Documentary: "What a Way to Go: Life at the End of Empire"

[cipi604]

saw it 1 year ago. it's a good one

[Armageddon]

I am enjoying it so far. I have watched 3 so far and maybe another couple tonight, then the rest tomorrow.

[gandolf]

I have just watched all 13. I now realise that there is no solution that we can implement.

We will need nature to solve the problem and that will not be pretty.

Already 10,000 kids die of starvation each day in africa and that dosent even make the news. Well I feel it is going to get a whole lot worse.

I just hope there are enogh left to bury the dead

[ReverseEngineer]

Already 10,000 kids die of starvation each day in africa and that dosent even make the news. Well I feel it is going to get a whole lot worse.

I just hope there are enogh left to bury the dead

These are the kid of stats that convince me the Die Off is already underway and that in truth the Planet will never reach 9B people, or really even surpass 7B.

I cannot see in any logical fashion that someone could defend the idea the population of the Planet is INFLATING anymore while the Economy is DEFLATING. The economy just represents what is happening with the people, and its in fact a trailing indicator not a leading one.

Africa will not be getting Food Aid from the US next year, heck its even questionable whether AMERICANS will get Food Aid from America next year. Nobody lives too long with a scarcity of food or the money to buy it of course.

The MSM doesn't report on the Die Off really, rather instead you get warning of further population increases. This is a revers psychology mechanism to convince people we are doing OK, must be if the popualtion keeps increasing, right?

I don't think it is, not anymore. You will have to wait years for any real stats to come out, if they ever do, but IMHO the Year 2008 will be marked as the Year the Great Die Off began on the Planet Earth.

Reverse Engineer

[gandolf]

The thing I find really obscene is that in Australia the government pays a $7,000 baby bonus for every baby born (No restrictions at all). This is to encourage population growth.

Australia has a population of only 21 million in an area the size of America.

The problem is that now all the drop kicks of society are having more kids to get more beer and smoke money. These people will not add to the community well being and in fact will be a drain on it in years to come (Prison's cost money).

People have no Idea what is comming and we are being lead to our own destruction by the people we elect to represent us...

[Madpaddy]

I don't know gandolf,

You may need all those babies in 15 or 16 years to fight off the Indonesians.

[MrMambo]

Watched it. A personal perspective on the human condition. His analysis of the current failed path we are on is pretyy good. But I don't agree with all the parts of his analasys.

He sort of disregards the good results and potential of complex society, science and technology, and dismisses science and technology as tools that could be employed to put us in balance with nature.

He doesn't like in the happy chapters, where smart people tell us that there are ways we can get out of the hole we have dug.
Instead he opts for go for a romantic spiritual relationship with nature, he has presented this vision in an artistic audio visual presentation created with digital cameras, computer edited, presented on youtube, where viewers log on to the largest machine buildt by humans, the internet.

The knowledge of the thinkers and writers he has interviewed in this fossile fuled powed traintrip around the country, he has gotten through industrial produced magazines, television and the internet.

I think the creator of this movie has deviced his own personal romantic fantasy to be trapped in and that doesn't necessaraly lead to a better condition for humans. Many animals are capable of using technology. You can see chimps using tools in the natural world. Most species engage in some sort of manipulation of their natural environment. Humans differ in the extent of our ability to quickly change the way we interact with our nature. We can build new tools and new cultural patterns of behaviour that leeds to new outcomes for both ourselves and our environment.

If we disregard the current level of scientific understanding of our own predicament and hope that we by doing this will end "the empire" of civilization by returning to some permanent romantic hunter gatherer state we don't understand the nature of nature, wich is always changing evolving and making new innovations and adaptions.

Because if we do go that romantic vision either by choice or by catastrophic breakdown and become hunter gatherers and loose our complex culture and scientific knowledge, we will fragment into different tribes, governed by all sort of mystical spritual nonsensical beliefs, and some day one or more tribe is bound to rediscover agriculture and start recreating modern civilization. And we will once more face most of the same predicament we are in to day, even though oil, coal, gass and mineral resources will not be as easy to extract.

Modern society, science and technology and aspects of our hunter gatherer nature brought us were we are. We are in deep shit. But we should really not dismiss the fact that we could help ourselves and the planet by thinking in rational scientific ways about the nature of our problems and acting in rational scientifically based ways to get to a sustainable way of life.

I'm not prepared to go on a path where our great grandchildren doesn not have access to modern medicine and can not learn the science of genomics, astromomy, electronics, and instead learn that the moon and the sun is a mystical being or god, and that a disease are caused by bad spirits.

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

what a freaking waste of time!

[mos6507]

279 views in 9 days. Too bad. I'm now on #3 and it's pretty bleak. Not bad!

You hadn't already seen it? It's mandatory viewing for doomers.

[mos6507]

what a freaking waste of time!

Care to explain WHY you felt it was a waste of your time?

[mos6507]

I think the creator of this movie has deviced his own personal romantic fantasy to be trapped in and that doesn't necessaraly lead to a better condition for humans.

This movie is really only good for describing the problems humanity faces and illustrating the psychological burden it places on doomers. On that level, I think it does a better job than 11th Hour and Inconvenient Truth and any other "we're f*cked" documentary combined. (When I decide to finally 'come out' to my mom and dad, I am going to have them watch this movie. Unfortunately, with oil so cheap right now, it will lose some of its impact.)

It falls down when it tries to write out a prescription for humanity, because that's where there is so much disagreement, even within the doomers themselves.

The only thing I took away from this as far as personal advice was to decide where you want to make your last stand and have the courage to stay put. So that's what's motivated me to move back to the east coast, and to put so much importance in my property search, because I do not want to be one of the wandering refugees when TSHTF who are deluded into thinking sanctuary is around the next corner. I want to decide where I belong, shore up a community, and defend it to the end.

[Ludi]

You hadn't already seen it? It's mandatory viewing for doomers.

I'm pretty darn doomeristic and I haven't seen it, nor do I intend to. I get all the doom I need right here on po.com!

[mos6507]

I'm pretty darn doomeristic and I haven't seen it, nor do I intend to. I get all the doom I need right here on po.com!

It's really more for showing others, but I really did gain some comfort in watching it to see my doom anxieties expressed in such a clear and oftentimes poetic way. If he hadn't made this movie, I probably would have.

[Narz]

Watched it. A personal perspective on the human condition. His analysis of the current failed path we are on is pretyy good. But I don't agree with all the parts of his analasys.

He sort of disregards the good results and potential of complex society, science and technology, and dismisses science and technology as tools that could be employed to put us in balance with nature.

He doesn't like in the happy chapters, where smart people tell us that there are ways we can get out of the hole we have dug.
Instead he opts for go for a romantic spiritual relationship with nature, he has presented this vision in an artistic audio visual presentation created with digital cameras, computer edited, presented on youtube, where viewers log on to the largest machine buildt by humans, the internet.

The knowledge of the thinkers and writers he has interviewed in this fossile fuled powed traintrip around the country, he has gotten through industrial produced magazines, television and the internet.

I think the creator of this movie has deviced his own personal romantic fantasy to be trapped in and that doesn't necessaraly lead to a better condition for humans. Many animals are capable of using technology. You can see chimps using tools in the natural world. Most species engage in some sort of manipulation of their natural environment. Humans differ in the extent of our ability to quickly change the way we interact with our nature. We can build new tools and new cultural patterns of behaviour that leeds to new outcomes for both ourselves and our environment.

If we disregard the current level of scientific understanding of our own predicament and hope that we by doing this will end "the empire" of civilization by returning to some permanent romantic hunter gatherer state we don't understand the nature of nature, wich is always changing evolving and making new innovations and adaptions.

Because if we do go that romantic vision either by choice or by catastrophic breakdown and become hunter gatherers and loose our complex culture and scientific knowledge, we will fragment into different tribes, governed by all sort of mystical spritual nonsensical beliefs, and some day one or more tribe is bound to rediscover agriculture and start recreating modern civilization. And we will once more face most of the same predicament we are in to day, even though oil, coal, gass and mineral resources will not be as easy to extract.

Modern society, science and technology and aspects of our hunter gatherer nature brought us were we are. We are in deep crap. But we should really not dismiss the fact that we could help ourselves and the planet by thinking in rational scientific ways about the nature of our problems and acting in rational scientifically based ways to get to a sustainable way of life.

I'm not prepared to go on a path where our great grandchildren doesn not have access to modern medicine and can not learn the science of genomics, astromomy, electronics, and instead learn that the moon and the sun is a mystical being or god, and that a disease are caused by bad spirits.

Nice post.

The movie had some decent parts but could have been about 1/5th the length. The narrator was overly verbose (to say the least) and the final scene (monologue) drags on... and on... and on.

Props for the effort though, obviously a labor of love.

[Sixstrings]

Good documentary for the most part.

It gets a bit esoteric at times though. For example, the filmmaker suggests that the planet, plants and wildlife have rights in and of themselves.

"Human rights" are just that -- human. Nature is cruel and efficient, and the concept of "rights" exists only in the human mind.

The only use the natural world has is whatever use we have for it; whether that be asthetic pleasure (cute panda bears), food, or products.

It's a small point, but I'd prefer we not be so "new-agey" about the Earth. A clean and balanced environment is ideal because those things are good for us -- health wise, and asthetically. But please, let's spare ourselves the notion that evil humans are hurting good Mother Earth. The Earth really doesn't care, it would be just as happy if it looked like Venus or Mars.

I guess that's my only bone to pick with the tree-hugging "oh we are hurting the Earth" crowd. They seem to place a value on the natural world that is higher than the value of humankind. This leads to situations where people get far more worked up over dogs and cats suffering than their fellow man.

It's ok to love the natural world, just don't forget that people come first.

[ReverseEngineer]

It's ok to love the natural world, just don't forget that people come first.

Have to disagree with that.

How long does a person last if he is Homeless? Without good shelter and succor, Human Beings are weak shells that succumb to the elements rapidly.

Taking care of Mother Earth isn't about protecting Panda Bears. Its about making sure we have a Home to live in. You don't repair the roof of your house, eventually the water coming in undermines the whole thing. You put too many people living in the same house, they start to fight amongst each other.

You light fires willy nilly all around your house, you about GUARANTEE it will BURN DOWN. This is all of what we did. No infrastructure maintanance, overpopulation and burning fires everywhere to make more cars and more plastic toys.

Whether you want to anthropomorphize the Earth or not, the fact is that WE do not come first, the EARTH comes first. Without the Earth, we just got no place to live, we do NOT have access to a Stargate and we can't just walk off to another world.

It had to stop, and it IS stopping. Mother Earth is srtessed past the point not only of providing good habitat for Panda Bears, it doesn;t support the 6B Human Beings living on the surface all that well either, not in aggregate. It only seems OK to you because in your little location as of yet people aren't going hungry and living in squalor, but they are already and have been for many years elsewhere. Now it is coming to a Theatre Near You. For the basic reason that you put ahead of Mother Earth human greed, and the desire to live comfortably and easily. It ain;t gonna happen anymore, because the Oil that made it possible for a short time for a few people living on the surface of the Earth is now in too short supply.

Care about people all you want, but if you don't respect Mother Nature, she will come back and THUNDER down on you with her soldiers, she will march the Hurricanes into the GOM one by one until every last rig you built is down in Davey Jones Locker. NOBODY messes with Mother Nature and wins Sixstrings, and thinking Human Beings are above that is a major error. Its going to cost Billions of lives here pretty soon, and its all because there was not the respect given to this home we have, hurtling thru space as the Spaceship Earth with its Nuclear Fired fuel supply of the Sun it revolves about. Its the one and only home this incarnation of Humanity has, and we trashed it. Now we will pay the price for that.

Reverse Engineer

[Ludi]

the fact is that WE do not come first, the EARTH comes first. Without the Earth, we just got no place to live, we do NOT have access to a Stargate and we can't just walk off to another world.

100% agree.

[oowolf]

I had this last year and showed it to all who could sit through it, then donated to local library. It is a pretty good summation of just about everything discussed here over the years. However, as we well know, few of the brainwashed millions really want to escape the media-maintained "Wetico psychosis" that passes for human life.

note on "Wetico psychosis": Jack D. Forbes' masterwork "Columbus and Other Cannibals" is, at long last, back in print. It is a damning indictment of so-called Western Civilization, from one of the most eloquent Native American philosophers since Chief Seattle. This is another book that's definitely not for the timid.

[mos6507]

note on "Wetico psychosis": Jack D. Forbes' masterwork "Columbus and Other Cannibals" is, at long last, back in print. It is a damning indictment of so-called Western Civilization, from one of the most eloquent Native American philosophers since Chief Seattle. This is another book that's definitely not for the timid.

Here is an important point. When someone gets right in your face and makes a rage-filled rant against an entire race/group/ideology, people tend to get into fight or flight syndrome. They'll dig their heels in and defend the group they belong to simply because you're attacking. This is the main reason why I tend to kick dirt in the faces of some of the more radical members of this board. It's not that I disagree with the message all the time, but the presentation is so radical, so morally indignant, that it's really quite useless outside of the safe confines of the already-converted.

What a Way to Go tries to make the same kind of points, but it eeeases into them gently, starting from the vantagepoint of joe average who was born and bred into business as usual. That to me is worth a lot more than dozens of radical books that nobody would want to pick up unless they already agreed with the subjectmatter.

The only thing offputting about it is the title, since I think "empire" by definition is an emotionally loaded term, for obvious reasons.



We need fewer "damning indictments" and more reasoned appeals for change.

[misterno]

How come the video is no longer available in youtube?