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Dempsey to Pentagon: Prepare For the Never-Ending War

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Dempsey to Pentagon: Prepare For the Never-Ending War

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sat 04 Jul 2015, 02:42:47

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Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen. Martin Dempsey

Dempsey to Pentagon: Prepare For the Never-Ending War

July 2, 2015 The U.S. military needs to reorganize itself and prepare for war that has no end in sight with militant groups, such as the Islamic State, and nations that use proxies to fight on their behalf, America's top general warned Wednesday.

In what is likely his last significant strategy direction before retiring this summer, Gen. Martin Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said at the Pentagon that "global disorder has trended upward while some of our comparative advantages have begun to erode," since 2011, the last update to the National Military Strategy.

"We are more likely to face prolonged campaigns than conflicts that are resolved quickly… that control of escalation is becoming more difficult and more important… and that as a hedge against unpredictability with reduced resources, we may have to adjust our global posture,” Dempsey writes in the new military strategy.

Dempsey, the president’s senior military advisor, criticizes Russia, Iran, North Korea, and China for aggressive military actions and warns that the rapidly changing global security environment might force the military to reorganize as it prepares for a busy future.

...

Non-state actors, including ISIS, are among the Pentagon’s top concerns, but so are hybrid wars in which nations such as Russia support militia forces fighting on their behalf in Eastern Ukraine threaten national security interests, Dempsey writes.

“Hybrid conflicts also may be comprised of state and non-state actors working together toward shared objectives, employing a wide range of weapons such as we have witnessed in eastern Ukraine,” Dempsey writes. “Hybrid conflicts serve to increase ambiguity, complicate decision-making, and slow the coordination of effective responses. Due to these advantages to the aggressor, it is likely that this form of conflict will persist well into the future.”

Dempsey also warns that the “probability of U.S. involvement in interstate war with a major power is … low but growing.”

“We must be able to rapidly adapt to new threats while maintaining comparative advantage over traditional ones. Success will increasingly depend on how well our military instrument can support the other instruments of power and enable our network of allies and partners,” Dempsey writes.

The strategy also calls for greater agility, innovation, and integration among military forces.

“[T]he 2015 strategy recognizes that success will increasingly depend on how well our military instrument supports the other instruments of national power and how it enables our network of allies and partners,” Dempsey said.

The military will continue its pivot to the Pacific, Dempsey writes, but its presence in Europe, the Middle East, Latin America, and Africa will evolve. The military must remain “globally engaged to shape the security environment,” he said.

The Russian campaign in Ukraine has military strategists questioning if traditional U.S. military force as it is deployed globally is still—or enough of—a deterrence to hybrid and non-state threats like today’s terrorism. “If deterrence fails, at any given time, our military will be capable of defeating a regional adversary in a large-scale, multi-phased campaign while denying the objectives of—or imposing unacceptable costs on—another aggressor in a different region,” Dempsey writes.

The chairman also criticizes Beijing’s “aggressive land reclamation efforts” in the South China Sea where it is building military bases in on disputed islands. In the same region, on North Korea, “In time, they will threaten the U.S. homeland,” Dempsey writes, and mentions Pyongyang’s alleged hack of Sony’s computer network.

Dempsey scolds Iran, which is in the midst of negotiating a deal with Washington to limit its nuclear program, for being a “state-sponsor of terrorism that has undermined stability in many nations, including Israel, Lebanon, Iraq, Syria, and Yemen.”

Russia, Iran, North Korea, and China, Dempsey writes, are not “believed to be seeking direct military conflict with the United States or our allies,” but the U.S. military needs to be prepared.

“They each pose serious security concerns which the international community is working to collectively address by way of common policies, shared messages, and coordinated action,” Dempsey said.
http://www.nationaljournal.com/defense/dempsey-urges-preparation-never-ending-war-before-retiring-20150702


So there ya go, that's the revised US military doctrine and assessment.

The way I see it -- we're basically in the 19th century, again. Dempsey's assessment is that China and Russia and Iran are not looking for conflict with the US, per se, but it's just that they are expanding and pushing out their territory and spheres of control in the world, and may bump into us.

Dempsey says the possibility of US military conflict with a major power remains low, but is "growing."

He correctly assesses the enormous strategic / tactical advantages of the new "hybrid war" strategy employed by Russia, and also Iran in the middle east.

So, that's the future folks, lots of "hybrid war" and "little green men."

It just is what it is. It's not so much that Putin is Hitler, maybe just Otto von Bismarck. It's 19th century stuff, like the great powers "scramble for Africa" and all that. Ideology doesn't really matter. There's no point shouting at Russians about democracy and freedom and rights -- this just is what it is, it's a RISK game board:

Image

It may as well be continental drift.

There's no other ideology to go "join," and get left alone -- it's not like we can just become communists and then Moscow and Beijing would be happy. They're still gonna push out and grab, and vie for leadership and control in the world, regardless.

So, anyhow.. given the new strategic reality and future of the world.. I'd say BOTH opinion sides are right. The pro-defense side, AND the anti-war people.

The US will have to be smart. Keep the powder dry. We can't jump into everything, anymore.

But neither does that mean drawing down defense -- it just means we have to be smart, sometimes "leading from behind" / having all these forces but not engaging them is actually the tactically smart thing to do.
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Re: Dempsey to Pentagon: Prepare For the Never-Ending War

Unread postby americandream » Sat 04 Jul 2015, 08:08:41

You considered a job advising NATO?
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Re: Dempsey to Pentagon: Prepare For the Never-Ending War

Unread postby Fishman » Sat 04 Jul 2015, 08:15:17

Well we're pretty much screwed for the near term " The US will have to be smart.(with Barky the incompetent lying president?)
Keep the powder dry. "(oooow, microagression folks)
We're basically like Israel now, surrounded by folks that want to destroy us. And for the clowns -America is the bad guy all the time- the countries of southeast Asia look on as China expands in their back yard.
Obama, the FUBAR presidency gets scraped off the boot
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Re: Dempsey to Pentagon: Prepare For the Never-Ending War

Unread postby Fishman » Sat 04 Jul 2015, 08:17:32

Six, you talk of military challenges yet have the socialist, rollover and surrender Sanders as your picture?
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Re: Dempsey to Pentagon: Prepare For the Never-Ending War

Unread postby Withnail » Sat 04 Jul 2015, 08:57:57

Fishman wrote:Well we're pretty much screwed for the near term " The US will have to be smart.(with Barky the incompetent lying president?)
Keep the powder dry. "(oooow, microagression folks)
We're basically like Israel now, surrounded by folks that want to destroy us. And for the clowns -America is the bad guy all the time- the countries of southeast Asia look on as China expands in their back yard.


South east Asia is China's back yard.

You'd better get used to that, or be ready for war with China.

And everyone knows you haven't got the balls for that.
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Re: Dempsey to Pentagon: Prepare For the Never-Ending War

Unread postby Paulo1 » Sat 04 Jul 2015, 09:10:44

Good post and thanks. Dempsey is very intelligent despite who he works for.

The bottom line, and what was left unsaid, is that US is a declining power much like Britain was, France, Spain, Portugal, and yes.....Rome. The list is endless and everchanging. US made it after Korea, it just unfolds very slow.

Get used to it, life goes on and is very good provided you keep your own house in order and financially solvent. If the US wanted to accomplish one productive thing about war, declare the war on drugs a mistake and view addictions as a social and medical malaise and treat accordingly. Just think, no market for poppies, or role for cartels. No money laundering except HMOs rushing in to fill the void.
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Re: Dempsey to Pentagon: Prepare For the Never-Ending War

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 04 Jul 2015, 09:43:32

How about a world-wide convention led by the UN or someone to declare a moratorium on military spending for anyone and everyone. All the major powers contributing real military forces to enforce this moratorium. A slow reduction in nuclear weapons by all. A commitment to seriously punish and make any country that uses force a pariah. An integrated and worldwide search for loose nuclear weapons grade material and similar potent weapons. Oh and serious discussions by all countries regarding common problems faced by all such as GW, ecological deterioration, financial reform, peak oil etc. I know it is pie in the sky, well maybe but that is what we SHOULD do.
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Re: Dempsey to Pentagon: Prepare For the Never-Ending War

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sat 04 Jul 2015, 11:40:47

Here's another summary of what Dempsey said:

Here are five important takeaways from Dempsey’s parting military strategy report:

* Violent extremist groups led by al Qaida and the self-proclaimed Islamic State are working to undermine trans-regional security, especially in the Middle East and North Africa. “Such groups are dedicated to radicalizing populations, spreading violence and leveraging terror to impose their visions of societal organization.” The U.S. military does not have the luxury of focusing on one challenge to the exclusion of others.

* The military will continue its pivot to the Pacific, but its presence in Europe, the Middle East, Latin America and Africa will evolve. The military must remain “globally engaged to shape the security environment.”

* The Russian campaign in Ukraine has military strategists questioning if traditional U.S. military force as it is deployed globally is still enough of deterrence to hybrid and non-state threats. Russia’s military actions are undermining regional security directly and through proxy forces. “If deterrence fails, at any given time, our military will be capable of defeating a regional adversary in a large-scale, multi-phased campaign while denying the objectives of – or imposing unacceptable costs on – another aggressor in a different region.”

* Iran -- which currently is negotiating a nuclear non-proliferation agreement with the U.S. and others – also poses strategic challenges to the international community. “It is pursuing nuclear and missile delivery technologies despite repeated United Nations Security Council resolutions demanding that it cease such efforts.” Moreover, Iran is a state-sponsor of terrorism that has undermined stability in many nations, including Israel, Lebanon, Syria and Yemen.

* Beijing is pursuing “aggressive land reclamation efforts” in the South China Sea where it is building military bases in on disputed islands. In the same region, on North Korea, “In time, they will threaten the U.S. homeland,” Dempsey wrote, mentioning Pyongyang’s alleged hack of Sony’s computer network.
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/07/03/Five-Scary-Takeaways-Dempsey-s-Final-Defense-Assessment


So far this is a good thread. A couple of you guys are usually on the left side of things, but you're being fair and not just jumping to counterpunch all anti-american thinking.

It's really just a realpolitik situation, like the 19th century.

So if you recognize that, then the question becomes -- are you for "containment," or can America just be a Canada and let whatever happen?

Thing is though, not even CANADA is a "Canada." Actually, *Canada* is one of those new rising powers of the future, flexing some muscles for the first time. The Russians actually say Canada is the biggest problem:


The world’s most anti-Russia country? Canada, says Moscow lawmaker

MOSCOW — America, you can rejoice, at least for a while, because the Kremlin has found a new object for its vitriol: Canada.

“It seems Canada is now the most anti-Russian state,” Pushkov said this week, urging the Duma to “elaborate a package of measures regarding Canada,” in comments carried by the Russian news service Interfax.


Pushkov spoke a day after Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper announced additional economic sanctions against 14 Russian entities and Crimea, plus a personal travel ban against three Russians.

Those moves, which would upset Russian authorities coming from anybody, appeared to strike Pushkov as especially uppity coming from Canada.

“The government of that country is trying to bolster its rather low profile in international affairs and the objective shortage of weight and authority through high activity in the field of the sanctions,” Pushkov said.

Ouch.

Apparently the bad blood has been boiling up for a while. In his excoriation of Canada, Pushkov recalled comments Harper made in early June about how Russia would never be allowed back in the Group of 7, a consortium of major economic powers that ejected Russia after it annexed Crimea last year.

Pushkov warned that Russia would respond to this ill-treatment and that Canada’s sanctions “will not pass unanswered.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/07/02/the-worlds-most-anti-russia-country-canada-says-moscow-lawmaker/
Last edited by Sixstrings on Sat 04 Jul 2015, 11:51:37, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Dempsey to Pentagon: Prepare For the Never-Ending War

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 04 Jul 2015, 11:43:21

That is why I say pie in the sky Pstarr, not gonna happen in the type of world we live in. Still maybe in a better fictitious world it WOULD happen.
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Re: Dempsey to Pentagon: Prepare For the Never-Ending War

Unread postby efarmer » Sat 04 Jul 2015, 12:45:04

President / General Eisenhower saw the situation with the clear eyes of someone who commanded the carnage in WWII in Europe. He warned us that we were tilting towards becoming a nation of military and industrial production which would require a constant war albeit cold or hot to function.

We have abused our fine troops with protracted and ambiguous campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan,
and our technology and tactics have been a Darwinian synthesis chamber that created the super
terrorist to emerge as a counter to some degree in addition to the Internet and wireless phone technology enabling ourselves as well as any adversary.
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Re: Dempsey to Pentagon: Prepare For the Never-Ending War

Unread postby ennui2 » Sat 04 Jul 2015, 17:44:27

Yeah, let's all cite George Orwell yet again. (*yawn*)

I'd really like to hear people's ideal foreign policy because I can pretty much guarantee you that the logic of cause-and-effect is riddled with holes. It's just that since we haven't tried it, people can build whatever fantasy narrative they want. Doesn't mean it would actually play out that way. But it's comforting to think it would, hence the whining continues.
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Re: Dempsey to Pentagon: Prepare For the Never-Ending War

Unread postby Withnail » Sat 04 Jul 2015, 17:51:33

ennui2 wrote:
I'd really like to hear people's ideal foreign policy.


The destruction of American economic, propaganda and military power.
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Re: Dempsey to Pentagon: Prepare For the Never-Ending War

Unread postby Cog » Sat 04 Jul 2015, 18:42:27

Withnail wrote:
ennui2 wrote:
I'd really like to hear people's ideal foreign policy.


The destruction of American economic, propaganda and military power.


It would be interesting to run that simulation and see how quickly you would change your mind. The American empire has over-reached militarily, in the past decade or two, and its fiscal policy needs to be revamped, but we are by no means finished as a world power.
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Re: Dempsey to Pentagon: Prepare For the Never-Ending War

Unread postby americandream » Sat 04 Jul 2015, 19:36:50

Fishman wrote:Well we're pretty much screwed for the near term " The US will have to be smart.(with Barky the incompetent lying president?)
Keep the powder dry. "(oooow, microagression folks)
We're basically like Israel now, surrounded by folks that want to destroy us. And for the clowns -America is the bad guy all the time- the countries of southeast Asia look on as China expands in their back yard.


It is for reasons such as this that I recommend that people understand the human systems that circumscribe how we live.

England, not Great Britain but England specifically, with the aid of America will dominate the world economy till it collapses. The Soviets tried to challenge that dominance with circular economics and failed.

The Chinese are no competition as Englands supremacy goes beyond manufacture and export to the very cultural heart of the system. England conquers by assimilation and China is rapidly being assimilated as a cheap manufacturer of bourgeoisie icons.

As for this war with Islam, Dempsey may well be correct as there are many in the Arab Empire who would love to supplant Englands domination with that of the Arabian Peninsula. However, that will never happen as Islam is feudal and cannot be dovetailed with capitalism. The Arabs would in effect have to don the clothes of England culturally in order to secure the dominant ^position and that would take generations and the onset of Islams own Reformation.
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Re: Dempsey to Pentagon: Prepare For the Never-Ending War

Unread postby Withnail » Sat 04 Jul 2015, 19:40:54

Cog wrote:
Withnail wrote:
ennui2 wrote:
I'd really like to hear people's ideal foreign policy.


The destruction of American economic, propaganda and military power.


It would be interesting to run that simulation and see how quickly you would change your mind. The American empire has over-reached militarily, in the past decade or two, and its fiscal policy needs to be revamped, but we are by no means finished as a world power.


The question wasn't if you are finished or not.

actually it wasnt even a question. i was just describing my ideal foreign policy goals.
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Re: Dempsey to Pentagon: Prepare For the Never-Ending War

Unread postby ennui2 » Wed 22 Jul 2015, 13:54:04

Withnail wrote:
Cog wrote:
Withnail wrote:
ennui2 wrote:
I'd really like to hear people's ideal foreign policy.


The destruction of American economic, propaganda and military power.


It would be interesting to run that simulation and see how quickly you would change your mind. The American empire has over-reached militarily, in the past decade or two, and its fiscal policy needs to be revamped, but we are by no means finished as a world power.


The question wasn't if you are finished or not.

actually it wasnt even a question. i was just describing my ideal foreign policy goals.


Your "ideal foreign policy" goals are about as sophisticated as lighting an Uncle Sam effigy on fire and screaming "death to America". Forgive us for not being moved by your blind rage.
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Re: Dempsey to Pentagon: Prepare For the Never-Ending War

Unread postby onlooker » Thu 23 Jul 2015, 18:08:42

Yeah, let's all cite George Orwell yet again. (*yawn*)

Well it is appropriate to cite George Orwell as the concept of an endless war was the central thesis of his book "1984". The purpose of war is war. Why? Because by being constantly in a state of war, the civilian population could be totally and utterly controlled. First, they would rely on the government for security. Second, their would be a blanket of surveillance over the country to insure no infiltration, espionage or subversive activity. Third, the war would create very distinct permanent classes. The proletariat who would be virtual slaves and have little need for education and thus be content with primitive impulse satisfaction such as Kardashians, Zombies etc.. Above them the somewhat educated office workers who would be very controlled and very indoctrinated as to the myths the State wished to maintain. That the war is good vs bad. That Big Brother is the protector of the realm etc. Oh sounds familiar the War on Terrorism to last for an indefinite period of time. Finally, the ruling elite. They get to say elite and wealthy, that sounds like a goal unto itself for them does it not?
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Re: Dempsey to Pentagon: Prepare For the Never-Ending War

Unread postby sparky » Thu 23 Jul 2015, 20:45:38

.
one should emphasis the record of the US military in recent memory

- World war 2 .... Came in late dragged into it by Japan and Germany stupidly declaring war ,
let the Soviet break the Wehrmacht then got serious and landed to stop the Soviets from liberating Belgium

-Korea , managed a draw against a third class enemy helped by under equipped Chinese

-Vietnam , a pretty clear disaster , fought to stop China , that was delusionnal in the extreme
after the US shameful loss , the Vietnamese fought the Chinese in a sharp war
now we are best friends with everybody while the Viets and Chineses are still growling at each other

- Granada , a clear win by the biggest military power against a tin pot fifth rate country

- Irak part 1 , a clear success , sending everyone into flag waving rapture

- Afghanistan , well at least how to withdrawal from a Sh.thole war seems to have been learned

- Irak part 2 , one cannot rest on a good score let's do it again , bringing democracy is a worthwhile goal
.....whatever the end result is

On the whole it would seems that the Pentagon is a endless money pit looking for places to be made to look ridiculous
if they were in business , they would have been bankrupt age ago ,
their delusional idiocy is only equaled by their free spending of tax money and lifeblood of young men
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Re: Dempsey to Pentagon: Prepare For the Never-Ending War

Unread postby ennui2 » Sat 25 Jul 2015, 00:36:13

onlooker wrote:Because by being constantly in a state of war, the civilian population could be totally and utterly controlled.


I get the concept. What bothers me is people tend to want to apply the analogy to US foreign policy while ignoring places where this tactic of control is much more of an open-shut case, like North Korea.

onlooker wrote:That Big Brother is the protector of the realm etc. Oh sounds familiar the War on Terrorism to last for an indefinite period of time.


So how does this jive with, let's say, the degree to which the current administration is willing to negotiate with Iran? You could make the case that GW Bush had an absolutist policy like this, but it's softened, despite drones and cell phone surveillance. Meanwhile, terrorism remains a legitimate threat. So I don't think it's quite as dystopian in the US as some believe. There's a democratic process that allows us to ratchet our way off the precipice, just as we did on our way out of McCarthyism. These self-correcting mechanisms are lacking in places like Iran and North Korea. And yet there's a hell of a lot more whining about the US as the world's boogeyman. It's a double-standard.
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