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Condensate...condensed.

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: Condensate...condensed.

Unread postby Synapsid » Mon 06 Oct 2014, 22:27:12

sparky,

The distillates are jet fuel and diesel, as regards transportation; the world runs on diesel to a great extent. westexas' bar graphs show that condensate, sensu lato, is great for gasoline but not so much for diesel.

There, as they say, lies the rub.
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Re: Condensate...condensed.

Unread postby toolpush » Mon 06 Oct 2014, 23:37:54

If diesel is going to be harder to get and the lighter fuels (Naphtha) more abundant, then maybe a slight change in engines may work?

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2013/10 ... phtha.html

Dr. Gautam Kalghatgi and his colleagues at Saudi Aramco and other organization such as FEV, RWTH Aachen University, and Shell Global Solutions, have been investigating the potential use of naphtha as an alternative compression-ignition (CI) fuel that offers a number of benefits, including efficient combustion; low soot and NOx emissions resulting in a less complicated after treatment system to meet modern emissions standards; and a fuel that is simpler to make than current gasoline or diesel fuels.
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Re: Condensate...condensed.

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Tue 07 Oct 2014, 08:10:22

pusher - Such plans reminded me of the cartoon with the guy clawing his way to the rear of the jet as it plummets from 35,000': he'll survive a little longer than the other passengers. LOL. The problem with any hydrocarbon substitute made from another hydrocarbon is that we are producing less of many of those H/C chains and what we are producing is costing a lot more. Even EV's that are powered from fossil fuel sourced utilities have the same problem...eventually.

The only way to escape the trap with respect to transportation might be EV’s fueled by power derived from renewable resources. But that solution has two major hurdles IMHO: costs (again) and, perhaps even a bigger problem, the time factor.
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Re: Condensate...condensed.

Unread postby sparky » Tue 07 Oct 2014, 19:51:44

.
It wouldn't work for planes , they need a high power density , can't beat hydrocarbons for bang for pound ( and I include the fuel weigh and the transfer mechanism ( motor )
I'm not sure if it even would work for farming tractors
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Re: Condensate...condensed.

Unread postby westexas » Wed 08 Oct 2014, 08:05:13

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Re: US Condensate Exports Begin

Unread postby Graeme » Wed 31 Dec 2014, 17:59:11

U.S. Easing of Oil Exports Challenges OPEC's Strategy

The Obama administration’s move to allow exports of ultralight crude without government approval may encourage shale drilling and thwart Saudi Arabia’s strategy to curb U.S. output, further weakening oil markets, according to Citigroup Inc.

A type of crude known as condensate can be exported if it is run through a distillation tower, which separates the hydrocarbons that make up the oil, according to U.S. government guidelines published yesterday. That may boost supplies ready to be sold overseas to as much as 1 million barrels a day by the end of 2015, Citigroup analysts led by Ed Morse in New York said in an e-mailed report.


Oil producers have been testing the prohibition on crude exports as U.S. output surged amid technological advances that have opened up shale rock formations to development in Texas, North Dakota and elsewhere. The government earlier this year signaled a new way to export oil by approving permits for Pioneer Natural Resources Co. and Enterprise Products Partners LP (EPD) to sell processed condensate.

The guidelines seek to clarify how the Commerce Department will implement export rules and follow a “review of technological and policy issues,” Eric Hirschhorn, the under secretary for industry and security, said in a statement.


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Re: Condensate...condensed.

Unread postby Tanada » Sun 07 Jan 2018, 23:30:50

Though our government defines Natural Gas Liquids and Petroleum Condensates as different materials the reality is they are a very close overlap in many categories. Therefore here is the EIA standard description of Natural Gas Liquids;

Natural Gas Liquids (NGL): A group of hydrocarbons including ethane, propane, normal butane, isobutane, and natural gasoline. Generally include natural gas plant liquids and all liquefied refinery gases except olefins.

Natural gas liquids production: The volume of natural gas liquids removed from natural gas in lease separators, field facilities, gas processing plants, or cycling plants during the report year.

Production, natural gas liquids: Production of natural gas liquids is classified as follows:

Contract Production. natural gas liquids accruing to a company because of its ownership of liquids extraction facilities that it uses to extract liquids from gas belonging to others, thereby earning a portion of the resultant liquids.
Leasehold Production. natural gas liquids produced, extracted, and credited to a company's interest.
Contract Reserves. Natural gas liquid reserves corresponding to the contract production defined above.
Leasehold Reserves. Natural gas liquid reserves corresponding to leasehold production defined above.

Other terms that include "natural gas liquids" in the definition.

Cycling (natural gas): The practice of producing natural gas for the extraction of natural gas liquids, returning the dry residue to the producing reservoir to maintain reservoir pressure and increase the ultimate recovery of natural gas liquids. The reinjected gas is produced for disposition after cycling operations are completed.

Foreign access: Refers to proved reserves of crude, condensate, and natural gas liquids applicable to long-term supply agreements with foreign governments or authorities in which the company or one of its affiliates acts as producer.

Fresh feed input: Represents input of material (crude oil, unfinished oils, natural gas liquids, other hydrocarbons and oxygenates or finished products) to processing units at a refinery that is being processed (input) into a particular unit for the first time.

Examples:

(1) Unfinished oils coming out of a crude oil distillation unit which are input into a catalytic cracking unit are considered fresh feed to the catalytic cracking unit.

(2) Unfinished oils coming out of a catalytic cracking unit being looped back into the same catalytic cracking unit to be reprocessed are not considered fresh feed.

Gas processing unit: A facility designed to recover natural gas liquids from a stream of natural gas that may or may not have passed through lease separators and/or field separation facilities. Another function of natural gas processing plants is to control the quality of the processed natural gas stream. Cycling plants are considered natural gas processing plants.

Hydrocarbon gas liquids (HGL): A group of hydrocarbons including ethane, propane, normal butane, isobutane, and natural gasoline, and their associated olefins, including ethylene, propylene, butylene, and isobutylene. As marketed products, HGL represents all natural gas liquids (NGL) and olefins. EIA reports production of HGL from refineries (liquefied refinery gas, or LRG) and natural gas plants (natural gas plant liquids, or NGPL). Excludes liquefied natural gas (LNG).

Liquid fuels: All petroleum including crude oil and products of petroleum refining, natural gas liquids, biofuels, and liquids derived from other hydrocarbon sources (including coal to liquids and gas to liquids). Not included are liquefied natural gas (LNG) and liquid hydrogen. See petroleum and other liquids.

Natural gas processing plant: Facilities designed to recover natural gas liquids from a stream of natural gas that may or may not have passed through lease separators and/or field separation facilities. These facilities control the quality of the natural gas to be marketed. Cycling plants are classified as gas processing plants.

New field discoveries: The volumes of proved reserves of crude oil, natural gas, and/or natural gas liquids discovered in new fields during the report year.

NGL: See natural gas liquids.

Paraffinic hydrocarbons: Saturated hydrocarbon compounds with the general formula CnH2n+2 containing only single bonds. Sometimes referred to as alkanes or natural gas liquids.

Petroleum and other liquids: All petroleum including crude oil and products of petroleum refining, natural gas liquids, biofuels, and liquids derived from other hydrocarbon sources (including coal to liquids and gas to liquids). Not included are liquefied natural gas (LNG) and liquid hydrogen. See liquid fuels.

Petroleum refinery: An installation that manufactures finished petroleum products from crude oil, unfinished oils, natural gas liquids, other hydrocarbons, and alcohol.

Plant liquids: Those volumes of natural gas liquids recovered in natural gas processing plants.

Plant or gas processing plant: A facility designated to achieve the recovery of natural gas liquids from the stream of natural gas, which may or may not have been processed through lease separators and field facilities, and to control the quality of the natural gas to be marketed.

Plant products: natural gas liquids recovered from natural gas processing plants (and in some cases from field facilities), including ethane, propane, butane, butane-propane mixtures, natural gasoline, plant condensate, and lease condensate.

Processing plant: A surface installation designed to separate and recover natural gas liquids from a stream of produced natural gas through the processes of condensation, absorption, adsorption, refrigeration, or other methods and to control the quality of natural gas marketed and/or returned to oil or gas reservoirs for pressure maintenance, repressuring, or cycling.

Refinery: An installation that manufactures finished petroleum products from crude oil, unfinished oils, natural gas liquids, other hydrocarbons, and oxygenates.

Refinery yield: Refinery yield (expressed as a percentage) represents the percent of finished product produced from input of crude oil and net input of unfinished oils. It is calculated by dividing the sum of crude oil and net unfinished input into the individual net production of finished products. Before calculating the yield for finished motor gasoline, the input of natural gas liquids, other hydrocarbons and oxygenates, and net input of motor gasoline blending components must be subtracted from the net production of finished aviation gasoline.

Shrinkage: The volume of natural gas that is transformed into liquid products during processing, primarily at natural gas liquids processing plants.

Total liquid hydrocarbon reserves: The sum of crude oil and natural gas liquids reserves volumes.


EIA NGL Info
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Re: Condensate...condensed.

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Mon 08 Jan 2018, 12:44:47

And for the newbies that haven't heard the story before. What does the Texas Rail Road Commission define as "condensate"? No, it isn't based on the API gravity of the oil (and condensate is oil): some Texas condensate is 39 API and some Texas oil is 41 API. In fact, that liquid isn't even classified based on what flows out of the well head. It is based upon the phase of that hydrocarbon as it exists in the reservoir. Under high enough pressure/temperature it can exist as a gaseous phase. As it is produced and the pressure/temperature of the production stream decreases those hydrocarbon molecule "condense" from a gaseous phase to a liquid phase. Thus why it is called condensate. Also understand as the pressure decreases NG can become so cold it can actually freeze the production stream at the surface. Often we have to run the production thru a "heater/treater" that burns some of the NG production to keep the piping from freezing.

If the reservoir metrics, as calculated by the TRRC regs, indicate those molecules are in a gaseous phase in the reservoir the TRRC classifies the well as a NG WELL with production as NG + condensate. If the calculation indicates a liquid phase then the well is classified as an OIL WELL producing oil + NG.

The classification has a huge impact. Depending on the time frame NG/condensate wells are allowed to produce liquid hydrocarbons at a much higher rate then an oil well. But even more important is the acreage assignment. In Texas each producing well is assigned a specific area of the reservoir. It varies but a NG/condensate well could be assigned 160 to 640 acres of the reservoir. If that production is classified as oil/NG in an identical reservoir the well might be assigned on 20 to 80 acres. Thus if the reservoir covers 3,000 acres the "spacing rules" would allow a much greater number of "oil wells" drilled then "gas wells" drilled. Has a huge impact depending on how many different mineral owners there are for the reservoir.

If that's not complicated enough try this: depending on the reservoir drive as a gas/condensate (by TRRC regs) is produced the reservoir pressure might decline to the point when all the hydrocarbon molecules in a gaseous phase could condense to a liquid phase while still in the reservoir. Engineers can calculate when this happens. So yes: the well might be classified as a gas/condensate well for 3 years by the TRRC and all the liquid production reported as condensate. And perhaps wells had to be drilled no closer the 160 acre spacing would allow. But thanks to reservoir pressure declining the same well is then classified as an oil/gas well after the first 3 years and all the liquid production reported as crude oil. And then numerous new wells could be drilled as the spacing rules change and units can be decreased from 160 acres to 80 acres.

Whether that happens or not involves much more reservoir engineering then I care to get into now. But bottom line: all liquid hydrocarbons produced in Texas, including those classified as condensate, are oil. Except, of course, for NGL's which can be in a liquid phase depending on the conditions.
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