[Sixstrings]

Sounds like things got heated down in Australia :

Putin plans to leave G20 early after West blasts Russia

Vladimir Putin is quitting a Group of 20 summit early after facing heavy criticism over what Western forces say are Russian combat troops entering Ukraine.

The reception for Mr. Putin in Brisbane included sharp rebukes from Stephen Harper and Barack Obama.

The Canadian Prime Minister told Mr. Putin flatly that he needs "to get out of Ukraine," when the two met on Saturday during the summit.

A spokesman for the Canadian Prime Minister relayed the details of the encounter and, according to director of communications Jason MacDonald, "Mr. Putin did not respond positively."

Russian officials later said Mr. Putin's reply to Mr. Harper was "That's impossible because we are not there."

The Russian official told Reuters that Mr. Putin planned to skip a working session on Sunday at the two-day summit in Brisbane and bring forward his departure because he needed to attend meetings in Moscow.

...

Mr. Obama, speaking at the University of Queensland in Brisbane, said Moscow’s behaviour is dangerous.

“We're opposing Russia's aggression against Ukraine, which is a threat to the world, as we saw in the appalling shoot-down of MH17” the President said, a reference to the downing of Malaysian Airlines jet in Ukraine this past July.

The European Council, which represents the heads of government and state in the European Union, called on Russia to end the aggression.

European Council President Herman Van Rompuy demanded Moscow “stop the inflow of weapons and troops from its territory into Ukraine” and “withdraw those already present."

Europe's foreign ministers are set to meet Monday to determine whether further sanctions are now necessary.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel, perhaps the European leader with the best relationship with Mr. Putin, said the EU was now weighing further punitive measures against Russia over the latest crisis in Ukraine. This could include adding more individuals to the sanction target list.

"The present situation is not satisfying," Ms. Merkel told journalists in Brisbane. "At present the listing of further persons is on the agenda."

Mr. Putin was not accorded the normal level of attention at the summit. He was placed at the outside edge of leaders for the formal “family photograph” and only Australia’s assistant defence minister was on hand to greet him when his plane arrived in Brisbane.

Although the more exclusive Group of Seven club of nations has kicked Russia from its ranks over Crimea, there is less unified thinking in the broader G20, which includes rapidly developing countries such as Brazil, Russia, China and India.

Australia consulted G20 members on whether Russia should be excluded from the Brisbane meeting after the Crimean invasion but did not find a consensus.

The Group of 20 meeting concludes Sunday.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/putin-plans-to-leave-g20-early-after-west-blasts-russia/article21603779/

Russia's jumping the shark lately.

They're just impossible to talk to. When even a Canadian stops being nice and just gets up in your face and says "get out of Ukraine" -- when even people from Finland and Sweden are complaining about you -- when you're even on Australia's bad side -- is it not time to admit there's a problem? That it's not the rest of the whole world that is wrong, but maybe you are wrong?

So Putin just tells Harper Russia can't get out of Ukraine because Russian troops are never in Ukraine.

It's got to be infuriating, how do you respond to that, they've annexed Crimea but they say they're not in Ukraine.

It's like if somebody takes your wallet and you say "hey give me back my wallet!" and they just say "I don't have your wallet" meanwhile you see your wallet right in their hand.

Russia's just not making any friends lately, at all. (well, other than Hungary)

There was a kremlin source quoted saying France has 2 weeks to deliver those Mistral ships or else there will be "serious consequences."

And then France shot back that "they won't be dictated to."

Australian gov snubbed Putin. Nobody high level greeted him at the airport, just a lower level defense minister. And Putin was put at the far end of the family photo.

[GHung]

"It's like if somebody takes your wallet and you say "hey give me back my wallet!" and they just say "I don't have your wallet" meanwhile you see your wallet right in their hand."

Because it's not your wallet anymore. See how that works? And if Russia 'annexes' Crimea, it's not Ukraine anymore, just like Texas isn't Mexico anymore. It's a mean old world, eh? Possesion is 9/10s of foreign affairs.

[dissident]

Ah yes, The Globe and Mail, parrot of official Kiev propaganda with not context and no actual reporting. Just takes the spew from Kiev and repeats like God given truth.

BTW, Six$ Russia did not quit the G20 and the G7 have no power to kick it out. Don't make up news you twat.

[Sixstrings]

Lol, Gas.

Ok here's a reuters article on this that give more of the Russian side.

Maybe my Ukraine Today and Canada Today sources really are a little bent to one direction. Russia says they aren't quitting the G20, that Putin attended all the major events:

A source in Putin’s delegation told Reuters that the Russian president would leave the summit early, skipping a working breakfast on Sunday, because he needed to return to meetings in Moscow.

But Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov denied any such plans, saying: "This is wrong. The president is taking part in all the (G20) events."Western nations have imposed successive rounds of sanctions on Moscow, accusing it of sending troops and tanks to back pro-Russian rebels fighting to break away from Ukraine. Russia denies the charges.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/15/us-g20-summit-idUSKCN0IZ03C20141115

But they still deny there's ever any Russian army troops in Ukraine.

Samantha Power is right, how can you negotiate if they won't even admit Russia is involved? It's like as if Iraq invaded Kuwait, and then just kept saying it never did invade it.

The above poster is right that possession is 9/10 of the law.

Crimea is gone for good, it went on too long and of all the regions in Ukraine that's the one spot that actually has a bit over 50% of the population that went along with it. The tatars don't like it, rest of Ukraine doesn't like it, Turkey doesn't like it, but still okay we can say there's over half that were okay with it. A future problem though would be issues of any ethnic cleansing -- I guess that has to be watched, about Crimea.

And what if Russia tries that in East Ukraine. What if they try to start relocating Ukrainian speakers, or anyone that doesn't support the separatist rebels?

Anyhow, possession is 9/10 of the law and it's poor law enforcement to let someone keep something for too long -- plus maybe they are looking to take more -- at some point, it becomes "too late."

Ukrainian government needs one of two things, either weapons and aid to defend what's left of Ukraine or they need Western troops in there to hold the line and stop this from escalating. Something is going to have to be done, it's like Yugoslavia was, this can't just go on forever. 12,000 already dead -- that's 8,000 Ukrainians and 4,000 Russian separatists / Russian citizens / at least 1,500 ish Russian military.

EDIT: and another thing, people are just on edge about Russia, it's like getting traumatized nobody knows what's going to come next.

It's always one thing after another, "we're working on new nuclear weapons we don't talk about but you'll find out ," it's "oh we're gonna patrol bombers in your gulf of mexico now," it's on and on like that. Russia is THE cowboy now, not the US, and the rest of the world does not like a cowboy. They're starting to get pissed off about it.

People are just on edge, look at Sweden and how they mobilized their military to search for a sub. Was there even a Russian sub to start with? Are people just on edge?

And Russia seems to love it, Putin WANTS to be feared not liked -- but they're playing with fire, at some point it's not a game anymore and Russia is just staring at a whole world that's had about enough of it same as how Latvians and Lithuanians and Estonians and Ukrainians feel.

There's no future just being hitched to China, and outcast from everyone else.

All that will make Russia is like another North Korea. China will get the benefit. China will be in charge of Russia. The West will negotiate with China in the future, and it will be Beijing that gets the benefit holding crazy Russia out there for leverage for things China wants. It will be Beijing that ultimately controls Russia and keeps them in line, same as they do North Korea.

Russia jumped out of a frying pan into a fire with China, they'll find out eventually.

The ruble has crashed. The stock market is so low now that just one American company -- Apple -- is worth more than the entire Russian stock market.

Putin's just doing everything wrong -- for the world, for his own country. It's sad to see. They had $800 billion of trade with Europe, they're working awful hard on throwing all that away. All to put on Beijing's yoke. I just don't understand it. Don't they see it, they will be controlled by Beijing -- did anyone notice how fast the Chinese first lady threw that shawl off, that Putin put on her? That was body language. Those things tell a lot, in Asian cultures.

[Keith_McClary]

Ah yes, The Globe and Mail, parrot of official Kiev propaganda with not context and no actual reporting. Just takes the spew from Kiev and repeats like God given truth.

BTW, Six$ Russia did not quit the G20 and the G7 have no power to kick it out. Don't make up news you twat.

They don't even parrot well. The same writer mis-attributed a quote of Putin's in a previous article:

“What he may be trying to do is drive a wedge in the G20 between those who support Russia and those in the West who don’t,” Mr. Hampson said. “This contradicts international law because sanctions can only be imposed within the framework of the United Nations and its security council.”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/pol ... e21603599/

(The second quote is Putin.)
I nagged him, lets see if he fixes it.

[Sixstrings]

CNN: Russia rising: Everything you need to know about how Moscow is flexing its muscles


http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/11/world/russia-west/

That CNN infographic doesn't even mention the latest, about Russian bomber patrols in the gulf of Mexico, and I think they're missing the latest near-collision between a European ariliner (carrying Danes) and a Russian spy plane.

I didn't even know about the March 3rd incident, and the Swedish airliner almost colliding with a Russian plane (when Russian planes do incursions and fly patrols on borders, they don't have transponders on and obviously do not report to air traffic control).

It's weird how it's our airliners that are under such threat, so far in this new cold war.

Two near collisions and one downed airliner -- that killed hundreds, mostly Dutch and Australians. Russia didn't do it on PURPOSE -- but it amounts to criminal negligence. It's just negligent. When they fly bombers and spy planes, they aren't thinking of the safety of airliners that don't know they are there.

And they gave ragtag rebel bands buk missile systems, the rebels see a plane and shoot at it and down goes the airliner. Russia couldn't have warned airlines, because Russia denies they're doing all this in the first place right?

It's negligence. And it's hilarious, here we have a cold war and our biggest bitch is that these mean bombers don't have their transponders on -- of COURSE they don't -- they are BOMBERS -- making PRACTICE RUNS on us -- as if they care about airliners?

BTW, Six$ Russia did not quit the G20 and the G7 have no power to kick it out. Don't make up news you twat.

I posted an update with a Reuters article giving the Russian side. Putin is leaving a bit earlier than the other leaders are, ok. You don't have to call me names. Russia is still wrong in this thing, but I see now I can't jump on Canadian and Ukraine Today sources, I have to check those.

Doesn't change the fact Russia is scaring people and doing landgrabs, though.

[Withnail]

who cares what Australia or any other US puppet says about anything.

everyone knows America just instructs their sock puppets to mouth off on their behalf.

[Sixstrings]

who cares what Australia or any other US puppet says about anything.

everyone knows America just instructs their sock puppets to mouth off on their behalf.

Nope, you're wrong there, Aussies think for themselves and they're actually some of the most anti-war and anti warmonger people in this alliance. If Russian can't make nice with them, if it can't make nice with a Sweden or Finland, then it's just impossible.

They're in a bit of a strange spot here, I'm sure they'd have rather stayed out of it all, but they can't ignore they lost 32 of their own on that airliner.

Aussies like to travel a lot. They need a world where airliners are safe and don't get shot out of the sky.

And European airliners need to be safe too, from collision with Russian air force that doesn't have a transponder on.

And now that Russia is going to do gulf of mexico operations -- let's just hope a Russian plane doesn't cause any problems for a Delta flight headed to Cozumel with 300 vacationing Americans.

Who cares about Australians? The allies care. Australians are people too, just like Ukrainians are.

[Withnail]

who cares what Australia or any other US puppet says about anything.

everyone knows America just instructs their sock puppets to mouth off on their behalf.

Nope, you're wrong there, Aussies think for themselves and they're actually some of the most anti-war and anti warmonger people in this alliance. If Russian can't make nice with them, if it can't make nice with a Sweden or Finland, then it's just impossible.

Australia is a puppet of the US. Its government therefore speaks accordingly. Its statements are merely the chattering of a monkey dancing to the organ grinder's tune, therefore not worth the time of a thinking individual.

You need to stop drivelling in generalities about how great this or that nationality is just because they are US puppets and their governments lick Obama's boots.

It's absolutely nauseating.

The Turks showed you though, didn't they?

You were reduced to fuming about how the Turkish government was still taking orders from the US, never mind the Turkish people.

[Paulo1]

Harper is a sock puppet, no doubt about it.

However, there are a lot of ukes in western Canada and if Harper does not cream the vote in the west the Conservatives are toast next election, approx in 1 year.

This was done for a Canadian audience.

My mother-in-law is a Uke and you don't even bring Russia up around her. You might as well just go home if you do. hmmm..... wait a minute,

[Withnail]

Harper is a sock puppet, no doubt about it.

However, there are a lot of ukes in western Canada and if Harper does not cream the vote in the west the Conservatives are toast next election, approx in 1 year.

This was done for a Canadian audience.

My mother-in-law is a Uke and you don't even bring Russia up around her. You might as well just go home if you do. hmmm..... wait a minute,

Oh yeah Harper's Canada isnt he. he was just in Australia.

Can't recall the Australian prime minster's name.

[AndyA]

I see now I can't jump on Canadian and Ukraine Today sources, I have to check those.

Because CNN and Reuters are so truthful, and well balanced. I mean it is 'only' the Canadians and Ukies who are getting fed propaganda, this is why Russia should have a free press, where they can print any old crap as the truth, no matter how wrong it is.

The paranoid hysterics you are typing are amusing six, surprising that you havn't mentioned the 500% increase in NATO air patrols recently, I can't imagine why not, after all they are flying in international airspace like Russian patrols.

[AndyA]

I think Russia should do exactly as they are told by the US, no matter what! Then 'the world' would like them. The benefits of getting a big red white and blued dick up the arse far outweigh the consequences of defying the mighty USA. Look how well things were going for Russia during the Yeltsin years, life expectancy crashing, standards of living crashing, those were the good old days when Russia and 'the world' were friends, now Putin is turning all that around? He must be nucking futs!

[Sixstrings]

I think Russia should do exactly as they are told by the US, no matter what! Then 'the world' would like them.

Russia doesn't have to do what the US says to, but it does at least need to work with Angela Merkal and Sweden and Finland.

There's something wrong if someone can't even make socialist dove Germans and Scandinavians happy. And Aussies. All the Aussies wanted was a "I'm sorry," that's actually a bit weak they should be madder than that one would think. They just want an apology.

[Sixstrings]

G20 summit: Enter Putin. Accompanied by four warships. To the sound of mockery

It’s gunboat diplomacy of the most literal kind.

Vladimir Putin has stationed four warships close to Australian waters before the G20 leaders’ meeting of the most powerful world economies in Brisbane starts today. The President’s show of naval muscle comes at a time when Russia has drawn global criticism for its intervention in Ukraine, where it is still reportedly sending tanks, artillery and troops.

But it has left David Cameron less than impressed. “I didn’t feel it necessary to bring a warship myself to keep myself safe at this G20, and I’m sure that Putin won’t be in any danger,” he said last night.

Mocking Mr Putin’s machismo was more than just a joke. It was yet another dig at a man who has backed rebels and split Ukraine in arguably the most delicate European crisis so far this century.

...

Mr Cameron made that warship aside – as well as once again comparing Russia’s annexation of part of Ukraine with the actions of Nazi Germany – 24 hours before he was due to meet Mr Putin today, raising the stakes with suggestions of more sanctions.

He added: “Every time there’s been a step in the wrong direction – whether that was an illegal referendum in Crimea, whether it was the incursion of Russian troops, whether it was destabilisaition – Europe has taken a step in a firm direction.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/g20-summit-enter-putin-accompanied-by-four-warships-to-the-sound-of-mockery-9862465.html

[Sixstrings]

NATO chief warning about the dangers of civilian airliner collision with Russian military aircraft:

Russian warplanes risking safety of European airliners, says Nato chief

Jens Stoltenberg, the new secretary general of Nato, tells the Telegraph that more Russian military jets are flying over Europe without contacting air traffic control, raising the risk of mid-air collisions
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11233349/Russian-warplanes-risking-safety-of-European-airliners-says-Nato-chief.html

And I'm more concerned about the gulf of mexico. If Russian craft start buzzing Delta airlines then look folks, that's a problem.

Jens Stoltenberg: the new man at Nato who must stand up to Putin and his tanks

Interview: the former Prime Minister of Norway takes the reins as Russia sends more forces into Ukraine
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11233349/Russian-warplanes-risking-safety-of-European-airliners-says-Nato-chief.html

He says it's not illegal for Russia to fly warplanes in international air space, but that the problem is the planes are turning off their transponders, not filing flight plans, and not answering calls from civilian ATC.

[Keith_McClary]

Harper is a sock puppet, no doubt about it.

However, there are a lot of ukes in western Canada and if Harper does not cream the vote in the west the Conservatives are toast next election, approx in 1 year.

Do you think they are impressed by his little tantrum, or will they figure out in a year that it's all for show and he's totally ineffectual?

[AndyA]

I think Russia should do exactly as they are told by the US, no matter what! Then 'the world' would like them.

Russia doesn't have to do what the US says to, but it does at least need to work with Angela Merkal and Sweden and Finland.

There's something wrong if someone can't even make socialist dove Germans and Scandinavians happy. And Aussies. All the Aussies wanted was a "I'm sorry," that's actually a bit weak they should be madder than that one would think. They just want an apology.

Russia is working with Germany, Sweden and Finland, what makes you think they are not? Different parties have different interests, I don't understand your concept of working with? Probably as retarded as your concept of 'annexation'. Must be that US education.
Well there is zero evidence from anybody anywhere that Russia had any connection whatsoever to the downing of the Boeing, so why would they apologise, it's like seeing a guy take your wallet then blaming his brother and demanding his brother apologise. So fucking dumb, I can't believe how retarded people are.

[AndyA]

NATO chief warning about the dangers of civilian airliner collision with Russian military aircraft:

Russian warplanes risking safety of European airliners, says Nato chief

Jens Stoltenberg, the new secretary general of Nato, tells the Telegraph that more Russian military jets are flying over Europe without contacting air traffic control, raising the risk of mid-air collisions
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11233349/Russian-warplanes-risking-safety-of-European-airliners-says-Nato-chief.html

And I'm more concerned about the gulf of mexico. If Russian craft start buzzing Delta airlines then look folks, that's a problem.

Jens Stoltenberg: the new man at Nato who must stand up to Putin and his tanks

Interview: the former Prime Minister of Norway takes the reins as Russia sends more forces into Ukraine
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11233349/Russian-warplanes-risking-safety-of-European-airliners-says-Nato-chief.html

He says it's not illegal for Russia to fly warplanes in international air space, but that the problem is the planes are turning off their transponders, not filing flight plans, and not answering calls from civilian ATC.

Seriously? You honestly believe that an airforce plane with advanced radar, is somehow going to crash in midair into a civilian aircraft? That's what you are worried about? JFC! The dumbest shit I hear sometimes. The real concern is the people spouting off this shit to promote an agenda of hatred toward Putin, provoking him at every opportunity, honestly for what? This is the road to war, and that is of concern, not the fantasy of a midair collision.