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Delay of Peak Oil?

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: Delay of Peak Oil?

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Mon 05 Mar 2018, 20:47:41

If you want to get serious, refute this :


I already refuted that load of horsepucky a long time ago in the abiotic thread and I have no interest in arguing with someone who knows absolutely nothing about geochemistry nor apparently simple physics. As I said a long time ago trying to explain simple basic geochemistry to you is like trying to explain the workings of a chain saw to a chimpanzee. There is no percentage in it.
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Re: Delay of Peak Oil?

Unread postby asg70 » Mon 05 Mar 2018, 20:51:21

ROCKMAN wrote:Folks really do need to appreciate the petroleum industry’s success given the odds against us.


We should thank you for helping us kill the planet while you laugh all the way to the bank? It's a technical achievement and a tragedy at the same time.
“If and when the oil price skewers for 6 months or more substantially above the MAP, then I will concede the Etp is inherently flawed"
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Re: Delay of Peak Oil?

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Mon 05 Mar 2018, 22:30:34

70 - "We should thank you for helping us kill the planet..." Actually it's you and all the other fossil fuel consumers that should get the credit for DIRECTLY PRODUCE the vast majority of the GHG. Without y'all converting the ff we produce into climate altering emissions the earth would be doing just fine. After all I've never seen one report of you consumers being forced to buy petroleum products...it has always been voluntary on your part. In fact, not just voluntary but typically done with great enthusiasm.

You're correct: it is the Rockman and the rest of the petroleum industry that should be thanking you and the rest of the fossil fuel consumers. Without your disregard for the damage you're doing we wouldn't have jobs.
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Re: Delay of Peak Oil?

Unread postby peakoilwhen » Tue 06 Mar 2018, 05:58:31

@rockdoc123
>" I have no time to retell anything, I've got more important things to do. In fact i don't even have time to link to the posts I purport I made that totally refute what you say. In fact I won't write to anyone unless they've got a degree in geochemistry. Now let me get back to my important work...
< goes back to writing out literally 1000s of carefully thought out and worded essays telling the global warming retards they are wrong, knowing they won't read or understand a word u say > "


You make a fool of yourself with excuses this low.
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Re: Delay of Peak Oil?

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Tue 06 Mar 2018, 10:00:45

You make a fool of yourself with excuses this low.


I suggest you go back and read the very long abiotic thread and then read your own incredibly idiotic comments and contemplate the fact you can't understand the simplest explanation of geochemical principles. Why would anyone waste any time with you?
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Re: Delay of Peak Oil?

Unread postby GHung » Tue 06 Mar 2018, 10:30:00

rockdoc123 wrote:
You make a fool of yourself with excuses this low.


I suggest you go back and read the very long abiotic thread and then read your own incredibly idiotic comments and contemplate the fact you can't understand the simplest explanation of geochemical principles. Why would anyone waste any time with you?


Not sure why you guys are responding to this obvious troll's provocations. Said troll's repeated BS comments on just about every thread have no basis in reality. Ignore this fool and eventually he will go back to trolling dumb republicans on americanstinker.com.
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Re: Delay of Peak Oil?

Unread postby AdamB » Tue 06 Mar 2018, 10:39:12

peakoilwhen wrote:@rockdoc123
>" I have no time to retell anything, I've got more important things to do. In fact i don't even have time to link to the posts I purport I made that totally refute what you say. In fact I won't write to anyone unless they've got a degree in geochemistry. Now let me get back to my important work...
< goes back to writing out literally 1000s of carefully thought out and worded essays telling the global warming retards they are wrong, knowing they won't read or understand a word u say > "


You make a fool of yourself with excuses this low.


Sounds like proper treatment of someone who can't be bothered to learn the first things about basic geochemistry to me. You might be taken more seriously if you were qualified to do anything except be a cheerleader on a topic you are obviously unfamiliar with.
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Re: Delay of Peak Oil?

Unread postby peakoilwhen » Tue 06 Mar 2018, 12:02:43

rockdoc123 wrote:
You make a fool of yourself with excuses this low.

I suggest you go back and read the very long abiotic thread and then read your own incredibly idiotic comments and contemplate the fact you can't understand the simplest explanation of geochemical principles. Why would anyone waste any time with you?


And will u reciprocate by reading the very long 50 years of abiotic theory based around Russian-Ukrainian theory? No? Didn't think so. You can't. Just like a muslim can't read a bible.

But I can. I'm not a religious freak whose only faculty is to insult those who question the sacred scripture. I've had a good read of the abiotic thread, and I'll read it more in the future. But I noticed there was something missing. Something you've alluded to for a while. I searched for your posts, where you purport you dealt with abiotic oil thoroughly - bear in mind you have taken the time to write 1000s of post in the environment forum arguing with idiots. So how many posts did you write in the abiotic thread? 1000s? 100s? 50?

12

and here they are
1. post245027.html?hilit=abiotic#p245027
2. post251337.html?hilit=abiotic#p251337
3. post262501.html?hilit=abiotic#p262501
4. post262662.html?hilit=abiotic#p262662
5. post969203.html?hilit=abiotic#p969203
6. post970129.html?hilit=abiotic#p970129
7. post975456.html?hilit=abiotic#p975456
8. post976930.html?hilit=abiotic#p976930
9. post977564.html?hilit=abiotic#p977564
10. post992312.html?hilit=abiotic#p992312
11. post992402.html?hilit=abiotic#p992402
12. post1184449.html?hilit=abiotic#p1184449

the only thing you manage to say is that oil has got biological markers in it, and from that you conclude oil is biogenic. That's like saying the moon has got human footprints in it, therefore the moon is made by humans. Duh.
No wonder this little tribe of followers you've got here has just one faculty : to insult those who question your koran ( biogenic oil belief ). Its the only thing you've taught them in 13 years.

In total you posted 60 times on the subject of abiotic oil. Half the time you are saying ' I've dealt with abiotic theory already, I'm not doing it again'. So really its only 30 times since 2005 you've actually engaged on the subject.

It is a fact that you love arguing with idiots ( see your 1000s of posts on the enviro forum ). Yet here you are telling us (a) You won't argue with an idiot, (b) that you have dealt with abiotic oil conclusively. (a) is patently false and a lie, (b) is at best weak and likely false.
Even when I remove myself from the argument and ask for your comment on work by professionals, instead of commenting, you shoot the messenger. Like me being an idiot somehow affects the validity of work done years ago, thousands of miles away by other people.

You are covering something. What? That abiotic theory is correct, but u can't handle it, because your pride and life are invested in an alternate and wrong theory.
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Re: Delay of Peak Oil?

Unread postby Cog » Tue 06 Mar 2018, 12:15:55

I'm disappointed that there are not more flat earthers posting in this thread. ;) But since we have abiotic oil people posting in it, I will have to accept that as a substitute.
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Re: Delay of Peak Oil?

Unread postby peakoilwhen » Tue 06 Mar 2018, 12:17:52

>I already refuted <Kenney et al. (2002)> a long time ago in the abiotic thread

no you haven't. I've checked all your posts. No results. Guess we know now why you didn't link to your 'refutation'.
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Re: Delay of Peak Oil?

Unread postby peakoilwhen » Tue 06 Mar 2018, 12:26:04

@cog
as I've said, you don't realize how cut off from modern western consensus this little community is. You're in a tiny echo chamber with rd as your leader showing u the way to be a biogenic oil believer : by insulting anyone who questions your belief.
It must have pained your leader when he red the comments in a 'origins of oil post' on WUWT the #1 most popular science blog in the world. The comments section was packed with abiotic proponents, many of whom gave the impression they'd spent time on the peak oil doom sites like this one and come away with the conclusion that mineral oil is abiotic and practically inexhaustible. Bear in mind WUWT is not an oil or abiotic oil site. Its mostly popular climate, with a few general science articles.

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/02/18/ ... come-from/
u enjoy reading abiotic talk, have a good read there.
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Re: Delay of Peak Oil?

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Tue 06 Mar 2018, 16:02:03

no you haven't. I've checked all your posts. No results. Guess we know now why you didn't link to your 'refutation'.


Jesus wept. Educate yourself as to Le Chateliers Principle, it is impossible even if liquids could be formed in any volume (which doesn't work out from a mass balance point anyway) at great depths bringing liquids to any elevation in the crust requires they remain in disequilibrium the entire time. Doesn't happen in the real world, i.e it is a chemical and physical impossibility. I spoke of this on numerous occasions and you just ignored it hence why I can't be bothered dealing with your idiocy further.

Also ask yourself why there is no oil seeping out of the mid-ocean ridges which have been sampled extensively, why is there no oil seeping out of volcanoes ? The only hydrocarbon that has ever been found at surface that could have been sourced from the mantle is methane (Le Chateliers Principle) and not at the quantities needed to fill one moderate sized gas pool let alone all the ones in the world discovered to date. The list of evidence for an organic source of hydrocarbons is huge and I am not going to repeat everything I have pointed to at length in the past that is basic known science that you have chosen to ignore. There is not a single oil and gas accumulation in the world that cannot be explained easily using the theories of oil and gas maturation and migration that have been developed over the past half century.

I'm afraid you are the definition of an ignorant troll which is why you are mocked extensively on this site.
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Re: Delay of Peak Oil?

Unread postby peakoilwhen » Tue 06 Mar 2018, 17:34:52

> Le Chateliers Principle
> I spoke of this on numerous occasions

search reveals its the 1st time u've mentioned it on this forum. Are you talking about somewhere else, like your own blog?

even if liquids could be formed in any volume (which doesn't work out from a mass balance point anyway)
The outer core is a liquid. What does your mass balance say about that? I think it'd say " oh dear, I've been refuted by the outer core, bye! "

bringing <mantle> liquids to any elevation in the crust requires they remain in disequilibrium the entire time.
erm, of course there's a disequilibrium. turn on your kitchen water tap. You might notice water comes out. The reason it does is because there's a pressure disequilibrium between the water pressure and the atmos pressure. Saying liquid can't go upwards cos there's a disequilibrium is the opposite of the truth : it can go up because there's a disequilibrium.

Also ask yourself why there is no oil seeping out of the mid-ocean ridges which have been sampled extensively,
ok now this the 1st reasonable point u make. It's also easy to understand.
I don't know. I would guess its possible that petroleum is leaking out from the ocean floor, but its being eaten b4 it gets to the surface in any noticable amount. All these flourishes of microbes and fish have to come from something, and photosynthesis may not be source. We know it ain't for all the life around the rifts that eat the methane. I've heard some other abiotic person go on about this somewhere.
It may be that ocean floor is good at containing petroleum in the unstable zone, such that large amounts don't build up and escape out the floor but are being recycled back into the mantle.

But I'd like to see BP drill ocean floor like they did in the Gulf. Possibly another rig destroyed because the biotic rockdoc's in charge of the rig's specs say " oh there's no way theres much oil under the ocean, trust us, they'll never be enough pressure to wreck the rig! "

why is there no oil seeping out of volcanoes ?
Oh I know that one. Volcanoes are too hot at too low pressure , anoxic petroleum would decompose.
But I've wondered if volcanoes are powered by hydrocarbon. Aside being a leak straight from the mantle, what else could they be? last time i looked into it, I couldn't make it work. Volcano rocks didn't seem to be pieces of burnt oil. But I haven't given up the idea completely.

>The only hydrocarbon that has ever been found at surface that could have been sourced from the mantle is methane (Le Chateliers Principle)
Dafuq has that got to do with only methane getting to the surface? Chatty's principle is a ' least action principle' you're going to have to spell out what this has got to do with only methane getting to the surface. Or link to something that explains it. Don't pretend that everyone here except me understands it. They don't.

The list of evidence for an organic source of hydrocarbons is huge and I am not going to repeat everything I have pointed to at length in the past that is basic known science that you have chosen to ignore.

Yet you'll repeat yourself dozens of times on the enviro forum. Doesn't look like you'll link to these explanations, either your own, or by others. I'm left having to sift thru your 60 posts on abiotic oil only 30 of which are substancial. Perhaps it would tickle your ego if we start a new thread " RocDoc's 30 posts on abiotic oil, by dissection " - an attempt to extract substancial information on a subject he has exhausted himself on.
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Re: Delay of Peak Oil?

Unread postby GHung » Tue 06 Mar 2018, 17:53:37

peakoilwhen wrote; ".....I'm left having to sift thru your 60 posts on abiotic oil only 30 of which are substancial ...."


Why would you do that? Idiotic trolling is the only answer.
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Re: Delay of Peak Oil?

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Tue 06 Mar 2018, 18:44:14

search reveals its the 1st time u've mentioned it on this forum. Are you talking about somewhere else, like your own blog?

Look up the word "equilibrium" dipshit

bringing <mantle> liquids to any elevation in the crust requires they remain in disequilibrium the entire time. 
erm, of course there's a disequilibrium. turn on your kitchen water tap. You might notice water comes out. The reason it does is because there's a pressure disequilibrium between the water pressure and the atmos pressure. Saying liquid can't go upwards cos there's a disequilibrium is the opposite of the truth : it can go up because there's a disequilibrium.


Are you actually this stupid? The disequilibrium I am talking about (that anyone who took first year chemistry would understand) is that liquids can only remain in that state at a range of P and T….rising in the crust a liquid is no longer in equilibrium and moves to the gas phase at which point all that is left is methane. I’ve explained this numerous times but as I said before like trying to explain a chainsaw to a chimp. What you are taling about has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with equilibrium, you don't understand the concept one bit.

I don't know. I would guess its possible that petroleum is leaking out from the ocean floor, 


I didn’t say the ocean floor you idiot, I said the mid ocean rise where hot magma with volatiles have moved from the deep crust/asthenosphere to the sea. The rest of the ocean has no access to fluids from that depth. Oil seeps throughout the GOM have all been typed to an organic source rock from shallow crustal levels.

he only hydrocarbon that has ever been found at surface that could have been sourced from the mantle is methane (Le Chateliers Principle) 
Dafuq has that got to do with only methane getting to the surface? Chatty's principle is a ' least action principle' you're going to have to spell out what this has got to do with only methane getting to the surface. Or link to something that explains it. Don't pretend that everyone here except me understands it. They don't.


Again, learn some frigging chemistry and physics. Le Chateliers Principle explains how chemical phases must remain in equilibrium, liquids become gases at certain temperatures and pressures. Liquid hydrocarbons crack at certain temperatures with only methane remaining. Unfortunately for you, everyone here BUT you understands this which confirms my view you are nothing more than a pimply faced teenager typing away in his mothers basement. And one, apparently who skipped out on basic chemistry and physics classes.

I'm left having to sift thru your 60 posts on abiotic oil only 30 of which are substancial.


And exactly how would you understand what is substantial? Your posts have shown a complete lack of understanding of very basic science, you point to papers you have never read nor would have a hope of comprehending. Not sure why you want to continue to make a complete arse of yourself, because that is exactly what you are doing by trying to resurrect a subject that has been put to bed many years ago by all but a few lunatics or idiots.

this is going exactly where the last discussion went....you can't comprehend what is being said and you come up with complete nonsense. It is not worth my time...chimpanzees do not need to know how to run chainsaws even if they could be taught. So I am done.
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Re: Delay of Peak Oil?

Unread postby peakoilwhen » Tue 06 Mar 2018, 19:48:59

in the crust a liquid is no longer in equilibrium and moves to the gas phase at which point all that is left is methane.
Yes i understand PT phase diagrams. We know that liquids water and petroleum can be stable in the crust. I imagine that when oil rises from the mantle the decreasing pressure is 'in equalibrium' as you'd say, with the decreasing temperature. So the oil doesn't have to crack to methane everytime. Anyway, why does the oil have to start as liquid? It could be an oil solid that depressurized to a liquid only when it gets to the crust. That would cheer you up since you are rooting for a state change. right?

I didn’t say the ocean floor you idiot, I said the mid ocean rise where hot magma with volatiles have moved from the deep crust/asthenosphere to the sea.
I'm not sure I believe in mid ocean rifts. It's possible they are a conspiracy by plate tectonic lords who needed their convection recycling of the crust, which is total horseshit of course. More likely you'll find only an occasional small incidental rift at the mid-line between continents. I think such rifts are quite evenly distributed over the ocean floor. so talking about rifts to me makes me think of any old place on the ocean floor. i could be wrong though.

And exactly how would you understand what is substantial?
I've already told u. The ones where you go into technical details instead of just insults and abstains

rockdoc123 wrote:someone please point this gentleman to the abiotic oil thread.
I can't possibly go through this once again! :cry:

post1074133.html?hilit=abiotic#p1074133
this one from August 2011 is unsubstancial
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Re: Delay of Peak Oil?

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Tue 06 Mar 2018, 22:37:18

in the crust a liquid is no longer in equilibrium and moves to the gas phase at which point all that is left is methane.
Yes i understand PT phase diagrams. We know that liquids water and petroleum can be stable in the crust. I imagine that when oil rises from the mantle the decreasing pressure is 'in equalibrium' as you'd say, with the decreasing temperature. So the oil doesn't have to crack to methane everytime. Anyway, why does the oil have to start as liquid? It could be an oil solid that depressurized to a liquid only when it gets to the crust. That would cheer you up since you are rooting for a state change. right?


Jesus wept. Hydrocarbons in liquid form cannot exist at temperatures much above 160 C. That is a temperature reached quite shallow in the crust even on cratons. And the ridiculous paper you pointed to actually was incapable of creating anything other than methane at very high temperature and low pressure, meaning it is not stable anywhere in the deep crust. Which means you can't somehow form it in the mantle and then bring it up through the upper mantle, lower crust without it all being converted to methane. This is a very basic principle. You are trying to make up scientific principles....which makes you a true idiot, someone who thinks he is smarter than the hundreds of scientists out there who have been working in this field for decades.

I'm not sure I believe in mid ocean rifts. It's possible they are a conspiracy by plate tectonic lords who needed their convection recycling of the crust, which is total horseshit of course. More likely you'll find only an occasional small incidental rift at the mid-line between continents. I think such rifts are quite evenly distributed over the ocean floor. so talking about rifts to me makes me think of any old place on the ocean floor. i could be wrong though.


You are a complete frigging idiot. No doubt a flat earther as well. We have pictures taken from submersible of hot smoker vents at mid ocean ridges, we have literally millions of miles of seismic data that map the sea floor out and have identified the rifts and we have heat flow measurements that show these to be areas of upwelling and we have hundreds of ocean crust cores from the ODP program and others that tell us the age of crust indicating it is younger closest to the ridge and oldest near the subduction zone. This comment from you simply confirms your status as biggest blithering fool to have ever shown up at this forum.

Please do us all a favor and once again go away.
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Re: Delay of Peak Oil?

Unread postby peakoilwhen » Wed 07 Mar 2018, 03:59:39

>Hydrocarbons in liquid form cannot exist at temperatures much above 160 C.

You're wrong. here's some big HCs and their boiling temps at 1 bar pressure. They can all exist as liquid over 160C.
decane C10H22 174
undecane C11H24 196
dodecane C12H26 216
eicosane C20H42 343
triacontane C30H62 450

You call me an idiot for not quickly catching the key word 'equalibrium' as a cue to consider pressure temperature phase charts of hydrocarbon, so I get in mind to consider PT phases charts for hydrocarbon. But then u 'pull the rug' that u just placed, by reverting back to just temperature. Pressure isn't considered.

>Hydrocarbons in liquid form cannot exist at temperatures much above 160 C.
You've prompted me to consider pressure vs temperature and then you write this. My response is : does rd think all hydrocarbon can't exist at 160C as liquids, for the entire range of physically possible pressures? i.e. 0 bar to YOTAbars? pressures strong enough to easily fuse atomic nuclei into neutron stars?

Somethings wrong with your mindset here. You accuse others of not considering pressure, yet you won't do it yourself. The criminal accuses others of his own crime.
My guess is you been told by your handlers to not consider mantle pressure effects on hydrocarbon, because there's a danger it would undermine your religion. The vast body of research on hydrocarbons over 10kbar : you've had to dismiss it all w/o consideration, and anyone who wants to consider it as a lunatic.

Anyway, what does it matter if hydrocarbons can't exist in liquid form at x temp and y pressure cos they are too light? So they become a vapour. It's not like they cease to exist. If a hydrocarbon becomes a vapour because its too warm, then it can condense to a liquid again once the temperature drops and the pressure increases in a trap formation in the upper crust. No big deal.
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Re: Delay of Peak Oil?

Unread postby peakoilwhen » Wed 07 Mar 2018, 04:16:12

the ridiculous paper you pointed to actually was incapable of creating anything other than methane at very high temperature and low pressure, meaning it is not stable anywhere in the deep crust.

Your saying : if something cannot be created at a certain PT, then it can't exist at that certain PT.
Are you sure? I don't agree. You want me to give a counter example to your assertion or can you think of one yourself?

The paper describes how they made petroleum at 50kbar. Its very well wriiten. I've been reading it.

this is a measure of the quantity of alkanes they made in ppm at 40kbar.
Image

Have you red it too? Or are you dismissing without looking at it? You need a link to it?

Also,
Would it sooth your troubled mind if I found a paper on how petroleum migrates from the mantle to the crust without decomposing? The idea seems to give u palpitations. I'd be doing it to aid your health. You'd get a warm fuzzy feeling when you thought about hydrocarbons rising from the mantle to the crust instead of chest pains.
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Re: Delay of Peak Oil?

Unread postby GHung » Wed 07 Mar 2018, 09:42:57

New U.S. Record-Level Oil Production! Peak Oil Theory Disproven! Not.

Well, I’m amazed and impressed. Tight oil production has pushed total United States petroleum output to more than 10 million barrels a day, a rate last seen almost a half-century ago. It’s a new U.S. record. Fifteen years ago I was traveling the world with a Powerpoint presentation featuring a graph of U.S. oil production history. That graph showed a clear peak in 1970 and a long bumpy decline thereafter.

Image

My message: as went the U.S., so would go the world at some point in the fairly near future. Peak oil—the inevitable moment when global oil supplies started drying up—would be a watershed for industrial societies, leading to economic contraction, geopolitical crisis, and social upheaval.

So is it time for a retraction? The optics are certainly unfavorable for peak oil theorists like me. Our forecasts obviously failed, in that none of us expected the current surge in U.S. output. But permit me to offer some context. ......

http://www.resilience.org/stories/2018- ... roven-not/
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