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Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby pstarr » Wed 30 Dec 2015, 13:17:41

Monte, you are deluded if you think the New York Times and other so-called liberal media are not part of the same group. They have simply agreed to divide the pie up for the good of the rest us. Objectivity in news demands it lol
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby onlooker » Wed 30 Dec 2015, 13:40:01

Very true Pstarr, liberal news media faithful to the liberal talking points to make the next "election" interesting and show their is a difference between the Red and Blue states. In actuality they are all bought off and pretty much are mutually consistent in the main capitalism themes and in giving scant coverage to any news that speaks of high up corruption or the underlying makeup of the Doom headed our way.
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 30 Dec 2015, 13:46:46

MonteQuest wrote:
Newfie wrote:There is another group (MQ, KJ, Ennui, Sea) that tends to see things more just as the nature of the beast. That group seems to get that we are all interchangeable.


To a degree. There have always been wealthy, erudite and powerful men who have wished to rule the entire world—secure in the notion that they would know what was best for the masses. In the past, conquest has failed to achieve this, due to the resulting outrage and awareness of the enemy. In our present time, there are many groups of such men who are trying a subtle but effective way to rule. The oligarchs and plutocrats are imposing their notion of what they think is best. Fox News, right-wing talk radio, and media events are being used effectively to dumb-down the populace and obscure the real issues and change the public focus. This "Cabal" isn't invisible; it's hiding before your very eyes.


What you describe are many competing groups. And sure they exist.

However there is no ONE paramount group who is sitting some cigar smoked room making God like moves that move and shake the world.

It's much more like the Greek gods, petty and fighting and undermining one another.
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby onlooker » Wed 30 Dec 2015, 13:50:08

Yet united Newfie in wanting to remain at the top and super wealthy and thus not wishing a dramatic change to BAU
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 30 Dec 2015, 14:24:20

onlooker wrote:Yet united Newfie in wanting to remain at the top and super wealthy and thus not wishing a dramatic change to BAU


They are not united, they are cutting each others throats. If you want to talk about folks who do not want dramatic change, well then you need to include the 1+ something billion folks who enjoy the first world standard of living, like you and me. So, do YOU feel like part of the cabal? Neither do "they."
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby onlooker » Wed 30 Dec 2015, 14:41:42

Never said we the 1 billion plus did not want to continue living like that. As for the Cabal "cutting each others throats" is normal for them. But my point stands that they are comfortable in BAU in the same way the 1 billion are with things the way they are. Only difference is their definition of comfort is different than ours. For them it is being super wealthy and having inordinate power. So they are not demons, they are us with just a little more umph. That much we do agree on.
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby MonteQuest » Wed 30 Dec 2015, 14:47:35

pstarr wrote:Monte, you are deluded if you think the New York Times and other so-called liberal media are not part of the same group. They have simply agreed to divide the pie up for the good of the rest us. Objectivity in news demands it lol


I most certainly do think they are one and the same. Subtle, isn't it?
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby MonteQuest » Wed 30 Dec 2015, 14:50:44

Newfie wrote:What you describe are many competing groups. And sure they exist.

However there is no ONE paramount group who is sitting some cigar smoked room making God like moves that move and shake the world. It's much more like the Greek gods, petty and fighting and undermining one another.


On that, we can agree. But they agree more than they disagree.
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Wed 30 Dec 2015, 15:11:19

Newfie wrote:What you describe are many competing groups. And sure they exist.

However there is no ONE paramount group who is sitting some cigar smoked room making God like moves that move and shake the world.

It's much more like the Greek gods, petty and fighting and undermining one another.

How about the old Euro nobility, who were all cousins but sent their subjects out to fight each other.
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 30 Dec 2015, 16:41:56

MonteQuest wrote:
Newfie wrote:What you describe are many competing groups. And sure they exist.

However there is no ONE paramount group who is sitting some cigar smoked room making God like moves that move and shake the world. It's much more like the Greek gods, petty and fighting and undermining one another.


On that, we can agree. But they agree more than they disagree.


Don't we all? Don't we all want more of the same life we now have? Don't we all want to be fat if we want to be?

How are we different form "them" whoever "them" is.

In fact their only power comes from us. They are the 0.1% right? Surely we could wipe them out. Except we can't because they write the add for all the sparklies we so desire. They control our lust in order to sate their lust.

I really don't believe that Hillary or Gates or whomever is really all that much smarter than any one of us here.

The only reason you or I are not part of the 0.1% elite is luck, pure simple luck. The same luck that made us part of the 1.0% elite.

Who made up the Euro nobility elites? The lucky ones born to the position. I'd venture that there are very few truly self made men, surely few compared to those who were extremely lucky. Think Washington and Churchill and Teddy Roosevelt. They each took extraordinary risks under fire, they each survived relatively unscathed while others within an arms length died. Luck.
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby MonteQuest » Wed 30 Dec 2015, 16:46:56

Newfie wrote: How are we different form "them" whoever "them" is.


I take it you haven't read much about "them." Otherwise, you would know.

They take us to war, for starters.
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby onlooker » Wed 30 Dec 2015, 16:54:45

They make decisions that affect many many lives also.
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 30 Dec 2015, 17:19:31

Ok so we kill the lucky ones and that will fix everything?
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby onlooker » Wed 30 Dec 2015, 17:27:21

It is not about killing anyone. It is about killing certain ideas like might makes right, greed, hatred etc. It is about changing consciousness. Anybody can do that, the biological imperative to kill and compete is no stronger than the one to cooperate and help. It is a matter of each one of us truly deciding what path to take. A change in consciousness. Of course it cannot be done if one does not even believe it is possible.
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 30 Dec 2015, 17:47:48

Try reading "Mother Nature is Trying to Kill You." It has a good explanation of how our emotions are driven by our genes at a molecular level. How we are all "Meat Robots".

Once you absorb that then you canget a grip on how difficult it is to truly change our behaviour on any kind of large scale.

So you are right, I don't believe it can be done on any kind of sufficiently short time scale to be meaningful to the curren predicament.

Huffing and puffing "I think I can" works well in children's books, and politics. Pretty similar really.
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 30 Dec 2015, 18:10:04

MonteQuest wrote:
Newfie wrote: How are we different form "them" whoever "them" is.


I take it you haven't read much about "them." Otherwise, you would know.

They take us to war, for starters.


Sorry Monte, nothing I have seen or read has convienced me of a "them." And I read a fair bit. No TV, but books.

I would not even know where to go to find a book on "them." Or a definition of who "them" are.

I know it's popular to blame "them", it has always been so.

If you were inclined to change my mind then I would suggest you start with a definition of "them", what their characteristics are so that I can recognize a "them". Then include some examples of widely recognized and agreed to "thems." Names would be good. Consensus on what a gaggle "thems" would constitute would be great. Not just your list, but a widely held list.
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby onlooker » Wed 30 Dec 2015, 18:15:02

Newf, you can start with a clip from none other than former President John F. Kennedy on the vast and monolithic conspiracy. Here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhkjYJA ... Ey63Duidsw
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby Pops » Wed 30 Dec 2015, 18:52:50

Hey Newf Try "Twilight of The Elites" by Chris Hays.
If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide.
-- Abraham Lincoln
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby MonteQuest » Wed 30 Dec 2015, 19:00:45

Newfie wrote: I would not even know where to go to find a book on "them."


Funny...you found the link to my book, Madmen at the Helm. Covers them all by name. :roll:
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby jupiters_release » Wed 30 Dec 2015, 19:20:10

onlooker wrote:Newf, you can start with a clip from none other than former President John F. Kennedy on the vast and monolithic conspiracy. Here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhkjYJA ... Ey63Duidsw


This speech used to be online with the video of him giving it but it's been removed, probably censored, for years now.
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