Dominoes begin to fall - small Balkan sparks world conflict

[EnergyUnlimited]

This will facilitate establishing some kind of permanent emergency state in Europe.

Doubtful. The US doesn't have such a plan.

Btu

Russians will force US to embrace it.
Arming Serbian paramilitaries and openly hostile policy towards EU will ensure it.

[Tyler_JC]

You're ignoring the key fact of foreign policy.

What does the United States have to gain by screwing around in the Balkans?

What does Russia have to gain by alienating the European Union?

[btu2012]

Russians will force US to embrace it. Arming Serbian paramilitaries and openly hostile policy towards EU will ensure it.

You seem to operate on the principle that anything bad for the EU must happen by default. Why do you hate the EU so much ?

Btu

[btu2012]

What does the United States have to gain by screwing around in the Balkans?

The US and EU want to include the Balkans into NATO and the European Union. Their methods might differ, but they agree on this policy -- which has strategic importance for both of them. There is a larger strategy of reducing and if possible eliminating Russian influence in the the Black Sea region. That's why you have the current movements in Ukraine, Georgia etc.

That area has great geostrategic importance, which is why the Russian Empire had an explicit expansionist policy in that region for the past 300 years. The EU and US want to undo this imperialist control. That makes sense for the security of Europe.

Incorporation of the Balkans, Ukraine, Georgia and possibly Belarus into the European system would markedly reduce Russia's ability to threaten and control Europe.

Russia is using its relationship with Serbia and Iran to block this plan.

Btu

[btu2012]

What does Russia have to gain by alienating the European Union?

Russia had an explicit policy of territorial expansion and imperialist control in Eastern Europe for the past 300 years. The Soviet Union continued this policy during the cold war (the "Eastern Block" was simply a buffer zone of Russian colonial dependencies). Imperialist plans going back to Peter the Great aim squarely at control and possibly territorial annexation of all of Europe (including Western Europe).

Since the EU's attempt to co-opt and democratize Russia has obviously failed, most analysts agree that Russia is likely to be the main danger for EU security in the medium term. Peak oil is likely to increase Russia's power in this regard.

Btu

Czarist Russia is often not even mentioned as one of the great imperialist powers of Europe. The difference is that British, French, and German imperialists founded overseas empires, while the Czars simply began annexing adjacent lands. Its wars in Europe with Sweden, the Ottoman Empire, and Poland gave the Czars relatively little - but densely populated - territory. The centuries-long war against bordering indigenous peoples gave the Czars few new subjects, but an enormous land area stretching all of the way to Alaska.

Russia's conquest of the primitive peoples of Siberia and Asia was in many ways similar to the Indian wars of the United States. Siberian tribes of Ostiaks, Samoeds, Nenets, Tungus, Mongols, Iakuts, Iukagirs, Chukchis, Koriats, and Kamchadals all fell under Russian domination. Russian rule was frequently brutal, and deadly. To take but one example, out of about 30,000 native Aleuts who lived in Alaska prior to Russian conquest, a scant 3,000 remained when Alaska was sold to the United States in 1867.

The Czar's earliest conquests passed almost unnoticed: the Ukrainians and so-called "White Russians" (not to be confused with the pro-czarist forces during the Russian Civil War), although under Russian domination for centuries, were distinct ethnicities who struggled fiercely to retain their culture and way of life. Further west, Poles, Balts, Finns, and numerous other peoples fell under Russian rule. Poland and Finland both enjoyed considerable autonomy, but even light-handed Russian administration seemed harsh to peoples unaccustomed to it. During the 1800's, other small nations were forced to submit: Georgians, Chechens, Armenians, and numerous others. Mongolia and northern areas of China were added to the Czars' impressive portfolio of conquests.

Russian imperialism was already a difficult burden for subject peoples to bear, but it became worse whenever the urge to "Russify" them caught the Czar's ear. Particularly under the rule of Alexander III, minorities within the Russian Empire found that their native language and religion were under official attack. Poles, Jews, Finns, Muslims and other groups found their religions persecuted, their schools forced to teach solely in Russian, their marriages denied legal recognition, and worse. Jews in particular suffered from official economic discrimination and semi- official violence known as pogroms.

Perhaps the most dangerous aspect of Great Russian nationalism was the ideology of Pan-Slavism. Russophile thinkers often argued that all of the Slavic peoples ought to live under the rule of the Czar, and become assimilated to Russian culture and religion. Pan-Slavism provided a recurring impetus for war with Turkey and Austria-Hungary, both of which contained large Slavic minorities. (It should give one pause to realize that in 1945, Stalin's conquests essentially completed the Pan-Slavists' programs).

The great irony of history is that Russian imperialism was often overlooked simply because Russians did not have to board ships to conquer Asia. Russian imperialism was on par with, and often far worse than, British or French imperialism. Even the collapse of the Soviet Union has left a substantial portion of the Russian Empire intact, for while many subject peoples won their independence, others - such as the Chechens - still live under Russian domination.

Source:

http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economic ... m/czar.htm

[Cid_Yama]

<b>Russia Threatens War Over Kosovo</b>

The international split over Kosovo grew more ominous yesterday as Russia raised the spectre of using force to back its Serb ally's bid to retain the territory.

Russia's envoy to NATO warned both the western military alliance, which has a 16,000-strong peacekeeping force in Kosovo, and the European Union against formally backing the ethnic-Albanian leadership's declaration of independence from Serbia.

"If the European Union works out a common position, or if NATO breaches its mandate in Kosovo, these organizations will be in conflict with the United Nations," said Dmitry Rogozin, alluding to Russia's position that a UN Security Council resolution on Kosovo does not authorize a unilateral move to independence.

"We too would then have to proceed from the view that in order to be respected, we must use brute force, in other words armed force."

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/02 ... index.html

"With Kosovo now the gun has been cocked and no one knows when and where the shot will ring out," said Anatoly Safonov, Putin's envoy for international cooperation in combating terrorism and organised crime, in an interview with the Russian news agency.

"The danger is of unleashing a powerful machine of destruction, the consequences of which are unpredictable. It's a pity they have forgotten the lessons of the past, including the lesson of Munich in 1938," he said.

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?from=rss ... 423C833405

[EnergyUnlimited]

You're ignoring the key fact of foreign policy.

What does the United States have to gain by screwing around in the Balkans?

Entangling EU in new cold war with Russia is current US objection.

What does Russia have to gain by alienating the European Union?

So what US and EU have gained by antagonizing Russia?
Russia's answers on Kosowo's independence were as predictable as Pavlow's dog reactions would be.
So what Western nations wanted to achieve by recognizing independence of Kosovo?
My bet is that they deliberately wanted to antagonize Russia and put existing international order into question.

BTW. Those who plant a wind will harvest a thunderstorm.

[EnergyUnlimited]

Imperialist plans going back to Peter the Great aim squarely at control and possibly territorial annexation of all of Europe (including Western Europe).

That is your conspiracy theory.

[EnergyUnlimited]

Russians will force US to embrace it. Arming Serbian paramilitaries and openly hostile policy towards EU will ensure it.

You seem to operate on the principle that anything bad for the EU must happen by default.

Again, you are confusing my estimations of future development with wishes.
My view is that EU is decadent, shortsighted organization incapable of handling medium term challenges and essentially ruled from Washington DC.
That means that EU is a pawn in US/Russia games.

Why do you hate the EU so much ?

Btu

You are confusing hate with recognition of facts.

[btu2012]

That is your conspiracy theory.

Where did you get your history education ? From Pravda ?

Btu

[eastbay]

Yeah... go back to Russia you commie.

btu

[btu2012]

EU sucks

Oh, boy. Another critique of "decadent EU".
Btu

[btu2012]

Looks like Eastbay ran out of quotes from the little red book. Not again.

[EnergyUnlimited]

That is your conspiracy theory.

Where did you get your history education ? From Pravda ?

Btu

Why are you interested in it?

I think your one was rescued out of closet.

[btu2012]

I think your one was rescued out of closet.

You seem to know a lot about toilet histories.

Btu

[eastbay]

The Little Red Book. I carried it around for years as a kid. Still have it in the safe.

Here's one:

'Direct experience is the best teacher'

There is so much true ageless wisdom to be found in Mao's Little Red Book. I have a pristine copy in English including an introduction by Lin. It's quite rare. I've read it and memorized quite a few selections.

Wanna read some more?

[EnergyUnlimited]

I think your one was rescued out of closet.

You seem to know a lot about toilet histories.

Btu

Toilet historeis?
Is that a space-time area of your PhD dissertations?

[eastbay]

Is that a space-time area of your PhD dissertations?

lol...

[btu2012]

Those who plant a wind will harvest a thunderstorm.

Such an appropriate quotation when applied to Russia's planting of wind for the past 300 years.

Btu

[btu2012]

It seems that Eastbay again has nothing to say. Truth hurts, huh ?

It's OK baby. You can always console yourself with the wisdom of Mao the Dung.

Btu