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Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 30 Dec 2015, 19:42:42

Newfie wrote:Who made up the Euro nobility elites? The lucky ones born to the position. I'd venture that there are very few truly self made men, surely few compared to those who were extremely lucky. Think Washington and Churchill and Teddy Roosevelt. They each took extraordinary risks under fire, they each survived relatively unscathed while others within an arms length died. Luck.

While great men in their own right I would not consider Washington,Churchill and Teddy Roosevelt self made men. All three were born to wealthy families and used that advantage to move forward. For self made men examples I would look to the likes of Henry Ford, Tom Edison or Bill Gates
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby pstarr » Wed 30 Dec 2015, 20:23:12

vt, I don't know about Ford and Edison, but I do know that Gates is far from a self made man in the sense that he made his own nest. He didn't. Both he and Steve Jobs at Apple (not to mention the Beatles and Mozart) had the advantage of 10,000 hours of practice time before they ever held a job. 10,000 hours of playful exploration and wondrous experimentation. They succeeded on the back of their parents' college tuition and brand-new invention of microprocessors. How many of you ever were given that advantage. Read all about it in Malcom Gladwell's book Outliers: The Story of Success

Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen was born in 1953, Apple (AAPL) founder Steve Jobs in 1955, and Sun Microsystems (SUNW) founders Bill Joy and Scott McNealy in 1954. All of these Silicon Valley pioneers succeeded not just on their extraordinary talent but also because they had the right opportunities at exactly the right time. And there you have the premise of Malcolm Gladwell's latest guaranteed best-seller, Outliers: The Story of Success.
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 30 Dec 2015, 21:18:57

MonteQuest wrote:
Newfie wrote: I would not even know where to go to find a book on "them."


Funny...you found the link to my book, Madmen at the Helm. Covers them all by name. :roll:


I will try to give it a read. Will be a bit, lots of moving parts right now.

Not agreeing, just saying I'll listen with an open mind.

Would appreciate the return consideration some time in the future.

In the meantime I'd appreciate that instead of "them" you use something less nebulous. Names, organizations, etc. Might help my decrepit old mind get a handle on this new fangled idear.
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby MonteQuest » Wed 30 Dec 2015, 21:37:45

Newfie wrote: In the meantime I'd appreciate that instead of "them" you use something less nebulous. Names, organizations, etc. Might help my decrepit old mind get a handle on this new fangled idear.


That was your moniker, not mine. You can try Council on Foreign Relations, Fabian Society, Bilderbergs, Rothchilds...for starters. None Dare Call It Conspiracy by Larry Abrahams is a good primer to read.
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 31 Dec 2015, 07:28:56

Vtsnowedin.
I don't consider them self made men either. I DO consider them very lucky men. They all demonstrated reckless behaviors that should have, and nearly did, get them shot. But their luck added to their cache, their persona, and aided them in moving forward.

How many others, Equally well born, died?

Monte,
Thanks for the clarifications. I used "them" because folks here, you too, speak generally about some secretive and powerful bee group. There seems to be consensus that such a group exists, with no consensus on who belongs to it.

Maybe, if I can put together a list of "super groups" I'll start a poll to see who believes in what group.

So far I have
CFR
ROTHCHILDS
FABIANS
BILDENBERGERS
that Catholic group Scalia belongs to
Mason's
The 0.1%'ers
Meat eaters (Dohboi)
The Military - US specific
The Military - general
Oil cartels - mid eastern producing states
Oil cartels - western refining and distribution companies
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby Cog » Thu 31 Dec 2015, 08:10:59

MonteQuest wrote:
Newfie wrote: In the meantime I'd appreciate that instead of "them" you use something less nebulous. Names, organizations, etc. Might help my decrepit old mind get a handle on this new fangled idear.


That was your moniker, not mine. You can try Council on Foreign Relations, Fabian Society, Bilderbergs, Rothchilds...for starters. None Dare Call It Conspiracy by Larry Abrahams is a good primer to read.


Since you brought up the usual conspiracies I need to ask a question of you to see if your opinions are worthwhile to read.

Was 911 a US government conspiracy or some other conspiracy {insert Bilderbergs, Illuminati, etc here] or is the official story about the 19 hijackers from the Middle East accurate?

Did the USA land on the moon repeatedly with manned spacecraft?

Are Jews behind all the evil in the world that you can observe?

Depending on your responses, you might be worthwhile to listen to going forward. Or Not
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 31 Dec 2015, 09:21:10

Monte,

I'm gonna start a new thread so as not to drag this one further off.
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby MonteQuest » Thu 31 Dec 2015, 11:25:46

Newfie wrote:Monte,

I'm gonna start a new thread so as not to drag this one further off.


Good idea.
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby Cog » Thu 31 Dec 2015, 13:15:14

Newfie wrote:Monte,

I'm gonna start a new thread so as not to drag this one further off.


It was just starting to get good Newfie. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby ennui2 » Sat 02 Jan 2016, 16:26:40

MonteQuest wrote:
Newfie wrote: In the meantime I'd appreciate that instead of "them" you use something less nebulous. Names, organizations, etc. Might help my decrepit old mind get a handle on this new fangled idear.


That was your moniker, not mine. You can try Council on Foreign Relations, Fabian Society, Bilderbergs, Rothchilds...for starters. None Dare Call It Conspiracy by Larry Abrahams is a good primer to read.


Tinfoil. Tsk tsk. Et tu, Monte?
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby MonteQuest » Sat 02 Jan 2016, 16:48:31

ennui2 wrote:
MonteQuest wrote:
Newfie wrote: In the meantime I'd appreciate that instead of "them" you use something less nebulous. Names, organizations, etc. Might help my decrepit old mind get a handle on this new fangled idear.


That was your moniker, not mine. You can try Council on Foreign Relations, Fabian Society, Bilderbergs, Rothchilds...for starters. None Dare Call It Conspiracy by Larry Abrahams is a good primer to read.


Tinfoil. Tsk tsk. Et tu, Monte?


Tinfoil? How some describe them, perhaps. I watch what they actually do in broad daylight.
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 02 Jan 2016, 16:53:52

Or what someone who would know says about them in public. Speech by President John F. Kennedy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhkjYJA ... w&index=22
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby MonteQuest » Fri 22 Jan 2016, 22:46:32

One of those zoonotic diseases I have been warning about is becoming a epidemic. The Zika virus. And it is coming to the US of A. There is no vaccine to prevent or medicine to treat Zika.

Zika virus
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 23 Jan 2016, 00:17:42

Related to collapse?
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby EdwinSm » Sat 23 Jan 2016, 01:27:31

Zika... at this stage, if it hit hard, I think it would probably be more of a "die-back" rather than a "die-off". This is especially true if women postpone getting pregnant - but this will take a long time to affect the overall population levels. So a very, very slow collapse (or slowing down of growth rate).

However, if people heed the travel warnings then it might lead to economic problems in the countries were Zika is. And what will people do for winter breaks if it gets established in Florida (instead of the current cases which were contracted out of the area)?

For some years I have followed the ups and downs of possible pandemic flu, and I have come to fear an overreaction to a bad medical situation creating an economic and social mess that in itself could be more damaging than just the illness. By 'economic and social mess' I mean the temporary shutting down of parts of the infrastructure of our lives - this could be large scale quarantine (as they did with Ebola in West Africa), or having too many people off work so the JIT (Just In Time) food supplies dry up, or hospitals full up so new cases could not be properly treated.

In itself I don't expect Zika to bring a collapse (but I will keep looking at it with a view that I might have to change my mind), but it might be one of the "straws" that finally "breaks the camel's back".
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 23 Jan 2016, 09:17:49

Ed,
I had similar fears about Ebola, less about the disease, more about the social and economic disruption.
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 23 Jan 2016, 09:51:57

Yes it seems what would most likely bring about a collapse scenario would be a combination of factors such as economic, health, resource constraint subsequent social collapse etc. It seems the Third World is ripe for a major disease outbreak and even in the US with vulnerable and weak people over medicated and antibiotic resistant with weak immune systems are a segment of the population where a disease can gain a foothold. It seems anywhere you look on the planet dark clouds of several factors are hovering over threatening collapse scenarios.
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sat 23 Jan 2016, 10:09:05

onlooker wrote:Yes it seems what would most likely bring about a collapse scenario would be a combination of factors such as economic, health, resource constraint subsequent social collapse etc. It seems the Third World is ripe for a major disease outbreak and even in the US with vulnerable and weak people over medicated and antibiotic resistant with weak immune systems are a segment of the population where a disease can gain a foothold. It seems anywhere you look on the planet dark clouds of several factors are hovering over threatening collapse scenarios.

I'd look to the soon to be closed border between the middle east and Europe . The resultant overcrowded refugee camps that will result will be a breeding ground for disease and war.
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 23 Jan 2016, 10:21:25

Good point V.
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby MonteQuest » Sat 23 Jan 2016, 10:26:32

vtsnowedin wrote:The resultant overcrowded refugee camps that will result will be a breeding ground for disease and war.


Warmer temperatures, due to global climate change, are enhancing the breeding grounds for mosquitoes that are spreading the Zika Virus.
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