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Fossil Fuels are BOOMING in growth (including COAL)

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Fossil Fuels are BOOMING in growth (including COAL)

Unread postby C8 » Thu 09 Jul 2015, 13:19:17

Here is a fun chart for all you chart watchers:

Image

A couple of takaways:

1. Yes, renewables are increasing as a share of energy sources- but at a miserable crawl. At this rate renewables MAY account for only 20% of energy sources in another 30 years.

2. Coal has been flat for most of this period but has been positively kicking butt the last 15 years (and all fossil fuels have been rising rapidly- so much for "peak whatever")

3. Nuclear power hasn't grown that much in the last 20 years (thanks Democrats and anti-nuclear activists for pushing the whole world deep into global warming by making fossil fuels the only other affordable option!!!! You hysterical foot stomping has been a tremendous service to future generations)

4. Were screwed
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Re: Fossil Fuels are BOOMING in growth (including COAL)

Unread postby ennui2 » Thu 09 Jul 2015, 13:43:33

Yes. Peak oil is definitely a non-issue right now, no matter what pstarr says, and global warming is the world's most acute problem.

We could do without the pointless partisan finger-pointing, though. Just look at Fukushima for why anyone would be anti-nuke.
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Re: Fossil Fuels are BOOMING in growth (including COAL)

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 09 Jul 2015, 14:12:02

C8 wrote: Coal has been flat for most of this period but has been positively kicking butt the last 15 years ....


Yup.

Blame Al Gore and his idiotic decision to let China weasel out of the Kyoto Accords----virtually all the huge rise in coal use comes from China's subsequent massive increase in the use of coal-fired electrical plants.

C8 wrote: Were screwed


Yup.
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Re: Fossil Fuels are BOOMING in growth (including COAL)

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Thu 09 Jul 2015, 14:17:44

"...and all fossil fuels have been rising rapidly- so much for "peak whatever". And we do understand that this is the profile of peak whatever: every increasing right up to the point of reaching the peak, don't we?
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Re: Fossil Fuels are BOOMING in growth (including COAL)

Unread postby ennui2 » Thu 09 Jul 2015, 14:35:11

Plantagenet wrote:Blame Al Gore and his idiotic decision to let China


Nothing became of Kyoto anyway. It's not Al Gore's fault. It's everybody's for wanting to continue BAU. What's your personal carbon footprint up in Alaska, the petro-state? You said you were "loving" global warming for how it's made you more comfortable up there anyway. So do you genuinely give a crap or are you just using the issue to bash Dems?
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Re: Fossil Fuels are BOOMING in growth (including COAL)

Unread postby Tanada » Thu 09 Jul 2015, 15:57:42

C8 wrote:Here is a fun chart for all you chart watchers:

A couple of takaways:

1. Yes, renewables are increasing as a share of energy sources- but at a miserable crawl. At this rate renewables MAY account for only 20% of energy sources in another 30 years.

2. Coal has been flat for most of this period but has been positively kicking butt the last 15 years (and all fossil fuels have been rising rapidly- so much for "peak whatever")

3. Nuclear power hasn't grown that much in the last 20 years (thanks Democrats and anti-nuclear activists for pushing the whole world deep into global warming by making fossil fuels the only other affordable option!!!! You hysterical foot stomping has been a tremendous service to future generations)

4. Were screwed


Correct on all counts, I have been personally fighting with the anti-nuke wing of the environmentalist movement for 30 plus years and have seen little headway in the face of dogmatic responses worn out in the 1960's and still repeated ad nauseum today.
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Re: Fossil Fuels are BOOMING in growth (including COAL)

Unread postby Tanada » Thu 09 Jul 2015, 16:25:35

Coal is cheap and plentiful, that is all TPTB care about because supplying cheap electricity to the non-elites helps them maintain their grip on political power.
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Re: Fossil Fuels are BOOMING in growth (including COAL)

Unread postby ennui2 » Thu 09 Jul 2015, 16:27:24

Tanada wrote:Coal is cheap and plentiful, that is all TPTB care about because supplying cheap electricity to the non-elites helps them maintain their grip on political power.


Yeah. "non-elites" would be perfectly happy if they didn't have electricity. No coal-demand there. They're all innocent little victims. It's all those nasty TPTB's! If not for them, nobody would be baking the planet, right? Come on. This is becoming quite the blame-game thread, as usual.

Image
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Re: Fossil Fuels are BOOMING in growth (including COAL)

Unread postby Tanada » Thu 09 Jul 2015, 16:43:05

ennui2 wrote:
Tanada wrote:Coal is cheap and plentiful, that is all TPTB care about because supplying cheap electricity to the non-elites helps them maintain their grip on political power.


Yeah. "non-elites" would be perfectly happy if they didn't have electricity. No coal-demand there. They're all innocent little victims. It's all those nasty TPTB's! If not for them, nobody would be baking the planet, right? Come on. This is becoming quite the blame-game thread, as usual.


Stop playing the fool Mos, I ain't interested. TPTB decide what kind of plant gets built and what kind of fuels they use. My only speculation is what their motivation for choosing cheap fossil fuels is, which I stated plainly.
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Re: Fossil Fuels are BOOMING in growth (including COAL)

Unread postby ennui2 » Thu 09 Jul 2015, 16:58:44

Tanada wrote:Stop playing the fool Mos, I ain't interested. TPTB decide what kind of plant gets built and what kind of fuels they use.


TPTB being whom? Elected officials? Who elect them? NIMBYs? Some of the people who, in another recent story, are buying SUVs and trucks like they're going out of style? But no, let's just construct the narrative of innocent plebes who are being forced by TPTB into using coal-based power against their will.

Tanada wrote:My only speculation is what their motivation for choosing cheap fossil fuels is, which I stated plainly.


Which amounts to "I think they're evil, so manufacture some mustache-twisting rationalization to back that up".
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Re: Fossil Fuels are BOOMING in growth (including COAL)

Unread postby StarvingLion » Thu 09 Jul 2015, 17:03:10

Peak Oil has never been more real. There simply isn't going to be a managed descent. The train is going over the cliff. When the Sun runs out of fuel it does not simply get cooler and then go poof into the night...it gets hotter and engulfs the planet. Peak Oil is causing the economies of the world to get hotter and this mathematician explains why: the rules of fractional reserve banking have been thrown out the window.

http://gregpytel.blogspot.ca/2009/04/la ... story.html
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Re: Fossil Fuels are BOOMING in growth (including COAL)

Unread postby ennui2 » Thu 09 Jul 2015, 17:06:39

Read Graeme's link in the other thread.

Lower demand for U.S. coal, primarily used to generate electric power, driven by competitive natural gas prices, increasing use of renewable generation, flat electricity demand, and environmental regulations *, has contributed to lower U.S. coal production.


* Brought to you by TPTB.
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Re: Fossil Fuels are BOOMING in growth (including COAL)

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Thu 09 Jul 2015, 17:19:43

T - " TPTB decide what kind of plant gets built and what kind of fuels they use. My only speculation is what their motivation for choosing cheap fossil fuels is..." I can only speak about Texas. Been a TBC (Texan By Choice) for over 35 years. TPTB and the state politicians had little say in the subject of either burning lignite, building the big S Texas Nuclear plant or building out wind power. TPTB did it because that's what the consumers wanted and would pay for. The politicians did it because they wouldn't get re-elected by the consumers if they didn't.

Folks in Texas wouldn't like to hear me say this but it is what it is: Texans don't care about AGW or about future generations. They don't care what the politicians say we should doing order to be good stewards of the land. And they don't care what TPTB want to do. They want what they want and f*ck everyone else. LOL.

OTOH are Texans really that different from all other US citizens? The only significant difference is that we don't really give a sh*t what the rest of you think about us. LOL.
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Re: Fossil Fuels are BOOMING in growth (including COAL)

Unread postby Subjectivist » Thu 09 Jul 2015, 18:28:12

ROCKMAN wrote:T - " TPTB decide what kind of plant gets built and what kind of fuels they use. My only speculation is what their motivation for choosing cheap fossil fuels is..." I can only speak about Texas. Been a TBC (Texan By Choice) for over 35 years. TPTB and the state politicians had little say in the subject of either burning lignite, building the big S Texas Nuclear plant or building out wind power. TPTB did it because that's what the consumers wanted and would pay for. The politicians did it because they wouldn't get re-elected by the consumers if they didn't.

Folks in Texas wouldn't like to hear me say this but it is what it is: Texans don't care about AGW or about future generations. They don't care what the politicians say we should doing order to be good stewards of the land. And they don't care what TPTB want to do. They want what they want and f*ck everyone else. LOL.

OTOH are Texans really that different from all other US citizens? The only significant difference is that we don't really give a sh*t what the rest of you think about us. LOL.


What about China, India, Indonesia, and every other country like Germany? Are the Texas voters responsible for them too?
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Re: Fossil Fuels are BOOMING in growth (including COAL)

Unread postby Apneaman » Thu 09 Jul 2015, 19:37:21

Thank you Plant. You're pretzel logic comment about Al Gore has proven every assertion I have ever made about ape psychology being at the root of our demise as a species and that every tribe will blame the other tribe and we will attempt tear each other apart. Thank you Plant.
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Re: Fossil Fuels are BOOMING in growth (including COAL)

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 09 Jul 2015, 20:48:20

Apneaman wrote:You're pretzel logic comment....


1. So much of what you write is gibberish.

The word "you're" is a contraction of the words "you are". What you have written means "you are pretzel logic comment....", i.e. you've written complete nonsense.

2. In spite of your poor writing skills, I think you are disagreeing with my comment that Al Gore bears a share of responsibility for the boom in fossil fuel use after the Kyoto Accords was signed. Well---lets look at the facts. Al Gore was the US negotiator for the UN Kyoto Accords on Climate Change. At Kyoto Al Gore agreed to allow China a special status so China could avoid making any commitments to limit CO2 emissions under the Kyoto Accords. After the negotiations were completed on the Treaty, Al Gore came under severe criticism for not including China in the treaty. There were concerns then China would rapidly build coal-fired plants and become the #1 polluter in the world. These concerns and criticisms were so severe that Clinton and Gore never submitted the Kyoto Accords for ratification by the US senate---they knew that both Ds and Rs would reject it because of the open door for China to pollute. Since Clinton and Gore wouldn't submit the treaty, the US Senate took an advisory vote and the vote was something like 98-0 against the treaty, with one of the concerns being Al Gore's opt out for China on limiting CO2 emissions.

Sure enough, the critics of Al Gore and his cave in to China on CO2 emissions at Kyoto have been proven right. China is now the #1 CO2 polluter in the world, thanks to the spurt of coal-fired power plants they built in the last 15 years after Gore let them off the hook in Kyoto.

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Re: Fossil Fuels are BOOMING in growth (including COAL)

Unread postby Poordogabone » Thu 09 Jul 2015, 23:28:44

Sure China is burning more coal than everyone and who is buying the crap that is manufactured with all that coal? Who is making huge profits from China's coal manufactured goods? Which economy profits the most from outsourcing pollution?
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Re: Fossil Fuels are BOOMING in growth (including COAL)

Unread postby Simon_R » Fri 10 Jul 2015, 05:57:54

Hi Everyone

TPTB do not determine what generators are built, the best they can do is alter regulatory conditions to nudge decisions in a certain direction.

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Re: Fossil Fuels are BOOMING in growth (including COAL)

Unread postby dashster » Fri 10 Jul 2015, 08:29:10

Plantagenet wrote:
C8 wrote: Coal has been flat for most of this period but has been positively kicking butt the last 15 years ....


Yup.

Blame Al Gore and his idiotic decision to let China weasel out of the Kyoto Accords----virtually all the huge rise in coal use comes from China's subsequent massive increase in the use of coal-fired electrical plants.



I would blame the CEOs and the politicians they buy for exporting massive amounts of jobs to China. Tricky Dick Nixon had it all wrong when he celebrated "opening up China".
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