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Don't Sell Your Coat by Harold Ambler

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Don't Sell Your Coat by Harold Ambler

Unread postby Rune » Sat 02 Nov 2013, 21:31:16

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Don`t Sell Your Coat Yet by Harold Ambler

Global warming is a household phrase these days, and it has led to a situation in which far too many educated people believe that mankind is hastening the destruction of the world through the emission of carbon dioxide. But where is the evidence to support these claims? In this impossible-to-put-down book Harold Ambler presents the history of climate in ways that are accessible to the average Joe or Jill and which make it clear that in terms of temperature, weather, and climate we have been here before. Without compromising on scientific detail, Ambler spends each chapter focusing on a different facet of climate science including sunspots, tradewinds, computer modeling, and data collection. He also deftly connects political stakeholders in the global warming arena to various distortions of the science. This distillation of information gives the reader the ability to decide whether global warming is a tangible threat or a convenient propaganda tool.


A cogent and revealing review of climate change

Read this book and skip Michael Mann's recent prevarications The Hockey Stick and the Climate Wars: Dispatches from the Front Lines.

Some say fire, some say ice (thank you Robert Frost), but the ice fans have far more real science to back their claims.

Even in green-benighted Germany the seeds of doubt have recently arisen. Only currently available in German, "Die Kalte Sonne" (The Cold Sun) by Dr Sebastian Lüning and Prof. Fritz Vahrenholt covers a similar thesis.

Ambler uses logic, simple non-technical language and many examples to make his points, making this quite accessible to the non-mathematical yet thorough and convincing. Some reviewers have said this is a left-wing approach, but I find it more properly described as neutral. He makes the cogent point that true environmental causes and real concerns such as world hunger and mercury contamination have been consumed in the conflagration of the Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming propaganda crusade. Even the most conservative talking heads agree that the earth requires good stewardship. Spending billions on useless carbon credits to prevent a non-catastrophe that can't be prevented anyway is not good stewardship.

If you are a thorough CAGW believer, try this book to see how the other half lives. You won't be trashed or demonized and you might learn something. If you have a skeptical bent, read this book as a thorough basic review. I have read most of the basic points in other sources, but Ambler brings them together and puts them in context very well.

If the next decades bring an extended lessening of Solar Activity, I vote with Ambler that it should be called the "Eddy Minimum" after Jack Eddy. Read "Don't Sell Your Coat" to see why!


I'm about half-way through this one now. Written by a former proponent of global warming who really got into the weeds of the whole subject.

It's not some sort of republican-inspired tripe; it's pretty damn good.

As far as I am concerned, a few months ago, I started noticing articles and bits here and there about a decline in solar radiation and the absence of sunspots - which, respectable scientists say, leads to a cooling phase. I read something about the Sun's imminent reversal of magnetic polarity too which affects Earth's climate. I didn't know anything about this.

But I expect the articles and the Cooling vs Warming argument will be with us for a while. It seems like the debate ought to be settled one way or the other in the near future too - depending on what the weather does. It has already been 15 years since global temperatures have stopped rising - the so-called "global warming pause".

And this, of course, would be a hilarious situation given all the immense concern over global warming. But it would not be a hilarious situation for very long because cooling phases in Earth's climate tend to spoil the human party. Evaporation and precipitation decline, deserts expand, crops fail more often...

Cooling phases have dramatically affected human society. For example, near the end of the Roman Empire, a cooling phase caused great difficulty in crop production. The cooling didn't let up until the Renaissance.

It all has to do with the Sun and its cycles.

So I just wanted to read something credible, well-written, well-argued and non-partisan which teaches me something. And this book does that. I always appreciate references and a position backed up from good sources. It's entertainingly written too - which is a must for someone like me. I won't read a history, for example, if it is not engagingly written - even if the history is important in some way.

I don't have any strongly-felt opinion about either Global Warming or Global Cooling; I just noticed that this contrary view was out there and got curious about it. So, if I find any decent articles on The Great Global Cooling, I will post them here.

It's true that if you are a hardcore AGW nazi, you will get something out of this book. What is known about the Earth's ocean-atmosphere is very well-described.
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Re: The Great Global Cooling Thread

Unread postby rollin » Sat 02 Nov 2013, 21:45:20

I put this one on the shelf with aliens building the pyramids.
I can't wait until the author puts out a book on abiogenic oil and the end of peak oil. ROFL.
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Re: The Great Global Cooling Thread

Unread postby Rune » Sat 02 Nov 2013, 21:46:07

Forbes

To The Horror Of Global Warming Alarmists Global Cooling Is Here

The increase in global temperatures since the late 19th century just reflects the end of the Little Ice Age. The global temperature trends since then have followed not rising CO2 trends but the ocean temperature cycles of the Pacific Decadal Oscillation (PDO) and the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation (AMO). Every 20 to 30 years, the much colder water near the bottom of the oceans cycles up to the top, where it has a slight cooling effect on global temperatures until the sun warms that water. That warmed water then contributes to slightly warmer global temperatures, until the next churning cycle.

Those ocean temperature cycles, and the continued recovery from the Little Ice Age, are primarily why global temperatures rose from 1915 until 1945, when CO2 emissions were much lower than in recent years. The change to a cold ocean temperature cycle, primarily the PDO, is the main reason that global temperatures declined from 1945 until the late 1970s, despite the soaring CO2 emissions during that time from the postwar industrialization spreading across the globe.

The 20 to 30 year ocean temperature cycles turned back to warm from the late 1970s until the late 1990s, which is the primary reason that global temperatures warmed during this period. But that warming ended 15 years ago, and global temperatures have stopped increasing since then, if not actually cooled, even though global CO2 emissions have soared over this period. As The Economist magazine reported in March, “The world added roughly 100 billion tonnes of carbon to the atmosphere between 2000 and 2010. That is about a quarter of all the CO2 put there by humanity since 1750.” Yet, still no warming during that time. That is because the CO2 greenhouse effect is weak and marginal compared to natural causes of global temperature changes.

At first the current stall out of global warming was due to the ocean cycles turning back to cold. But something much more ominous has developed over this period. Sunspots run in 11 year short term cycles, with longer cyclical trends of 90 and even 200 years. The number of sunspots declined substantially in the last 11 year cycle, after flattening out over the previous 20 years. But in the current cycle, sunspot activity has collapsed. NASA’s Science News report for January 8, 2013 states,

“Indeed, the sun could be on the threshold of a mini-Maunder event right now. Ongoing Solar Cycle 24 [the current short term 11 year cycle] is the weakest in more than 50 years. Moreover, there is (controversial) evidence of a long-term weakening trend in the magnetic field strength of sunspots. Matt Penn and William Livingston of the National Solar Observatory predict that by the time Solar Cycle 25 arrives, magnetic fields on the sun will be so weak that few if any sunspots will be formed. Independent lines of research involving helioseismology and surface polar fields tend to support their conclusion.”

That is even more significant because NASA’s climate science has been controlled for years by global warming hysteric James Hansen, who recently announced his retirement.

But this same concern is increasingly being echoed worldwide. The Voice of Russia reported on April 22, 2013,

“Global warming which has been the subject of so many discussions in recent years, may give way to global cooling. According to scientists from the Pulkovo Observatory in St.Petersburg, solar activity is waning, so the average yearly temperature will begin to decline as well. Scientists from Britain and the US chime in saying that forecasts for global cooling are far from groundless.”

That report quoted Yuri Nagovitsyn of the Pulkovo Observatory saying, “Evidently, solar activity is on the decrease. The 11-year cycle doesn’t bring about considerable climate change – only 1-2%. The impact of the 200-year cycle is greater – up to 50%. In this respect, we could be in for a cooling period that lasts 200-250 years.” In other words, another Little Ice Age.


The information in this Forbes article is also described in Don't Sell Your Coat Yet.

You can google "global cooling" and find all kinds of stuff on the subject.
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Re: Don't Sell Your Coat by Harold Ambler

Unread postby Tanada » Sun 03 Nov 2013, 08:17:00

The 11 year and 100 year and 600 year sunspot cycles are all well known and studied phenomenon, there is a whole thread dedicated to sunspots and trying to figure out what happens next. Sadly for your theory the energy received by the Earth is only changed a tiny fraction by the sun spot cycle. I suggest you go to the Archives and read the whole thread from start to finish, or do some research on the influence of Sunspots on Surface temperatures.

say-goodbye-to-sunspots-t59527.html
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Re: Don't Sell Your Coat by Harold Ambler

Unread postby dorlomin » Sun 03 Nov 2013, 11:12:21

An English literature specialist writes a book promoted by someone who does not understand how orbital forcing works that claims to over turn conventional climate science. And all of this is popular in the worlds foremost science journal, Nature. No wait, not Nature, Forbes.

Call me..... skeptical. 8)
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Re: Don't Sell Your Coat by Harold Ambler

Unread postby dionisio » Sun 03 Nov 2013, 13:43:02

Forbes is not a scientific jounal. It has no credibility on an issue like this.
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Re: Don't Sell Your Coat by Harold Ambler

Unread postby John_A » Sun 03 Nov 2013, 14:03:47

dionisio wrote:Forbes is not a scientific jounal. It has no credibility on an issue like this.


If you are saying that non-experts shouldn't be taken seriously, that would depend on the quality of their references and thought. So Forbes might have as much chance of being right, or at least as right as those who predicted ever increasing temperatures and haven't been able to find them since the late-90's.
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Re: Don't Sell Your Coat by Harold Ambler

Unread postby dionisio » Sun 03 Nov 2013, 14:23:32

John_A wrote:
dionisio wrote:Forbes is not a scientific jounal. It has no credibility on an issue like this.


If you are saying that non-experts shouldn't be taken seriously, that would depend on the quality of their references and thought. So Forbes might have as much chance of being right, or at least as right as those who predicted ever increasing temperatures and haven't been able to find them since the late-90's.

Of course they have a chance at being right. If it turns out they are, they'll be
published in Science or Nature.
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Re: Don't Sell Your Coat by Harold Ambler

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 03 Nov 2013, 14:38:41

Tanada wrote:The 11 year and 100 year and 600 year sunspot cycles are all well known and studied phenomenon, there is a whole thread dedicated to sunspots and trying to figure out what happens next. Sadly for your theory the energy received by the Earth is only changed a tiny fraction by the sun spot cycle.


The link between solar activity and global climate isn't entirely understood. We do know that huge climate changes like ice ages occur synchronously with tiny decreases in solar activity due to the Milankovitch cycles. We also know that the sunspot minimum during the Maunder minimum corresponds to the Little Ice Age.

Its quite possible that small changes in solar insolation are magnified by feedback factors on the earth. For instance, some research indicates that the small changes in solar radiation due to sunspot minimums affect global cloud cover, which could produce a huge feedback effect.
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Re: Don't Sell Your Coat by Harold Ambler

Unread postby dorlomin » Sun 03 Nov 2013, 15:26:58

Plantagenet wrote:The link between solar activity and global climate isn't entirely understood. We do know that huge climate changes like ice ages occur synchronously with tiny decreases in solar activity due to the Milankovitch cycles. We also know that the sunspot minimum during the Maunder minimum corresponds to the Little Ice Age.

There was only a small over all change, but if you look at summer insolation (solar energy) at the high northern latitudes you get some big changes. The balance out by changes in the opposite directions in both winter and the southern hemisphere for their summer.

Why the northern hemisphere is so important is it has huge landmasses, Eurasia and America at high latitudes, this is a lot of ground for snow to lie on. So is very relfective so as you get this slow paced cooling in summers over the northern hemisphere (thousands of years), the snows and ice can lie slightly further south later in the spring. The later and the more southerly the snow lies the more sunshine it reflects. This is the very slow cooling that sparks a glaciation. More summer sunlight gets reflected and cools the region allowing the build up of glaciers on the highlands. Eventually Hudson Bay and the Baltic become permanently frozen and able to accumulate snow on top of the sea ice. This forms the basis for the icesheets.

Its not perfectly understood but we think we have the big parts of the story reasonably well understood.

The "Little Ice Age" had a few things happening at the same time. For a start we had reached near the low point of a Milankovitch cycle, that is were are furthest from the sun during northern hemisphere summer over the past couple of hundred years. Then there were three major volcanic eruptions that really affected climate, to have a big impact on climate a volcano has to be close to the equator and big enough to punch its sulphates into the stratosphere. We believe we had three of these close enough that the coolings over lapped and help push northern hemispheres summers to be cold and the snows and ice stay around longer in the spring. Milankovitch was saying we would get cool summers up here and volcanoes gave us a push.

The Little Ice Age in the Northern Hemisphere seems to have begun around 1275. Certainly The Great Famine happened around 1315, this is perhaps the biggest European famine ever (as a proportion of people killed), caused by bad weather.

The Maunder Minimum happens in the 1600s. It is very possible that it contributed to the low points of the LIA. But I personally suspect it was only one of several things happening that reinforced a cooling trend.
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Re: Don't Sell Your Coat by Harold Ambler

Unread postby Rune » Sun 03 Nov 2013, 16:07:30

Don't Sell Your Coat: Surprising Truthes About Climate Change
by Harold Ambler

Excerpt:

The idea that sunspot-related solar variability influences Earth’s environment is frequently attributed to an early nineteenth-century British astronomer by the name of William Herschel. His observation was that a relatively high number of sunspots correlated to larger wheat crops, and lower prices. Although his study was widely mocked, peer-reviewed research in the last decade has partly borne out his hunches. The European Space Agency named its new satellite observatory after Herschel in May 2009.

At the turn of the 20th century, another English astronomer, Edward Maunder, conducted a ground-breaking study of solar cycles. He was especially interested in periods of low sunspot activity, such as those that took place from 1420 to 1550 and from 1645 to 1715. Although completely ignored by his peers, Maunder’s work was eventually built upon in the 1970s by an American solar physicist by the name of Jack Eddy. Eddy studied solar cycles extensively himself, and matched carbon-dated temperature proxies with them, to good effect. It was Eddy who labeled the coldest period during the Little Ice Age the Maunder Minimum, and his work has been influential. NASA graphs of past sunspot cycles that include the Little Ice Age typically now show the Maunder Minimum.

NASA has been taking measurements of solar activity since the early 1970s, initially in preparation for a mission known as Skylab. The two leading reasons for the agency’s interest in solar science are: (a) the amount of radiation that astronauts are exposed to, which rises and falls with the solar cycle and (b) those who run telecommunications networks and power grids require advance warning of solar storming, which can bring down both kinds of systems. In the three decades since Skylab was put into space, curiosity about the Sun’s effect on climate here on Earth has evolved for many working at the agency. In 1990, James Hansen wrote that “comparisons of available data show that solar variability will not counteract greenhouse warming.” Conversely, in 2009, he wrote, “it is likely that the sun is an important factor in climate variability.” As Hansen moved toward this shift in perspective, a Russian space program scientist had come out swinging, boldly predicting that Hansen’s forecasted warming during the next half-century would simply not come to pass.

In a 2007 interview with the Russian news agency RIA Novosti, Habibullo Abdussamatov, the head of the solar science wing of the Russian space program, said that a grand solar maximum had recently ended and the consequences would be apparent soon. “Instead of professed global warming, the Earth will be facing a slow decrease in temperatures in 2012-2015,” he said. “The gradually falling amounts of solar energy, expected to reach their bottom level by 2040, will inevitably lead to a deep freeze around 2055-2060.” He stated that the recent uptick in global mean temperature “results not from the emission of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, but from an unusually high level of solar radiation and a lengthy – almost throughout the last century – growth in its intensity.” Abdussamatov was joined by several solar physicists in noting the high level of solar activity during the last several decades. Sami Solanki published a paper in 2004 entitled “Unusual activity of the Sun during recent decades compared to the previous 11,000 years.” In it, he argues that the Modern Maximum was the greatest period of solar activity during the Holocene, by a wide margin. For his part, Abdussamatov went on record that he thought conventional notions about global warming were mistaken: “[T]he common view that man’s industrial activity is a deciding factor in global warming has emerged from a misinterpretation of cause and effect relations.”  

Several features are worth mention: (1) The Maunder Minimum from 1645 to 1700, during which sunspots ceased to be visible on the Sun and temperatures on Earth were the lowest they had been since the last full-fledged ice age; (2) the Dalton Minimum from about 1790 until about 1830, during which temperatures on Earth fell again; and the high number of sunspots during the grand solar maximum of the middle to late twentieth century, when temperatures on Earth rose to their highest levels since the Medieval Warm Period. Over the past few decades, solar physics has drawn more researchers into its controversy-laden midst.

In the meantime, the peaks and valleys in historical solar activity, made decipherable through a combination of direct and indirect measurement, have all received names. For the quiet periods, they are: the Oort, which took place between 1040 and 1080; the Wolf, which took place between 1280 and 1350; the Spörer, which took place from 1420 to 1550; the Maunder, which took place from 1645 to 1715; and the Dalton, which took place from 1790 to 1820. The named periods of high activity are: the Medieval Maximum, from 1100 to 1250; and the Modern Maximum, which began in 1950 and ended in 2006. The Sun-Earth climate connection scientists avow that the named solar minima, starting with the Wolf and ending with the Dalton, were almost surely among the causes of the Little Ice Age. What Abdussamatov was claiming was that a repeat of the Maunder Minimum was upon us, with similar kinds of cooling in our immediate future.

Another factor that may have altered Hansen’s views was the development of theories about secondary solar effects, especially one by Henrik Svensmark. In a campaign to find the holy grail of climatology, something that could explain many of the ups and downs during the Holocene as well as over the course of deep geologic time, Svensmark had come up with a mechanism that included cosmic rays. Scientists who said that the Sun’s main output of energy was far too constant to explain significant climate variation on Earth were failing to take into account knock-on effects, specifically that cloud production was largely regulated by the Sun’s influence on cosmic rays, Svensmark and those in his camp have maintained that more clouds should produce cooler temperatures. Probably more significant in terms of convincing the doubters to at least pay lip service to the importance of solar variability, the Sun had begun to do what Abdussamatov had said it would, by entering a prolonged minimum, the deepest in at least a century.

Somewhat ironically, as the downturn in solar activity began, physicists at NASA (not the wing overseen by Hansen) were forecasting a period of intense solar activity. In March 2006, as the solar cycle began winding down, NASA, on behalf of its solar physicists, put out a somewhat breathless press release claiming that the coming cycle was going to be “a doozy.” The release focused on a National Center for Atmospheric Research scientist named Mausumi Dikpati who said that the high level of solar activity during the last half of the twentieth century was about to be built upon. “The next sunspot cycle will be 30 to 50 percent stronger than the previous one,” Dikpati said. Basing her prediction on something called the “solar dynamo” theory, in which a “conveyor belt” moving magnetic fields from the poles toward the Sun’s equator drives sunspot formation, Dikpati and her team also relied heavily on computer modeling. NASA’s own leading solar physicist David Hathaway, concurred with Dikpati that the coming cycle would be significant, predicting a number of sunspots among the highest ever seen. The only exception Hathaway took with Dikpati was on the timing. “History shows that big sunspot cycles ‘ramp up’ faster than small ones,” he said. The next two years were anything but kind to Hathaway and Dikpati, however, as the old cycle showed no sign of ending and the new cycle no sign of starting. In what some labeled punting, Hathaway reissued predictions every several months, but kept with his overall view that a strong cycle was on the way.

As U.S. and Russian space-program physicists took part in a tacit competition  to anticipate what the Sun would do in the coming decades, the Space Race of the 1950s and ’60s was arguably being played out anew. Unlike the first time, the competition was being held out of public view, with the countries’ best physicists, Hathaway, Hansen, and Abdussamatov among them, trading blows in academic journals. This time around, the terms of the debate were not rocket-booster fuel formulae, re-entry material construction, and orbital equations, but, rather, where the planet was headed climatologically. Jack Eddy, at the end of his life, was paying attention to the Sun’s doings. “We’re at a prolonged minimum now, of which there have been precedents,” he said in 2008, months before his passing. “Whether we’re going to go into one of these profound minima or not, we won’t know until we get there. It might make me famous if it happens, but I don’t see that we know that it will happen.” Eddy’s work has been cited by Abdussamatov, and indeed calls have been issued for the naming of the forthcoming minimum, should it be as prolonged as some anticipate, as the Eddy Minimum. It is a matter of some irony that a Russian scientist following his research to its logical conclusion appears to have greater intellectual freedom than most of his American counterparts, with the notable exception of Jack Eddy. 

In the United States, meanwhile, on the heels of Al Gore’s triumphant Academy Award for Best Documentary and Nobel Peace Prize, skeptical views on “climate change” were being belittled as fringe, corrupt, or worse. Despite centuries’ worth of research into the subject, talking about sunspots, and any putative effect on Earth’s climate, was clearly still a good way to raise eyebrows. In other words, a low-level Inquisition continued. NASA, as an example, found itself institutionally compelled to allude to the Sun-Earth climate connection and then to dismiss such talk as mumbo-jumbo, sometimes at the same press conference. As NASA scientists watched the pace of the transition between the outgoing and incoming solar cycles with increasingly nervous eyes, a December 2007 press release underlined expectations for a powerful new cycle: Many forecasters believe Solar Cycle 24 will be big and intense. Peaking in 2011 or 2012, the cycle to come could have significant impacts on telecommunications, air traffic, power grids and GPS systems. (And don’t forget the Northern Lights!) In this age of satellites and cell phones, the next solar cycle could make itself felt as never before. An implicit plea for continued funding could hardly be mistaken.

While James Hansen and his NASA climatology team depend for their high level of funding on the perception that manmade global warming is a threat to humanity’s continued existence, the agency’s solar physicists have less widely known threats upon which to pin their funding hopes. The two groups, meanwhile, stood to help each other, if they could convince Congress and the public, with their respective expertise, that only CO2 could have produced the recent warming. A Sun that was not on the verge of a major shift in activity was one stone in the foundation of the argument. Just over a year later, the agency’s jaunty tone had shifted to one that was more defensive about the now visibly lingering solar minimum. A new press release bore the headline “What’s Wrong with the Sun? (Nothing),” and was laced with reasons why the gap between sunspot cycles wasn’t unusual at all. “It does seem like it’s taking a long time, but I think we’re just forgetting how long a solar minimum can last,” Hathaway said. Past lengthy minima had taken place before, the press released explained, helpfully adding: “Most researchers weren’t even born then.”

NASA’s  reputation in general, and Hathaway’s in particular, meanwhile, were being harmed by the Sun’s failure to cooperate, and Abdussamatov was beginning to look increasingly prescient. As the minimum continued, with sunspots coming in fewer numbers and all other indices declining as well, a press conference in October 2008 in which Hathaway did not take part tried to correct the public perception that the entire agency had been caught flat-footed. The Ulysses space mission launched in 1990 had been collecting solar data, a team of NASA physicists explained, that corroborated the fact that the current solar minimum was the deepest of the satellite era, with the weakest solar wind during the past 50-plus years. Among the mission scientists participating in the news conference was Nancy Crooker, who said the following: The length and depth of the current minimum is fully within the norm of the last two hundred years, so it’s not unusual in that regard. But it is unique in the space age. We also know that the Sun entered an extended minimum during the second half of the 17th century, but that’s not likely to happen. Just yesterday, there was a significant sunspot emerging, and that’s a good sign that we’re moving into the next solar cycle. Agency anxiety that the solar influence on climate would be brought to light was discernible in Crooker’s every word, and yet, of the panel of five scientists speaking, she was the most open to discussing the Sun-Earth climate connection. The sunspot to which she referred did not prove to be any kind of ramp-up point, however, as solar activity returned to its previous low levels within days.   

Around the time of the press conference featuring his agency colleagues, Hathaway withdrew from the NASA Solar Cycle committee that he, until that point, had chaired. The discussions, he said, had grown “too hot.” Probably more significant, he moved away not only from his prediction of a strong Solar Cycle 24 but from the governing model of the Sun. “I have to admit that the last two months have been really disappointing,” he said. “I have become increasingly worried about the conveyor belt and its role in the sunspot cycle and in the prediction of sunspot cycles.” In June 2009, after several more NASA press releases observing that the new solar cycle had yet to pick up meaningful momentum, a new optimistic release was put forth: “Mystery of the Missing Sunspots, Solved?” The new theory was that a “solar jet-stream” had taken an extra year moving into position to start generating sunspots. Although the critical new research was not done by a NASA team, the agency was keen to announce that all was well. The lead researcher, Frank Hill, of the National Solar Observatory, was on top of the world. “It is exciting to see,” Hill said, “that just as this sluggish stream reaches the usual active latitude of twenty-two degrees, a year late, we finally begin to see new groups of sunspots emerging.” While spots were indeed beginning to show up with slightly greater frequency on the disk of the Sun, other major indices of solar activity remained low. Additionally, there was something curious about the new spots. They were vanishingly small, and unusually pale. The faint tones had been observed in increasing measure as long as fifteen years earlier by two other National Solar Observatory scientists, Matthew Penn and William Livingston. The two had attempted to get their observations of lower-contrast sunspots as well as analysis of  the risk of a forthcoming Maunder-like minimum published, but with only partial success.

Although the magazine Science had published several other of Livingston’s papers, it declined to in this case, citing the short period of observation (about one solar cycle and a half). The Astrophysical Journal did accept two papers on these subjects from the pair, the first in 2006 and the second in 2007. If Livingston and Penn’s observations are correct and the trend of lighter sunspots continues, and late developments in June 2011 suggested that they were correct, then sunspots will become invisible by the year 2022, if not sooner. The magnetic phenomena that produces them would still be taking place, and the spots would still be there, they just wouldn’t be detectable in the visible spectrum of light. This may be what happened during the Maunder Minimum, and signal a grand solar minimum. Unfortunately, unlike Abdussamatov, Livingston and Penn do not  have their president’s ear. 

Although Barack Obama indicated when he became president that he would “restore science to its rightful place” in American society, to those who take the unknowns of solar influence on Earth’s climate seriously, the opposite has been the case. The pain caused by the president’s complicity in the silencing of skeptics is palpable among plenty of researchers who think that carbon dioxide’s power has been grossly exaggerated. Meanwhile, the effort to quiet skeptics has been extended to several continents. Among the scientists outside the U.S. who are wringing their hands is the Norwegian physicist Pål Brekke. “We could be in for a surprise,” Brekke stated in 2007. “It’s possible that the Sun plays an even more central role in global warming than we have suspected. Anyone who claims that the debate is over and the conclusions are firm has a fundamentally unscientific approach to one of the most momentous issues of our time.” While the Sun is not the only player in determining atmospheric temperature, acknowledging the Sun’s partial role together with changes in land use and ocean cycles would be a good start for the leader of the free world.
   

Amazon Kindle lets you highlight as much as 10% of book. And I found it was the only way to copy/paste excerpts from books I read.

This book is very good. However, it is not scientifically thorough like The Neglected Sun is. If you really want to know your stuff, read that one. But if you want a more amusing, entertaining read, this is a good one.

I really had not known that the formal IPCC position on Sun-Earth Climate was that the Sun had minimal climatic effects. This sounds preposterous to me given the enormity of the Sun and the enormity of its internal dynamics. Intuitively, it would seem to me that the Sun would exert all kinds of cyclical climate patterns on the Earth, both directly and indirectly.

For example, one of the more interesting facts presented was the observation in the late 50's that an active Sun pushes cosmic rays away from the Earth. During low periods of solar activity, cosmic rays penetrate the earth's atmosphere and are now thought to have a significant effect on cloud formation.

Reading is good. You should all read. Even if the ideas are contrary.
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Re: Don't Sell Your Coat by Harold Ambler

Unread postby efarmer » Sun 03 Nov 2013, 16:24:36

I think the quality in predictive books like this has suffered because they need
to be sensational enough to attract readers regardless of whether the predicted
event manifests or not. So they are by nature, scary, or sensational, or very boring
because they are attempting to scare or sensationalize people much smarter than
me and I am left like a cow looking up at the moon.

I think we should offer a $1 Million USD prize for the person who accurately predicts
the end of the world for both the precise time, and, the exact methodology,
categories. The prize money will be held in escrow for one year after the actual
end of the world, so that we don't fall into the old rut of paying big money out,
and then finding out it was just really bleak and scary, and not the real deal yet.
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Re: Don't Sell Your Coat by Harold Ambler

Unread postby dorlomin » Sun 03 Nov 2013, 16:32:17

Rune wrote:Amazon Kindle lets you highlight as much as 10% of book. And I found it was the only way to copy/paste excerpts from books I read.

Please dont. If I wanted to read the book I would. You make threads odysseys of scrolling.

Focus more on the quality of your post than the quantity you can cut and paste.
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Re: Don't Sell Your Coat by Harold Ambler

Unread postby Rune » Sun 03 Nov 2013, 16:33:49

Well, jeez, this book is mostly talking about evidence from the past and applying it to the future.

As for sensationalism, there is plenty of that in the global warming realm. Christ! You can watch rants on YouTube that talk about Venus-like conditions appearing on Earth.

You know, I love Science and ideas and everything, but I can detect hype when I see it. And that mostly is my impetus, when learning about a subject like climate change, to look at both sides or many sides Of the argument. That means looking at contrary points-of-view and at least understanding them.

It doesn't really matter to me that much anyway, apart from general knowledge and reading enjoyment, but it sure is fun to see a challenge to the IPCC appear.
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Re: Don't Sell Your Coat by Harold Ambler

Unread postby Rune » Sun 03 Nov 2013, 16:34:58

dorlomin wrote:
Rune wrote:Amazon Kindle lets you highlight as much as 10% of book. And I found it was the only way to copy/paste excerpts from books I read.

Please dont. If I wanted to read the book I would. You make threads odysseys of scrolling.

Focus more on the quality of your post than the quantity you can cut and paste.


Eat crap and bark at the moon.
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Re: Don't Sell Your Coat by Harold Ambler

Unread postby dorlomin » Sun 03 Nov 2013, 16:35:58

efarmer wrote:I think the quality in predictive books like this has suffered because they need
to be sensational enough to attract readers regardless of whether the predicted
event manifests or not.

Hardly new. This sort of pop science has been chumming the waters with all kinds of psuedoscientific nonsense for decades. Rubbish about creationism, aliens and the pyramids, bermuda triangles and 'parapsychology' have been shifting millions of units for years, now climate change denialism has found it much easier to put together a science fiction novel for rubes like Rune, rather than put together coherent and consistent theories.
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Re: Don't Sell Your Coat by Harold Ambler

Unread postby dorlomin » Sun 03 Nov 2013, 16:40:14

Rune wrote:You know, I love Science and ideas and everything,

No, you love science fiction. Stories and wild idea about mystical forces.

You have not the faintest grasp of real science. I exposed your knowledge of climate as below that of our 14 year olds a couple of days ago.

The real science, the world of multivariant calculus, linear regressions and baysian statistics, that world is as foreign to you as Zulu.
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Re: Don't Sell Your Coat by Harold Ambler

Unread postby Subjectivist » Sun 03 Nov 2013, 16:53:06

Rune wrote:Well, jeez, this book is mostly talking about evidence from the past and applying it to the future.

As for sensationalism, there is plenty of that in the global warming realm. Christ! You can watch rants on YouTube that talk about Venus-like conditions appearing on Earth.

You know, I love Science and ideas and everything, but I can detect hype when I see it. And that mostly is my impetus, when learning about a subject like climate change, to look at both sides or many sides Of the argument. That means looking at contrary points-of-view and at least understanding them.

It doesn't really matter to me that much anyway, apart from general knowledge and reading enjoyment, but it sure is fun to see a challenge to the IPCC appear.


I recommend you read The Long Thaw by Dr. David Archer, he is an oceanographer and climate researcher who avoids the hype. I have it on my kindle, its a good read, easy to understand and the science is explained well.
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Re: Don't Sell Your Coat by Harold Ambler

Unread postby Rune » Sun 03 Nov 2013, 17:29:01

UN Climate Models Wrong - No Global Warming

(CNSNews.com) –  Global temperatures collected in five official databases confirm that there has been no statistically significant global warming for the past 17 years, according to Dr. John Christy, professor of atmospheric science and director of the Earth System Science Center at the University of Alabama Huntsville (UAH).

Christy's findings are contrary to predictions made by 73 computer models cited in the United Nation’s latest Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Fifth Assessment Report (5AR).Christy told CNSNews that he analyzed all 73 models used in the 5AR and not one accurately predicted that the Earth’s temperature would remain flat since Oct. 1, 1996.


It's become pretty clear to me that the Earth has been warmer than today in the recent past - within the last 12,000 years.

And, before that, in the Eemian, it was much warmer. Sea levels were much, much higher.

It's pretty clear to me that there have been longer and shorter cycles of warming and cooling in Earth's climater a variety of reasons, one of which is the amount of radiation Earth receives from the Sun.

And it is becoming clear to me that solar influences have been discounted as irrelevant in a ridiculous way. It's not surprising to see a surge of interest in Solar Cycles, when these computer models have failed so badly and so many dire predictions have failed to materialize.

There is certainly nothing wrong with reading books and being informed of current events like these.

When will the "global warming pause" resume? Maybe our computer models will tell us soon.
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Re: Don't Sell Your Coat by Harold Ambler

Unread postby dorlomin » Sun 03 Nov 2013, 18:00:14

Rune wrote:It's become pretty clear to me that the Earth has been warmer than today in the recent past - within the last 12,000 years.
You could have read that in just about any climate science text book, the reason has already been explained to you.

And, before that, in the Eemian, it was much warmer. Sea levels were much, much higher.
This has been explained to you. Mr 'I love science'.

It's pretty clear to me that there have been longer and shorter cycles of warming and cooling in Earth's climater a variety of reasons, one of which is the amount of radiation Earth receives from the Sun.
Still dont understand Milankovitch.

And it is becoming clear to me that solar influences have been discounted as irrelevant in a ridiculous way.
An assertion based on your genius, nothing more.

There is certainly nothing wrong with reading books
Yes dear. Rubbish like von Danikien, nothing wrong with that, so long as they cast a good yarn.

When will the "global warming pause" resume? Maybe our computer models will tell us soon.
When you can master the explanation that has been widely distributed, then come back to us.
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