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Five Iranian boats fire shots in the Persian Gulf

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Five Iranian boats fire shots in the Persian Gulf

Unread postby Sixstrings » Thu 14 May 2015, 12:08:33

First on CNN: Five Iranian boats fire shots in the Persian Gulf

(CNN)Five Iranian boats fired shots across the bow of a Singapore flagged cargo vessel in the Persian Gulf on Thursday in an attempt to potentially stop the ship, a U.S. official told CNN. For the first time, the incident brought another Persian Gulf nation into the recent rising maritime tensions in the region.

It is not yet clear if any of the rounds hit the Alpine Eternity. There were no U.S. citizens or cargo on board. The Pentagon is still gathering information about the incident.

The incident began when five small fast boats, believed to be manned by Iran's Revolutionary Guard Corps Navy approached the cargo vessel just off the coast of the United Arab Emirates but in international water, the official said.

These Iranian boats are typically manned with smaller caliber weapons such as machine guns.

The Iranian boats fired across the bow, and at that point the cargo vessel turned and escaped by entering into UAE territorial waters, according to initial U.S. military reports of the incident. The UAE sent three of its coast guard boats out to the cargo vessel.

The incident began with the Iranians ordering the ship into Iranian waters. When the ships master refused, the Iranians began to fire in a way to try to disable the ship, not just as warning shots, the U.S. official said.

Several shots hit the cargo ship, but did not disable it. The ship went into UAE waters and the Iranians followed it into those territorial waters, continuing to fire, before breaking off.

The cargo ship's master did call coalition warships in the vicinity on the radio including U.S. Navy warships to ask for help when the incident began. A P-3 from a country in the region was sent overhead and the Navy began moving, but the incident was over before it could get there.

The Pentagon recently stopped escorting commercial vessels through the Strait of Hormuz and it's not clear if those operations will resume. They had been escorting commercial shipping but of two recent Iranian incidents interfering with cargo shipping in the area.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/14/politics/persian-gulf-iranian-boats-shots-fired/index.html


Hm..

I also read that Iran has already seized one cargo ship, from some island nation somewhere in the Pacific I can't remember where. Big huge container cargo ship; Iran claims the ship's flag country "owes Iran unpaid debts."

I don't know folks, what do you do here? This is inexcusable, by Iran. This is War of 1812 stuff. You can't just go seizing ships on the high seas.

USA has a natl security interest in shipping lanes remaining open, in international waters.

So wtf.

We're still negotiating with Iran for this nuclear deal thing. Why are we still doing that. This is just unacceptable, no nation can be allowed to do this, you can't run around being pirates on the high seas and that's just okay.

I think Obama should issue an executive order that the US Navy will sink any ship that is firing on a cargo ship, in the Persian Gulf.

What other opinion can one have, I know I'm trying to not be a neocon warhawk, but this is old school piracy on the high seas stuff you just can't let this go on.
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Re: Five Iranian boats fire shots in the Persian Gulf

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Thu 14 May 2015, 13:13:30

Hmmmm..... the Marines would have the Viper helicopter ("Zulu Cobra"), but it only has a range of 140 miles. I'd sure like to see some 20 mm gun camera footage.

My guess is that in a couple years is the new precision 30 mm cannon that is the main gun of the newest C130 gunship is going to end up in drones. We'll have drones with long loiter times autonomously patrolling their routes until something pops up that needs blasting, and then the human operator will log in. In areas where they get shot down, we'll also fly balsa wood decoys just to draw fire.
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Re: Five Iranian boats fire shots in the Persian Gulf

Unread postby Sixstrings » Thu 14 May 2015, 13:32:47

Yep.. the skies black with drones..

Drones in the air, drones in the sea, drones in space, the Drone Wars..

And google robotic stormtroopers fighting each other (and people too)..

Image
Image

But that's in the future, right now the problem is a bunch of crazy Iranian Revolutionary Guards cruising around in inflatable boats firing machine guns on cargo container ships.

So what's to be done about that, Preston?

Upon further reflection, I'll not jump to the "do something" position because fact remains we are not "doing something" on these domestic issues.

I'll stay with the Left on this one. If Big Business wants its shipping lanes protected and kept open, and if they want the Little People to vote to protect Big Business's international endeavors, then Big Business needs to give back to the Little People back on the homefront.

We can't look out for them, until they start looking out for us too.

I'd like to start seeing a real minimum wage bill attached to ANY new war funding bill, or trade pact deal. Democrats (if only there were any real ones) ought to start holding up EVERYTHING business wants, UNTIL Big Business does something for the people.

I think that would be fair. Yes, business's shipping lanes need to be protected and kept open, but the 99% needs protection too so it's both together or they don't get what they want.

(unless the Iranians go after an actual American flagged ship. The flag is the flag at that point, whether it's a USN aircraft carrier or a cargo container ship or somebody's sailboat.. so far Iran is seizing / firing on obscure Pacific island nation flagged ships, and now Singapore..

I'm not anti-American, I hope you all know that, I understand these neocon things and I understand about shipping lanes but seriously -- if they come to us saying we've got to have another war, then it's time to raise the goshdarn minimum wage too and do some things for people in the Homeland too, and boost wages up, this overseas stuff is supposed to be FOR US, not that we are all FOR IT.

The problem that the Republicans are having with their foreign policy, in recent years, is that maybe they ARE right strategically -- but it's just that the strategy has become detached from any benefit to the 99%.

That's the bottom line on it. I was just watching Foxnews and they were talking about this anti-war college student, saying why don't young people believe in American Exceptionalism -- well, that's because it's become American global CORPORATE exceptionalism, it's left too many behind and they're not a part of it, that's the whole problem.)
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Re: Five Iranian boats fire shots in the Persian Gulf

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Thu 14 May 2015, 14:05:10

What should we do? We invaded Vietnam over the Tonkin Gulf incident, which seems to have turned out to be a hoax or the Navy firing thousands of rounds at clouds and shadows.

On the other hand, when Israel strafed the USS Liberty for hours and killed 34 Americans, we hardly said "Boo."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident
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Re: Five Iranian boats fire shots in the Persian Gulf

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Thu 14 May 2015, 14:06:06

Save the Rich
Everyone knows these times are really tough
And we need to band together and say we've had enough
All the jobless people need to learn to be content
Cause what we need to do is protect our one percent

Save the rich
Let them know you care
Don't leave them to languish
In their penthouse of despair

Save the rich
Let their bonuses be swollen
And let them keep it all tax free
Even if it's stolen

Save the rich

Let's give our job creators
More than their fare share
So they can go to Asia
And create jobs over there

There's loopholes and exemptions
And children to exploit
So give them special tax breaks
Go f*ck yourself Detroit

And those who don't create jobs
Really need help too
Cause without their 7th home
How will they make it through

It's not time for complaining
Not the time for a class war
It's time to sacrifice yourself
To give them more and more and more
And more and more and more

Save the rich
America's built on corporate greed
It's not Wall Street's fault
If you can't get what you need

Save the rich
Don't go crying to mommy
Cause if you don't agree
Than you're socialist commie

Save the rich

Blame yourself for your problems
Not the bad economy
So what if those who have the most
Are the ones who put it in jeopardy

F*ck your student loans
F*ck your kids and their health care
It'll only take 10,000 of your jobs
To put another private jet in the air

Save the rich
It's so easy to do
Just let yourself be ignorant
To what's been done to you

Save the rich
By doing nothing at all
Deny all sense and logic
And just think really small
You should think really small
Or just don't think at all
And save the rich
Last edited by Cid_Yama on Thu 14 May 2015, 14:23:40, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Five Iranian boats fire shots in the Persian Gulf

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Thu 14 May 2015, 14:11:11

Unfortunately, the Mullahs would not be behaving this aggressively if they did not have an ace up their sleeves (I don't even know if Poker is played over there, never having had the pleasure of visiting the sandbox).

I believe that ace is very likely a nuclear cruise missile. The warheads are probably still scarce enough that they would not be used on a lesser target, and are reserved for important things like a US Carrier Task Force or attacking the State of Israel.

I was never in the USN, but even I can understand that a US carrier group can never again enter the Strait of Hormuz. The only US assets we can have in the Persian Gulf now are submarines.

Six, US politics really does not belong in this thread. We have a Forum for it. Geopolitics only, please.
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Re: Five Iranian boats fire shots in the Persian Gulf

Unread postby Sixstrings » Thu 14 May 2015, 14:28:22

KaiserJeep wrote:Six, US politics really does not belong in this thread. We have a Forum for it. Geopolitics only, please.


All politics is local.

Geopolitics IS VERY MUCH ABOUT the price of bread, somewhere. And then corporate interests. And then some ideology thrown in too, and yes I'm a Christian and I am pro American so that's a factor too. What else do you think war is about? It's about resources and ideology and control, and who benefits and who does not.

I would probably agree with you on all your analysis of this situation in the Persian Gulf -- I would probably say R's really do know what needs to be done, short of another full on Iraq War -- but I'm also saying they have lost too many of the American people, to ever get any support, for what Republicans would like to do abroad.

I started this thread, if anyone wants to give their reasons -- for or against -- for maybe going to war with Iran, and at what point they would agree with war and for what reasons, then they are free to say what those reasons are.

So you gave a reason -- that you suspect Iran may actually already have nukes.

But if that's the case, then it's already too late. (or not? :?: )

What are you thinking -- were Republican neocons right all along? About Iran? (honest question, no angle)
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Re: Five Iranian boats fire shots in the Persian Gulf

Unread postby Sixstrings » Thu 14 May 2015, 14:58:16

PrestonSturges wrote:What should we do? We invaded Vietnam over the Tonkin Gulf incident, which seems to have turned out to be a hoax or the Navy firing thousands of rounds at clouds and shadows.


I don't actually buy into Tonkin Gulf being a hoax, but that was a situation where the Vietnamese were looking for a fight and we were also right there looking for a fight, and they fired the first shot.

So here we go, same thing with Iran.

We'll see what the Obama admin will do on this. Right now they've got a big problem with the all the US sunni allies over there, king of SA didn't go to the meeting they are having now. KSA is also saying it will go forward with a nuclear program and match whatever Iran's progress towards nukes, is.

The situation is that there's a sunni-shia conflict brewing in the ME. KSA and Israel and the sunni countries don't want the sanctions off Iran, because then Iran has more money and is more a threat to them, and Iran is working on nukes too.

So now Iran is shooting at ships, too.

But where do we really fit into all this? Maybe Obama PULLING out of this region and trying to stay the heck out of it is best.

We don't really need KSA's oil anymore. Yet, the West + China and the world DO need the regions oil to flow and shipping lanes to remain open.

And so I would say whatever we do needs to be with an international coalition. It really shouldn't just be the US Navy over there with just the sunni coalition.

I don't know, I think maybe we shouldn't be doing anything, unless a more international coalition has formed and there's a UN resolution passed about it.

This is a tough one -- what should Obama do -- should the USA take it upon itself to protect ALL cargo ships, regardless of flag country, in the Persian Gulf?

Yes or no, what should Obama do?

This is actually a really tough situation, is Iran like a North Korea and we can just let it get nukes and things will be okay, or does Iran actually need to be stopped EARLY. :?: :?: :?:

I'm honestly not sure. If they want a war bill though, then raise the darn minimum wage and do some things for people on the homefront too, or maybe the people can't support support global policing. (it's actually the working class families that send their sons to these wars!)

OR AT LEAST ***tax the rich*** to pay for a war! And not go further into national debt. I think these are valid points to make, even though this is "geopolitics." We rushed into the last war way too fast, we do need to be more thoughtful next time around.
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Re: Five Iranian boats fire shots in the Persian Gulf

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Thu 14 May 2015, 15:12:36

I'm thinking that Teddy R. was absolutely right when he said "speak softly and carry a big stick."
Image

The nukes are the ultimate big stick. The Mullahs are now quieting this incident as they proceed down the path of hardening their own resistance to retaliatory nuclear air strikes from Israel. I'm betting each has their own spider hole under a mountain, lined with silk and a ready supply of wives.

One should be comfortable as you cause the world to burn, because you want to be around to enjoy the fires.

The true status of the US and the UN is that of minor distractions from their holy purpose of exterminating the Jews.

The actual stance taken by any American politician of either party is irrelevant. The Mullahs now have the means to Jihad against Israel. The Western nations will all starve, shivering in the dark, after the whole Middle East burns with nuclear fire, and glows in the dark.

Our only hope: The Mullahs are not really fanatics. Hold your breath...
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Re: Five Iranian boats fire shots in the Persian Gulf

Unread postby Sixstrings » Thu 14 May 2015, 16:02:44

Teddy Roosevelt was right on domestic policy too, though. That's the difference.

As it stands, this thing is a sunni shia regional war and Israel is allied to the sunni states versus Iran -- I'm not convinced why we are in this.

For one thing -- isn't it China and India that get their oil from the ME? So why can't China go down there and bring stability? Why must it be us, alone, all the time?

Having said the above, if Iranians go after any Americans or fire on a US flagged ship then yeah, we need to hit back. I'm still the same old neocon I ever was, I'm just saying -- if you come to me with a war bill, then I want to see a minimum wage increase in that as well. And pro-America policies here on American soil, building this place up, as well. And taxes on the rich, to pay for the war. If a war is so darn important, then conservatives should be able to do the above, if John McCain can't do that then I guess the war isn't that important.
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Re: Five Iranian boats fire shots in the Persian Gulf

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Thu 14 May 2015, 16:29:04

KaiserJeep wrote:I'm thinking that Teddy R. was absolutely right when he said "speak softly and carry a big stick."
Image


Did you notice that Teddy is shown pulling toy boats, which are named "The Deceiver" and "The Debt Collector?"
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Re: Five Iranian boats fire shots in the Persian Gulf

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Thu 14 May 2015, 18:14:46

...and it's the Caribbean sea, not the Persian Gulf. They just didn't make a political cartoon to fit May 2015.

When all ME oil is gone from the world's energy markets, what will you believe then. Will your political beliefs actually matter then?

...or will you be shivering in the dark with the rest of us?
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Re: Five Iranian boats fire shots in the Persian Gulf

Unread postby Simon_R » Fri 15 May 2015, 05:43:57

Six

presumably if you are against piracy on the open seas, you would allow the Iranian vessel to enter Yemen unhindered ?

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Re: Five Iranian boats fire shots in the Persian Gulf

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sat 16 May 2015, 12:11:18

Simon_R wrote:Six

presumably if you are against piracy on the open seas, you would allow the Iranian vessel to enter Yemen unhindered ?

Simon


I haven's seen any news reports of Iranian vessels shot at, in international waters.

Am I missing something, link it?
.
But listen man, I'm a bernie sanders supporter now, so I'm trying to evolve. Bear with me. The flag is the flag though, nobody can shoot at an American flagged ship in international waters and I don't care what we've done or what the reasons are -- anyone that shoots at a US flagged ship has to be hit back.

And more to the point, it's obvious what the difference is between Iranian weapons cargo and a Singapore container ship that probably has sneakers and plastic pumpkins on it.

Still -- link me the news article, when was an Iranian ship ever shot at, in international waters?
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Re: Five Iranian boats fire shots in the Persian Gulf

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Sat 16 May 2015, 12:31:09

Well there was that time an American missile cruiser shot down an Iranian airliner full of civilians over the Persian Gulf.
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Re: Five Iranian boats fire shots in the Persian Gulf

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sat 16 May 2015, 12:46:02

PrestonSturges wrote:Well there was that time an American missile cruiser shot down an Iranian airliner full of civilians over the Persian Gulf.


I don't see how that excuses firing serious shots on a Singapore flagged cargo container ship, in international waters.

I thought we were making a peace deal with Iran, about nukes, so why are they doing this. It's not helpful, to say the least.

If there's one thing that won't be allowed, in this world, then that's shutting down international shipping lanes for cargo container ships and oil tankers.

If they're looking for a war then that's a sure way to find one. Come to think of it, that's pretty much how all the big wars start, at sea -- someone starts shooting / hijacking / sinking foreign flagged merchant ships in international waters.
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Re: Five Iranian boats fire shots in the Persian Gulf

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sat 16 May 2015, 12:53:34

Iran is hijacking massive container vessels, and chasing / attempting to disable and firing on a Singapore ship and here's old John Kerry:



I don't want to get kicked out of the Sanders tent. :(

But you know, I didn't vote John Kerry president because I felt he was weak -- so now he's just in charge of foreign policy. Funny how that worked out.
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Re: Five Iranian boats fire shots in the Persian Gulf

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sat 16 May 2015, 13:04:37

Some more detail.

Iran says the same ship had collided with an Iranian oil platform in the past. So I guess this was retaliation.

The owners of the Singapore-flagged ship said they have been working to compensate Iran for the damage, but sanctions make that difficult, though they have gotten clearances to make the payments:

London — A Singapore-flagged oil products tanker fired at by Iranian craft on Thursday had previously collided with an Iranian oil drilling platform in March and efforts have since been made to resolve the issue, the owner said on Friday.

The Alpine Eternity was attacked by a number of small craft in international waters off the UAE in the latest escalation in the region.

The owner, South Maritime Pte Ltd, and manager, Transpetrol TM, said in a joint statement that the tanker collided with an uncharted object on March 21 in the Arabian Gulf, which was later identified as an Iranian jacket platform. No one was injured and no pollution was spilled.

The statement said in ordinary circumstances insurers would be able to post security on behalf of the owner, but Western sanctions imposed on Iran, including banking measures, had made this difficult.

“This has been discussed in full with the Iranian counterparts,” the statement added. “The owners, managers and the liability insurers are committed to resolving these issues once all necessary clearances have been obtained from the appropriate authorities in the UK and USA.”
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/kt-article-display-1.asp?xfile=data/middleeast/2015/May/middleeast_May171.xml&section=middleeast


Okay, well that's some kind of explanation. But what about the Marshal Islands container ship that was seized, then let go. Iran said that company owed them money.

Look folks -- we don't live in the wild west, people can't be shooting up ships and hijacking in international waters, there's never an excuse for that.

If that's how Iran does things, and will continue to do things, then are we sure we really want to lift the sanctions and make them richer and more powerful? And then maybe they have a real navy after, and not just inflatable boats?
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Re: Five Iranian boats fire shots in the Persian Gulf

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 16 May 2015, 20:56:59

From an industry source, some more info.

http://gcaptain.com/tanker-attacked-by- ... -platform/

LONDON, May 15 (Reuters) – A Singapore-flagged oil products tanker fired at by Iranian craft on Thursday had previously collided with an Iranian oil drilling platform in March and efforts have since been made to resolve the issue, the owner said on Friday.

The Alpine Eternity was attacked by a number of small craft in international waters off the United Arab Emirates in the latest escalation in the region.

The owner, South Maritime Pte Ltd, and manager, Transpetrol TM, said in a joint statement that the tanker collided with an uncharted object on March 21 in the Middle East Gulf, which was later identified as an Iranian jacket platform. No one was injured and no pollution was spilled.

“Since the March 21 incident, there has been a continuous dialog between the owners/drilling contractor of the offshore structure, and representatives of the vessel and their liability insurers,” they said in the statement.

“Owners and managers can see no reason why the Iranian authorities should try to seize the vessel, given the advanced state of negotiations and ongoing dialog with the Iranian counterparts.”

Last week, Iran released a Marshall Islands-flagged container ship, Maersk Tigris, and its crew, which were seized in the Strait of Hormuz over a years-old debt. This prompted the United States to send vessels to temporarily accompany U.S.-flagged ships through the strait. Iranian patrol boats had shadowed a separate container ship earlier last month.

The Alpine Eternity was anchored off Dubai on Friday after managing to reach United Arab Emirates waters on Thursday with its crew safe. The ship’s master had ignored a call to stop by the Iranian boats.

The statement said in ordinary circumstances insurers would be able to post security on behalf of the owner, but Western sanctions imposed on Iran, including banking measures, had made this difficult.

“This has been discussed in full with the Iranian counterparts,” the statement added. “The owners, managers and the liability insurers are committed to resolving these issues once all necessary clearances have been obtained from the appropriate authorities in the UK and USA.”

The statement said an underwater survey of damage to the jacket had been carried out with discussions “on-going in good faith for full surveys to take place, after which the scope of repair/replacement options will be clearer.”

The Maritime and Port Authority of Singapore said on Friday that no Singaporeans were aboard the Alpine Eternity, adding that it was “investigating the matter.”

DEEP CONCERN

Millions of barrels of oil are transported daily through the Bab el-Mandeb and Strait of Hormuz to Europe, the United States and Asia, waterways which pass along the coasts of Yemen and Iran respectively.

“In a month when there have been increased incidents involving ships transiting this area, we are deeply concerned to see another incident,” an official with oil tanker association INTERTANKO told Reuters. “We are looking for more information about this latest event.”

Shipping sources said they were bracing for more tensions at sea, which could lead to a spike in shipping costs.

“For crude, bulk carriers, there is little option but to continue to sail through the Strait (of Hormuz),” said Andy Lane at shipping specialist CTI Consultancy.

Washington on Thursday acknowledged concern about Iran’s conduct. The Pentagon did not rule out again ordering U.S. warships to accompany commercial vessels passing through the Strait of Hormuz, as it did after the last incident.

The latest episode in the Gulf coincided with mounting concern over an Iranian cargo ship headed to Yemen. A Saudi Arabia-led coalition has imposed inspections on all ships to stop weapons supplies reaching the Iran-allied Houthi rebels, which control most of the country.

The Iran Shahed cargo ship was sailing past the coast of Oman on Friday bound for the Red Sea Yemeni port of Hodaida, which it was estimated to reach on May 20, ship tracking data on Reuters showed. (Additional reporting by Keith Wallis in Singapore, Editing by David Goodman and Dominic Evans, Larry King)

- See more at: http://gcaptain.com/tanker-attacked-by- ... 1dRHW.dpuf
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Re: Five Iranian boats fire shots in the Persian Gulf

Unread postby Simon_R » Mon 18 May 2015, 08:30:15

Hi Six

Sorry I could not get back to you before now.

I dont believe anyone has yet fired on an iranian ship, it was a hypothetical question.

however you said

And more to the point, it's obvious what the difference is between Iranian weapons cargo and a Singapore container ship that probably has sneakers and plastic pumpkins on it.


Why should one country have the right to stop another country delivering whatever it wants (The US and France are both massive arms dealers)
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