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Harper tells Putin: "get out of Ukraine," Russia quits G20

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Re: Harper tells Putin: "get out of Ukraine," Russia quits G

Unread postby dissident » Sun 16 Nov 2014, 16:16:24

Repent wrote:Seriously people, I think peace is a better thing than war.

Let's have peace, let's let Russia keep the Ukraine, let's avoid WWIII.

Diplomacy is a lost art which needs to be rediscovered. Want the economy to collapse?- War, Want death destruction and apocalypse?- War, Want environmental catastrophe- War. Want Economic growth, freedom and prosperity- Peace


I do not think it is a matter of Russia keeping Ukraine. Ukraine was free, yes really, since 1991. It did what it wanted including screwing over the Crimeans by revoking their autonomy when it had no right to do, since it did not grant them the autonomy in the first place and Crimea was gifted by Khruschev in the 1950s as an autonomous republic.

The problem is that the Kiev regime is trying to ethnically cleanse Donetsk and Lugansk. They are building filtration camps and have officially announced that lands in these two regions will be given to the various paramilitary fighters who make up the "National Guard" (run by oligarchs such as Kolomoisky as personal armies.) The Kiev regime does not acknowledge any rights of the Donbas people. There were 7 million of them living there in 2013. At minimum 1 million have fled (with over 800,000 going to Russia) since the war started. The refugee numbers are underestimated since many have gone to Russia to live with relatives and never applied for refugee status.

The imperial meddler USA needs to keep its paws off Ukraine. It was doing not so bad until the coup. It was far from perfect but now it is totally f*cked.
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Re: Harper tells Putin: "get out of Ukraine," Russia quits G

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Sun 16 Nov 2014, 17:14:11

AndyA wrote:Ukraine leaders are shutting down the hospitals, schools and banks etc in the south east. Sounds like some top class diplomacy to me. Russia may as well take it, nobody else wants it except as a firing range and genocidal playground. Of course none of this would have happened if the US hadn't sponsored a coup, but I suppose that is ancient history by now.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-1 ... ist-held-r

To implement this decree they will need to produce a map.
This is purportedly the agreed upon Sept. 19 ceasefire line:

EDIT:
Here is the source of the map.
Dear Readers of LiveJournal!
On this blog we publish the maps of military operations in Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republiсs in southeastern Ukraine in Russian, English, French, German, Spanish and Czech.
http://dragon-first-1.livejournal.com/

They have more recent maps, some in English:
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Re: Harper tells Putin: "get out of Ukraine," Russia quits G

Unread postby Withnail » Sun 16 Nov 2014, 18:07:46

Keith_McClary wrote:They have more recent maps, some in English:
Image


I can see a couple of precarious looking Ukrainian Stalingrad style salients that could become casualties of a winter offensive.

Looks like somebody is painting their vehicles up now.

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Re: Harper tells Putin: "get out of Ukraine," Russia quits G

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sun 16 Nov 2014, 18:52:36

dissident wrote:The imperial meddler USA needs to keep its paws off Ukraine. It was doing not so bad until the coup. It was far from perfect but now it is totally f*cked.


It's not fair to call it a coup.

Look I have watched this thing from DAY ONE. I remember the early days of it. What was always remarkable is actually how little violence there was. Those crowds in Crimea would just push against each other, big crowds for and against Russia, but it never did break out into fights and riots and bad violence.

There have been some incidents but really, up until it finally got heated into full war now, I was always struck by how non violent it was.

Ukrainians are pretty good people.

They were horrified by the violence coming from Yanu's government.

There was no "coup." A coup is when some general or colonel in the military takes the side of the opposition and forcefully deposes the president, with arms. That's a coup. That never happened in Ukraine!

Yanu lost all support. The people, the military, the parliament, his own party. There were calls for him to resign, yes. But nobody EVER stormed the Disneyland Dacha. Ukrainians didn't even know how grand it was until AFTER he was gone, then they started wandering up there to take a look.

Yanu just left one day in a helicopter to Russia, on his own. There was no armed coup.

As for imperialist USA, I'm over the top but I'm just a guy on a forum same as you are.

If you look at the people in charge -- the Pentagon, Obama admin, they are actually very careful with everything they say. The Pentagon especially. Always very careful with words, never inflaming.

For example, the WH and Pentagon aren't making any big deal about Russian bomber patrols in the gulf of Mexico.

Their position is that Russia has the right to do this, but, they also very nicely say that they hope Russia uses all appropriate safety precautions.

Make no mistake though -- there can't be any problems going on with our airliners, like a Delta flight to Cozumel, just because our Pentagon are the adults in the room and not irresponsible big mouths doesn't mean there won't be hell to pay if something happens to one of our airliners.

And I'm sure you feel the same, I'm sure you wouldn't like it either if US air force were flying all along Russia's borders -- and sometimes crossing into Russia -- and then it gets so bad that there are near middair collisions, and God forbid that actually happens.

Wouldn't that be horrible? Wouldn't you be so mad about that? So can you understand how others feel, then?

I'd like to stop it with the rhetoric, but I just want to note:

* USA doesn't cyberattack Russia
* USA doesn't do all these air force flights on borders and cross borders, like Russia has been doing
* There are no announced USAF bomber patrols over Murmansk.

So let's just not forget that, this brewing cold war is all one sided so far. Nobody's been looking for a fight over here. Obama and Congress had decided to make big cuts to the military. Europe already did, all through the austerity. At the same time it was Russia that was doing an historic military buildup.
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Re: Harper tells Putin: "get out of Ukraine," Russia quits G

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 16 Nov 2014, 19:04:12

Let's have peace, let's let Russia keep the Ukraine, let's avoid WWIII.


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SO if the US and EU appease Putin and accept the Russian invasion of Ukraine, that will bring peace in our time?
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Re: Harper tells Putin: "get out of Ukraine," Russia quits G

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sun 16 Nov 2014, 19:49:39

Withnail wrote:
Sixstrings wrote:
Cossacks marching in Australia? You don't find that interesting???? 8O


No, why would I?

It's of no importance.

And you've posted the same story twice.


Okay look I finally want to back off the rhetoric. You're right, I post too much. There's just so much Russia news out there.

For example:

Russia to Create Its Own ‘Alternative Wikipedia’

The creation of an “alternative” has already begun, using more than 50,000 books from 27 libraries, according to the announcement. It is unclear if access to the original Wikipedia will be affected or how freely citizens will be able to edit the pages.

Russian President Vladimir Putin has previously called the Internet a “CIA Special project.” Russian authorities have had the power to block access to websites without a court order since February, and two of the first websites banned were pages critical of the government.
https://time.com/3587656/russia-wikipedia/


And holy cow -- look you guys are saying the US is such cowboys but Obama and the state department and the pentagon have actually been grownups in the room all through this.

Whereas Harper, and Cameron, and Europeans are getting very blunt lately and sounding like Russians themselves. Here's the full quote from Stephen Harper:

Stephen Harper reacted to an offer of a handshake from Putin by responding, "I guess I'll shake your hand, but I have only one thing to say to you: You need to get out of Ukraine."


Rest of the article:



I'm sorry, I've just observed the cold war my entire life -- how could anyone ignore it -- so I find this interesting. I've never even met a rude or blunt Canadian. That's about as rude and blunt as it gets: "I guess I'll shake your hand but I have one thing to say to you, get out of Ukraine." Holy cow. No American president has ever been so tough as that and so blunt with anybody.

You guys are talking about provocations and insulting Russia, it's actually little Canada that's gonna get us into darn WWIII.

I agree with Stephen Harper, but being rude is not a solution -- if you feel this strongly then put your boots where your cowboy hat is and deploy some troops and lethal military aid to Kiev.

So anyhow Withnail, I want to drop it with the rhetoric and posting so much but I just find this topic so fascinating. And it's like the more you learn, the more interesting it gets.

Like with the cossacks. I read the one article talking about that town in east Ukraine where a cossack came in from Moscow and proclaimed it a "cossack republic." But I don't think there were any cossacks in this Ukrainian town, to start with. (correct me if I'm wrong)

This whole Russia story is like one things leads to another.

So then I see this story about *cossacks in Australia*. They had some Russian immigrants in Australia that flew over to Ukraine to fight for the rebels, and the cossacks come back and they were protesting at this G20. Surrounded by Australian police.

So that's an interesting story, rising tensions in Australia with their Russian ethnic minority.

You know what, I think it's Russia that has opened pandora's box and has caused what is going to be a very big mess. The cossacks in Australia were saying "democracy should end in Russia," and to respect "the steel leader Putin."

People are getting so worked up. It's WHY thousands of Russian citizens flooded into Ukraine to fight for the rebels, and I guess some flew in from Australia. (not saying the separatists are like ISIS, but it sounds like the same thing you've got a war that was caused by foreign fighters coming in from the outside from other nations)

And that other article I read said that cossacks have some kind of grand leader back in Russia. And that some cossacks want a big cossack republic -- in Ukraine AND Russia too!

Withnail, this stuff is just fascinating, I'm sorry but it's very interesting.

I think Russia has opened a pandora's box with all the nationalism and people whipped up so much. Encouraging balkanization in Ukraine could BACKFIRE and cause ethnicities in Russia to all want their own separatist republic too, it could cause balkanization of Russia.

I think they opened pandora's box, with all this. We'll see where it goes.
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Re: Harper tells Putin: "get out of Ukraine," Russia quits G

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sun 16 Nov 2014, 20:29:42

Plantagenet wrote:
Let's have peace, let's let Russia keep the Ukraine, let's avoid WWIII.


Image
SO if the US and EU appease Putin and accept the Russian invasion of Ukraine, that will bring peace in our time?


Lol Plant, nice to see you around.

What do you think of Stephen Harper and how tough he is? "I guess I'll shake your hand, but I have one thing to say to you: get out of Ukraine." 8O

Russia's not that bad (yet) to be talking to that way, but I'd like to see a US president get tougher about China. It's a dangerous world again, we need a Stephen Harper over here. Or to reach back into our past and find a Teddy Roosevelt, or a Ronald Reagan, or give us an Iron Lady Margaret Thatcher. A happy warrior. A bulldog, like Churchill -- that can turn back the flights of bombers in our gulf of mexico.

Or a George HW Bush, a good decent man, but strong when the cause was right: "this aggression and annexation will not stand."

Or, give me the W team back again -- Dick Cheney, Condi Rice. They worked out an acceptable resolution to Georgia and they did it FAST and this crap did not drag on for over a year with all these dead, and downed airliner, and now threats in the gulf of mexico, worse and worse. Bush team handled Georgia fast, Putin respected them, it worked out.

It ain't workin' out with Democrats in charge, not on the Russia issue anyway, and we have to admit they were wrong about pulling all out of Iraq too. We should have kept some force there, that could have stopped ISIL from taking over the place and then seizing all the good gear we gave to the Iraqis for crying out loud.

And under Obama, our nuclear missile force has become neglected and is falling apart. There was a story on CNN about that the other day. How bad it has gotten. There's this one special wrench they need, but they ran out of these wrenches, so you had this one darn wrench getting fedexed from silo to silo. And all kinds of other problems, like missile bay doors left open and the air force crews asleep. Some cheating on their competency tests. And, the missile defense wing of the air force are stuck with these old helicopters from the vietnam era.

Obama years have been Jimmy Carter all over again. I certainly don't want WWIII, but we do need to get it together over here. The decrepit nuclear deterrent we have is outrageous, why is that not getting addressed.

And now Russian bombers in the gulf of mexico. And they already fly around Alaska all the time, and Canada, and there are Russian drone bases planned too off Alaksa, in the arctic.

It's the Carter years, we're asleep at the wheel.
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Re: Harper tells Putin: "get out of Ukraine," Russia quits G

Unread postby Withnail » Mon 17 Nov 2014, 06:29:25

Sixstrings wrote:
I'm sorry, I've just observed the cold war my entire life -- how could anyone ignore it -- so I find this interesting. I've never even met a rude or blunt Canadian. That's about as rude and blunt as it gets: "I guess I'll shake your hand but I have one thing to say to you, get out of Ukraine." Holy cow. No American president has ever been so tough as that and so blunt with anybody.

You guys are talking about provocations and insulting Russia, it's actually little Canada that's gonna get us into darn WWIII.





I keep telling you, nobody with real power cares what yapping lapdogs like Australia, Canada and the UK say.

They do what their master tells them.
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Re: Harper tells Putin: "get out of Ukraine," Russia quits G

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Mon 17 Nov 2014, 15:15:24

Image
Each dot depicts the location where a U.S. survey respondent situated Ukraine; the dots are colored based on how far removed they are from the actual country, with the most accurate responses in red and the least accurate ones in blue.
...
the further our respondents thought that Ukraine was from its actual location, the more they wanted the U.S. to intervene militarily.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/mon ... intervene/
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Re: Harper tells Putin: "get out of Ukraine," Russia quits G

Unread postby Subjectivist » Mon 17 Nov 2014, 15:41:49

There are a lot of dumb people in the world, including in America.
II Chronicles 7:14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
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Re: Harper tells Putin: "get out of Ukraine," Russia quits G

Unread postby AgentR11 » Thu 20 Nov 2014, 10:37:53

Sixstrings wrote:The ruble has crashed. The stock market is so low now that just one American company -- Apple -- is worth more than the entire Russian stock market.


Six, I am SO sick of this particularly stupid suggestion you make. The ruble, for YEARS has been horrendously and artificially value-pumped by their central bank in order to work in favor of people who have businesses in Russia but do not want to live in Russia.

Putin ended that.

The ruble is now at its natural, freely floating value, the value it should have been at for the past near-decade. The Ruble did NOT crash. And looking at the current 30-day & 6 month chart, USDRUB vs USD[*], the transition from obnoxiously overvalued to correctly priced looks smooth as silk. (dollar has had some serious strengthening overall during the 6-month period, so you have to put things in context) Its a friggin work of art. They did what folks thought couldn't be done while keeping themselves in power. Putin now has something that is much closer to a market economy than it ever has been; though it came at the expense of people that like to live in London and Miami.

BTW, this is the same thing we've been begging China to do since forever, but China's still manipulating the value of their currency, though to a lesser extent than in the past. Either we believe freely floating currencies is good for the world economy, or we don't. I'm big on free markets, I think all currencies should float. If governments want to intervene to protect a specific interest, its should be clear and apparent, write a check and put a name on it.

All to put on Beijing's yoke. I just don't understand it.


Then you're being dense. There is no yoke. Beijing does not care one bit what Russia does on its Western border. Moscow doesn't care one bit what China does on its borders with India, etc. As long as resources can be exported from Siberia, to China, Russia+China is an inevitable match. Now, as good merchants and businessmen, China will of course bargain hard on everything, especially price. But in the end, China will buy from Russia, and sell toys to Russia regardless of what Russia does in the Baltics, Ukraine, etc.

Everything the US or Europe has to offer Russia comes with strings attached. Strings that a Russian would have no trouble in perceiving as intent to cripple or subjugate by finance.

Don't they see it, they will be controlled by Beijing -- did anyone notice how fast the Chinese first lady threw that shawl off, that Putin put on her? That was body language. Those things tell a lot, in Asian cultures.


It is body language, but you're reading it wrong. She would have done exactly the same. had Obama or Cameron done that.

As to being controlled, if you have to be controlled by someone, better someone that has never annihilated any of your major cities. Russia has zero reason to trust Europe or to see Europe as anything other than an aggressive predator who's taken a brief rest, and is now getting ready to resume its natural behavior, if perhaps by novel methodology. Its unfortunate, but history is against trust on this matter.

We in the West, understand that it is no longer in the interests of Germany or England or even the US to invade Russia and destroy Russian cities; but from their viewpoint, all they have is our word; which is worth very little.
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Re: Harper tells Putin: "get out of Ukraine," Russia quits G

Unread postby Strummer » Thu 20 Nov 2014, 10:48:14

Sixstrings wrote:did anyone notice how fast the Chinese first lady threw that shawl off, that Putin put on her? That was body language. Those things tell a lot, in Asian cultures.


Tabloid crap. When you watch the whole video, you'll see that an assistant (or whoever) brought her her jacket immediately after Putin gave her the shawl, that's why she removed it, to put on her own jacket.
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Re: Harper tells Putin: "get out of Ukraine," Russia quits G

Unread postby AgentR11 » Thu 20 Nov 2014, 11:08:03

Sixstrings wrote:So let's just not forget that, this brewing cold war is all one sided so far. Nobody's been looking for a fight over here. Obama and Congress had decided to make big cuts to the military. Europe already did, all through the austerity. At the same time it was Russia that was doing an historic military buildup.


No, its not one sided. I like our side and want us to win big, but we are DEFINITELY in it, and pushing hard. We almost nabbed a golden prize from right under Russia's nose, even if it was nearly valueless to us. A country with little recreational sailing shouldn't be allowed to control a port as beautiful as Sevastopol. lol. That would have been so cool to see a US Navy Cruiser sail into Sevastopol as an owner; to raise a NATO or US flag there would have been an ultimate victory over Russia... Patton's ghost would have resurrected itself and cheered from the top of his grave, it be so awesome. lol. Almost pulled it off too.

I find all this desperate denial language really nauseating. Russia denying that it is engaged in low level warfare with Ukraine; US/EU denying our involvement in Ukraine both pre and post maidan. Its really pathetic if you ask me. Of course Russia's fighting in Ukraine; they are defending something desperately valuable to them, and making it clear that to take Crimea back, WW III will have to be fought, with the Russian promise that nuclear exchange, as in lauch-all, will be the inevitable result. If we want Crimea after exchanging our complete nuclear weapons stockpiles, then I guess we'll probably be able to take it.

And of course the US/EU is fighting in Ukraine, there's stuff in Eastern Ukraine we want, preferably without all the annoying residents in the way; its great they speak Russian and are kinda culturally Russian, as it makes it less likely a Western beer chugger will feel any sympathy at them being driven out.

Six, just accept, Russia is evil; they see territory that they believe is essential, and are fighting for it. Accept, Ukraine is evil, they absolutely intend to remove the Russian sympathetic population from Donbass, either by displacing them to Russia proper, or by imprisoning them in camps until they are no longer able to maintain title/claim(such as it might be) to any home or farm. They are two vile, repulsive, predatory scum, in a blood soaked competition for oil, gas, coal, farmland, and some Black Sea port infrastructure.

I think we should train their officer corp, and arm them to the teeth so they can neutralize each other.
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Re: Harper tells Putin: "get out of Ukraine," Russia quits G

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Thu 20 Nov 2014, 17:32:10

AgentR11 wrote:We in the West, understand that it is no longer in the interests of Germany or England or even the US to invade Russia and destroy Russian cities; ...
It could be lucrative to break up the Russian Federation and "liberate" the resource-rich Eastern republics.
I'm sure they are researching the appropriate colour for the revolutions.
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Re: Harper tells Putin: "get out of Ukraine," Russia quits G

Unread postby AgentR11 » Thu 20 Nov 2014, 18:22:39

Color revolutions North of China are a fantasy of the West of course... a fantasy completely outside the realm of the possible.
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Re: Harper tells Putin: "get out of Ukraine," Russia quits G

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Fri 21 Nov 2014, 00:59:55

The Missing Burden of Proof
Russia Invades Ukraine: Again. And Again. And Yet Again
by WILLIAM BLUM
“Russia reinforced what Western and Ukrainian officials described as a stealth invasion on Wednesday [August 27], sending armored troops across the border as it expanded the conflict to a new section of Ukrainian territory. The latest incursion, which Ukraine’s military said included five armored personnel carriers, was at least the third movement of troops and weapons from Russia across the southeast part of the border this week.”

None of the photos accompanying this New York Times story online showed any of these Russian troops or armored vehicles.

“The Obama administration,” the story continued, “has asserted over the past week that the Russians had moved artillery, air-defense systems and armor to help the separatists in Donetsk and Luhansk. ‘These incursions indicate a Russian-directed counteroffensive is likely underway’, Jen Psaki, the State Department spokeswoman, said. At the department’s daily briefing in Washington, Ms. Psaki also criticized what she called the Russian government’s ‘unwillingness to tell the truth’ that its military had sent soldiers as deep as 30 miles inside Ukraine territory.”

Thirty miles inside Ukraine territory and not a single satellite photo, not a camera anywhere around, not even a one-minute video to show for it. “Ms. Psaki apparently [sic] was referring to videos of captured Russian soldiers, distributed by the Ukrainian government.” The Times apparently forgot to inform its readers where they could see these videos.

“The Russian aim, one Western official said, may possibly be to seize an outlet to the sea in the event that Russia tries to establish a separatist enclave in eastern Ukraine.”

This of course hasn’t taken place. So what happened to all these Russian soldiers 30 miles inside Ukraine? What happened to all the armored vehicles, weapons, and equipment?

“The United States has photographs that show the Russian artillery moved into Ukraine, American officials say. One photo dated last Thursday, shown to a New York Times reporter, shows Russian military units moving self-propelled artillery into Ukraine. Another photo, dated Saturday, shows the artillery in firing positions in Ukraine.”

Where are these photographs? And how will we know that these are Russian soldiers? And how will we know that the photos were taken in Ukraine? But most importantly, where are the fucking photographs?

Why am I so cynical? Because the Ukrainian and US governments have been feeding us these scare stories for eight months now, without clear visual or other evidence, often without even common sense. Here are a few of the many other examples, before and after the one above:

* The Wall Street Journal (March 28) reported: “Russian troops massing near Ukraine are actively concealing their positions and establishing supply lines that could be used in a prolonged deployment, ratcheting up concerns that Moscow is preparing for another [sic] major incursion and not conducting exercises as it claims, US officials said.”

* “The Ukrainian government charged that the Russian military was not only approaching but had actually crossed the border into rebel-held regions.” (Washington Post, November 7)

* “U.S. Air Force Gen. Philip M. Breedlove told reporters in Bulgaria that NATO had observed Russian tanks, Russian artillery, Russian air defense systems and Russian combat troops enter Ukraine across a completely wide-open border with Russia in the previous two days.” (Washington Post, November 13)

* “Ukraine accuses Russia of sending more soldiers and weapons to help rebels prepare for a new offensive. The Kremlin has repeatedly denied aiding the separatists.” (Reuters, November 16)

Since the February US-backed coup in Ukraine, the State Department has made one accusation after another about Russian military actions in Eastern Ukraine without presenting any kind of satellite imagery or other visual or documentary evidence; or they present something that’s very unclear and wholly inconclusive, such as unmarked vehicles, or unsourced reports, or citing “social media”; what we’re left with is often no more than just an accusation. The Ukrainian government has matched them.

On top of all this we should keep in mind that if Moscow decided to invade Ukraine they’d certainly provide air cover for their ground forces. There has been no mention of air cover.

This is all reminiscent of the numerous stories in the past three years of “Syrian planes bombing defenseless citizens”. Have you ever seen a photo or video of a Syrian government plane dropping bombs? Or of the bombs exploding? When the source of the story is mentioned, it’s almost invariably the rebels who are fighting against the Syrian government. Then there’s the “chemical weapon” attacks by the same evil Assad government. When a photo or video has accompanied the story I’ve never once seen grieving loved ones or media present; not one person can be seen wearing a gas mask. Is it only children killed or suffering? No rebels?

And then there’s the July 17 shootdown of Malaysia Flight MH17, over eastern Ukraine, taking 298 lives, which Washington would love to pin on Russia or the pro-Russian rebels. The US government – and therefore the US media, the EU, and NATO – want us all to believe it was the rebels and/or Russia behind it. The world is still waiting for any evidence. Or even a motivation. Anything at all. President Obama is not waiting. In a talk on November 15 in Australia, he spoke of “opposing Russia’s aggression against Ukraine – which is a threat to the world, as we saw in the appalling shoot-down of MH17”. Based on my reading, I’d guess that it was the Ukranian government behind the shootdown, mistaking it for Putin’s plane that reportedly was in the area.

Can it be said with certainty that all the above accusations were lies? No, but the burden of proof is on the accusers, and the world is still waiting. The accusers would like to create the impression that there are two sides to each question without actually having to supply one of them.
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Re: Harper tells Putin: "get out of Ukraine," Russia quits G

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 21 Nov 2014, 02:02:34

Unexplained flash of light filling the sky in Russia, some speculate it could be military test launch of something, or detonating old ordinance, but nobody knows:

Image

4 Possible Explanations for That Mysterious Flash of Light Over Russia

2. Military explosion

Was the military were behind the flash? A scheduled explosive ordnance disposal could have taken place,local city officials said, with ammunition lighting up the sky. It could have been a military launch too. Although there’s no launch vicinity in that immediate area, the region is reportedly in the flight path of a launch base. That means a rocket could have blown up en route; the brevity and brightness of the blast seem consistent with that. The Russian military has denied any involvement — but that’s hardly a surprise.
http://time.com/3598224/russia-flash-light-sverdlovsk/


And remember, that Moscow recently had a mysterious strong chemical odor in the air, some kind of spill or something but the authorities were vague about it.
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Re: Harper tells Putin: "get out of Ukraine," Russia quits G

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 21 Nov 2014, 02:07:54

Image
U.S. Vice President Joe Biden (L) and his wife Jill wave upon their arrival at Boryspil International airport outside Kiev November 20, 2014.

Russia warns U.S. against arms to Ukraine as Biden due in Kiev

Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman Alexander Lukashevich said in Moscow that a U.S. official's suggestion Washington should consider sending arms to Ukraine, where pro-Russian rebels have been fighting government forces since April, sent a "very serious signal".

Lukashevich cautioned against "a major change in policy of the (U.S.) administration in regard to the conflict" in Ukraine.

"That (would be) a direct violation of agreements reached, including (agreements reached) with the participation of the United States," he said.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/20/us-ukraine-crisis-idUSKCN0J41US20141120


Obama did a 180 and moved so fast and boldly on the immigration exec order.. I wonder if maybe they have a different gameplan now, and may move fast on Ukraine.

That, or R's may be so mad about the immigration stuff they may force a ukraine arms bill with supermajority, overcoming veto.
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Re: Harper tells Putin: "get out of Ukraine," Russia quits G

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 21 Nov 2014, 02:14:45

Putin says everything possible must be done to prevent a Ukrainian-style "color revolution" in Russia. He talks about "radical extremist sites on the internet," but what's he mean by that, does that mean British papers and BBC and Euro stuff and Canadian media and New York Times?

Putin says Russia must prevent 'color revolution'

President Vladimir Putin said on Thursday Moscow must prevent a "color revolution" in Russia and stop extremism, warning of the threat posed by illegal immigration and "radical" Internet sites that recruit youths.

Putin's comments at a meeting of his advisory Security Council on combating extremism, underlined his wariness about Russia being hit by a popular uprising like those in other former Soviet republics known as the color revolutions.

"In the modern world extremism is being used as a geopolitical instrument and for remaking spheres of influence. We see what tragic consequences the wave of so-called color revolutions led to," he said.

"For us this is a lesson and a warning. We should do everything necessary so that nothing similar ever happens in Russia."

Putin's comments also point to concern about outside interference. He said on Tuesday the United States is trying to subjugate Russia, blames the West for the overthrow of a Moscow-backed president in Ukraine in February and accused Washington of stoking protests against him in the winter of 2011-12.

The annexation of Crimea in March and a surge of patriotism, in Russia over the crisis in Ukraine, fed by pliant media, has boosted Putin's popularity at home and neutered the opposition.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/20/us-russia-putin-security-idUSKCN0J41J620141120
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Re: Harper tells Putin: "get out of Ukraine," Russia quits G

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 21 Nov 2014, 02:43:47

News roundup from Moscow Times.



Months After Russian Annexation, Crimeans Ask: 'Where Is Our Money?'

"They are not returning the money," complained Margarita Pobudilova, a 77-year-old retired factory worker who for months has been unable to access more than $3,000 of her life savings.

Ten months after Russia invaded this Black Sea peninsula and seized it from Ukraine, the financial fallout is still being felt. Thousands of ordinary citizens have little or no access to their funds.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/ten-months-after-russian-annexation-crimean-savers-ask-where-is-our-money-/511482.html


And lastly, Kiev brings back the Orthodox santa claus, replacing the soviet-era Father Frost:

The statement by the Kiev administration did not specify whether its decision to put Saint Mykolay in charge of the holidays was motivated by a wish to break away from Russian or Soviet practices.

The Soviet regime, which frowned upon any demonstrations of religious faith, abolished all tsarist-era church holidays in the country after the Bolshevik Revolution. It then promoted New Year's Eve as a major holiday to allow the population accustomed to large-scale festivities at the turn of the year to keep their celebration.

The Soviet New Year also took on some of the traditional Christmas attributes, with families decorating "New Year trees," and children receiving gifts from Father Frost, or Ded Moroz — who, like Santa Claus, is generally represented as a white-bearded man dressed in a red coat with white cuffs.

But unlike Christmas, New Year celebrations in Russia and Ukraine are nearly universal and are embraced by people who consider themselves atheists or are followers of religions that do not celebrate Christmas, such as Jews.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/kiev-brings-back-orthodox-santa-claus-instead-of-soviet-era-father-frost/511488.html
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