drying. I spent most of my farm work-experience splitting wood

[vtsnowedin]

I have a stainless steel chimney, while my parents have fireproof brick chimney. (so not as smooth -> maybe also more deposits)

.

I think a steel chimney is much better than brick. Because the steel tube is narrower, the chimney draws air better. Also, you're right, it's much easier to clean a steel chimney. I had a steel chimney once and it was so easy for me to maintain. I have a brick one now and it keeps glazing up on me.

I'd like to have a steel chimney inserted into my brick chimney. Not sure if that readily can be done.

There are companies that do that and guarantee it for twenty years. About a $1000 per floor of chimney height.

[davep]

One problem with the steel chimney tube inside a brick one is that it can create too much negative pressure (tirage in French, I can't remember the term in English) as it heats up and burn your wood too quickly. In my experience, it's better to have the first five or six feet or so as steel tubing, then widening out to a brick chimney at the ceiling level.

[vtsnowedin]

Heineken, I haven't read all 3 pages on this thread so I apologize for asking a basic question. But, sometime in the future, I would like to buy a wood cook stove for a home (800 sq ft). It would be on the second floor (its actually a 3 story building). I would like to be able to cook with it and heat the house. So, what do you recommend? In looking at all the various stoves, there are so many factors its hard for the novice to know what is good or bad. Some stoves burn either coal or wood, is this good? Some are ceramic, others steel, what features would I want? what features aren't worth anything, etc.

Here is a place to start shopping for a wood cook stove.
http://www.lehmans.com/store/Stoves___C ... 0200?Args=
The one I have in the kitchen was made in the 1920s and is enamel coated cast iron which was and is top of the line. Uncoated black cast iron is cheaper and prone to rusting when the stove is not in use. Plate steel or sheet metal stoves are cheaper yet and you get what you pay for.
The Andes range I have has a flat surface that with the reservoir on the side measures 47"x 30". In it's day it also had a water jacket down one side of the fire box that was plumbed to a water tank standing behind the stove in the space between the stove and the kitchen wall. This worked by thermo-syphon and provided all the hot water to the house. (If you wanted to take a bath you would run your hand down the side of the galvanized uninsulated tank to see how far down it was hot. If it was more then half full [ or hot rather it was always full]you were good to go. ) It had both coal grates and a way to shake them down and wood grates both of which I have managed to burn through with eighty years of use and I'm down to a wood grate from another spare stove that has some issues. I'll probably have to break down and buy a new stove soon but doubt that I can find one that has the firebox extension this stove has and certainly not the sentimental value.

[vtsnowedin]

One problem with the steel chimney tube inside a brick one is that it can create too much negative pressure (tirage in French, I can't remember the term in English) as it heats up and burn your wood too quickly. In my experience, it's better to have the first five or six feet or so as steel tubing, then widening out to a brick chimney at the ceiling level.

Excessive draft can be easily controlled by a pipe damper between stove and chimney and shutting down the air inlets. If it can't get in it can't get sucked out.
If you stop the steel insert part way up the chimney how do you seal the gap around the pipe to keep creosote from running down and filling the space between brick and pipe? And how do you inspect it later on?

[Tanada]

Here is a place to start shopping for a wood cook stove.
http://www.lehmans.com/store/Stoves___C ... 0200?Args=
The one I have in the kitchen was made in the 1920s and is enamel coated cast iron which was and is top of the line. Uncoated black cast iron is cheaper and prone to rusting when the stove is not in use. Plate steel or sheet metal stoves are cheaper yet and you get what you pay for.
The Andes range I have has a flat surface that with the reservoir on the side measures 47"x 30". In it's day it also had a water jacket down one side of the fire box that was plumbed to a water tank standing behind the stove in the space between the stove and the kitchen wall. This worked by thermo-syphon and provided all the hot water to the house. (If you wanted to take a bath you would run your hand down the side of the galvanized uninsulated tank to see how far down it was hot. If it was more then half full [ or hot rather it was always full]you were good to go. ) It had both coal grates and a way to shake them down and wood grates both of which I have managed to burn through with eighty years of use and I'm down to a wood grate from another spare stove that has some issues. I'll probably have to break down and buy a new stove soon but doubt that I can find one that has the firebox extension this stove has and certainly not the sentimental value.

If the stove is still in good shape why don't you contact a local fabricator and have more grates made for it? A couple hundred well spent if it has no other issues that worry you.