[Waterthrush]

I just saw it today. Very impressive, very convincing. Those graphs that just lead up and up .... We have to do our part. The ending credits, where they (literally) spell out some measures we can take - they aren't anything outlandish. They are the same steps we need to take to deal with Peak Oil.

Gore was impassioned but soft spoken. I was particularly impressed when he says he continually tries to upgrade the slide show by including any new objections he hears raised. He has listened to his detractors and has answered them.

Sooner than we think, the majority of the rest of the world will start asking questions like why we think we in the US are privileged to burn fossil fuels at the rate we are doing. The past six years have significantly weakened the US, so we will not have much power to resist the demands to reduce our consumption that I believe will be coming down the road to us.

[rwwff]

The past six years have significantly weakened the US, so we will not have much power to resist the demands to reduce our consumption that I believe will be coming down the road to us.

You're doing the wishful thinking thing here. If anything, the US is much more lethal and powerful than we have ever been. Our navy is more lethal, our army and air forces are prepositioned and fully supplied, and they all have excellent training and extensive experience in the field.

Welcome to the American Empire.

[Waterthrush]

Rwwff, I have to disagree. I've read numerous articles about how quickly the US equipment in Iraq is deteriorating and how there are in fact shortages of various sorts there. We know that most of the National Guard equipment in areas hit by Katrina had been removed to Iraq. We know that much of the skilled manpower is all going to private contractors.

These articles are backed up by observations of other powers: Bush really doesn't intimidate anybody anymore. Russia has completely outplayed the US in Asia, China in Africa.

And by observations of the Bush administration as well: I read that the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs basically told Bush we don't have the power to do much about Iran.

I repeat, the past six years have significantly weakened the US. We are seeing this in the behavior of other states, we are seeing it in the failure to maintain our victory in Afghanistan (my goodness, that one is hard to believe).

And I predict that we will see more consequences of these six years of growing weakness in the next two - the consequences are rolling in now and will continue. I expect to see higher and higher level denunciations of US consumption levels of fossil fuels.

[rwwff]

I repeat, the past six years have significantly weakened the US. We are seeing this in the behavior of other states, we are seeing it in the failure to maintain our victory in Afghanistan (my goodness, that one is hard to believe).

And I repeat my disagreement with that assessment.

And on Afganistan.. Exactly what did you think victory would look like???? You weren't under the mistaken impression that all these tribal groups would just buddy up and make nice. Let me know when Bagram air base is overrun by afgan bandits. Till then, it looks to me like victory.

I expect to see higher and higher level denunciations of US consumption levels of fossil fuels.

More politicians dribbling off at the mouth. Please don't tell me that you think politicians in other countries are more forthright.

When OPEC countries outlaw the use of the dollar, I might change my opinion, till then, its just more running off at the mouth.

[Revi]

The US is all about hard power now. Soft power and diplomacy are the way to go. Walk softly and carry a big stick. We are not playing with the rest of the world, so we run the risk of being cut out of it. Do you think the world is going to continue to give us 15 million barrels a day once they have to cut their own consumption? If the Chinese are willing to pay full price for it, and we are handing them our worthless scrip? Petrodollar recycling will hold us up for only a few more years. Then it's a very reduced lifestyle for us. What amazed me about Gore's talk is how far behind the rest of the world we are getting. Our cars are gas hogs and we have almost no solar nor wind happening. What are we thinking? Is there even a plan to get us beyond fossil fuel?

[Lore]

Rwwff, I have to disagree. I've read numerous articles about how quickly the US equipment in Iraq is deteriorating and how there are in fact shortages of various sorts there. We know that most of the National Guard equipment in areas hit by Katrina had been removed to Iraq. We know that much of the skilled manpower is all going to private contractors.

These articles are backed up by observations of other powers: Bush really doesn't intimidate anybody anymore. Russia has completely outplayed the US in Asia, China in Africa.

And by observations of the Bush administration as well: I read that the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs basically told Bush we don't have the power to do much about Iran.

I repeat, the past six years have significantly weakened the US. We are seeing this in the behavior of other states, we are seeing it in the failure to maintain our victory in Afghanistan (my goodness, that one is hard to believe).

And I predict that we will see more consequences of these six years of growing weakness in the next two - the consequences are rolling in now and will continue. I expect to see higher and higher level denunciations of US consumption levels of fossil fuels.

I have to agree, we have really over extended ourselves. Kind of reminds you of the former USSR.

The guerrilla fights the war of the flea, and his military enemy suffers the dog's disadvantages: too much to defend; too small, ubiquitous, and agile an enemy to come to grips with.
--Robert Taber (1928- ), U.S. writer. From War of the Flea (1965).

[rwwff]

So far as I can tell, the arabs are still accepting dollars for oil, and we still have easy control of Bagram, and the [name] permanent Iraqi bases.

As far as using troops to maintain order in the US, I suppose they could, but thats part of the issue of realignment that Rumsfeld has been after. Homeland defense and security is a "tail" operation. The whole idea is to have national guard folks doing these tail ops, and the regular army dealing strictly with the teeth side of the scale. Whether Rumsfeld succeeds in making the change near irreversable remains to be seen; but we won't really know until squeeze time.

[Lore]

What amazed me about Gore's talk is how far behind the rest of the world we are getting. Our cars are gas hogs and we have almost no solar nor wind happening. What are we thinking? Is there even a plan to get us beyond fossil fuel?

Yeah, I caught that too, interesting how we came in dead last in the comparison of fuel economy and GHG emisssions stardards around the world.

[rogerhb]

...we still have easy control of Bagram, and the [name] permanent Iraqi bases.

Wow, you invaded two countries over three years ago and you still have control of a couple of airfields, that's impressive, guess that's mission accomplished then.

[rwwff]

...we still have easy control of Bagram, and the [name] permanent Iraqi bases.

Wow, you invaded two countries over three years ago and you still have control of a couple of airfields, that's impressive, guess that's mission accomplished then.

I don't know whether its impressive or not. But considering that is what the final objective was, I'm not sure whats to argue about concerning mission success. This strategy has given us at-will air domination of Iran, and until they can cook up a working nuke, they know they are absolutely helpless to do anything about it.

[rogerhb]

This strategy has given us at-will air domination of Iran, and until they can cook up a working nuke, they know they are absolutely helpless to do anything about it.

Iran doesn't look helpless from over here, Europe/China and Russia don't look keen for more military adventures, and you aren't going to like the oil price hike when a couple of supertankers go down.

[rwwff]

This strategy has given us at-will air domination of Iran, and until they can cook up a working nuke, they know they are absolutely helpless to do anything about it.

Iran doesn't look helpless from over here, Europe/China and Russia don't look keen for more military adventures, and you aren't going to like the oil price hike when a couple of supertankers go down.

Considering that most of Bush's and Cheney's buds draw royalty checks that are in large part dependent upon the price of oil... I think they might just throw a party if Iran sank a couple supertankers. So, yeah, all their threats are meaningless, we have military control, and can do as we wish.

Yall should like that too, since a serious price run up to $200 or so should be enough to greatly reduce CO2 emissions.

And we finally drag this tangent back to global warming!! Yeah!!!

[rogerhb]

Considering that most of Bush's and Cheney's buds draw royalty checks that are in large part dependent upon the price of oil.

So glad your interests are in Bush and Cheney's retirement arrangements rather than your own or anyone elses. Very noble.

[rwwff]

Considering that most of Bush's and Cheney's buds draw royalty checks that are in large part dependent upon the price of oil.

So glad your interests are in Bush and Cheney's retirement arrangements rather than your own or anyone elses. Very noble.

Noble or not, the lay of the land is as it is. No reason to pretend otherwise. The way I look at it, you can be behind the bulldozer, or in front of it. I don't see anything noble in being in front of the bulldozer.

[rogerhb]

The way I look at it, you can be behind the bulldozer, or in front of it. I don't see anything noble in being in front of the bulldozer.

Oh, but you are...

[rwwff]

The way I look at it, you can be behind the bulldozer, or in front of it. I don't see anything noble in being in front of the bulldozer.

Oh, but you are...

You don't know enough about any of the posters here in real life to be able to decide who's in front and who's not.

But hey, if you want to be in front of the bulldozer, I can't stop you.

[Revi]

Bulldozers run on oil too.

[Lore]

Back on track....

Deep into the political right camp.... HUMAN EVENTS.com

Check out the depth of the argument!.. No facts, pure political hip shots.

LINK

[rogerhb]

You don't know enough about any of the posters here in real life to be able to decide who's in front and who's not.

I'll play the odds, if you're not in the top 1%, you're in front.

[Tuike]

The movie isn't shown at Finnish movie theaters, but I got my hands on the book version of the Inconvenient Truth. The matters about GW are displayed very clearly, with beautiful colour images. The text is straight to the point and in very easy to understand language, so you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out what's going on. In some pages Gore tells about himself but I found them boring and skipped them. I finished the book it in one evening. There isn't much to read as the book's pages are mostly covered by pictures and graphs. I liked it.