[mos6507]

Come on you guys. You're slipping. Do I have to handle this every time?



There, done.

[JPL]

This is unfair; I think all true Americans should now stand and welcome their former President to this forum (grin).

JP

[truecougarblue]

Come on guys. The newbie might be sensitive. Give it a break okay?

OK, how's this:

That is a great idea. Lets get all our infrastructure switched over to coal in time to beat depletion. You go get the way back machine, set it for 1975, and we might just barely have enough time to get 'er done.

[cipi604]

According to some studies and sources there is over 300 years of coal reserves left just in the United States alone. So instead of economic hell and mass starvation why don't they turn coal into oil. The process of turning coal into oil does require a lot of energy, so why not use nuclear energy so our atmosphere doesn't get clogged up with carbon, it sure beats the other option of mass starvation and etc.

LOL

[Daniel_Plainview]

Welcome.

it sure beats the other option of mass starvation and etc.

When you say "and etc", could you elaborate? (the "etc" is the best part! )

[Schmuto]

Come on you guys. You're slipping. Do I have to handle this every time?



There, done.

Nice Mos.

[Sixstrings]

Nice job slapping around the newbie on his very first post, guys.

[truecougarblue]

Thanks, I've found coddling to be ineffective when dealing with idiots.

[Quinny]

Why mess around with the liquefaction. Just have steam cars. You could even re-use old engines if you laid a few tracks. You couldn't use pumps but instead of shovels we could have hoppers at filling stations.

[Tanada]

According to some studies and sources there is over 300 years of coal reserves left just in the United States alone. So instead of economic hell and mass starvation why don't they turn coal into oil. The process of turning coal into oil does require a lot of energy, so why not use nuclear energy so our atmosphere doesn't get clogged up with carbon, it sure beats the other option of mass starvation and etc.

Welcome to PO.com

Please be advised that no matter what statement you make or what data you present their are many people on here who will react nastily, especially if your statement is one of hope for a better future.

The problem with our future is mostly lack of leadership, yes we have the ability to build a fission based electric grid like the one used in France. Yes we have the ability to build cars that run on electricity for short trips. Yes we could convert coal into liquid fuels.

We lack the leadership and the will to do these things, therefore when we finally admit that oil has a limit and we have passed it the cost and difficulty we will run into in implementing those changes will be very large. The majority of posters on this website think they will be insurmountable and our civilization will collapse, so when you present hope they pounce like a pack of ravening wolves.

[rangerone314]

Please be advised that no matter what statement you make or what data you present their are many people on here who will react nastily, especially if your statement is one of hope for a better future.

The problem with our future is mostly lack of leadership, yes we have the ability to build a fission based electric grid like the one used in France. Yes we have the ability to build cars that run on electricity for short trips. Yes we could convert coal into liquid fuels.

We lack the leadership and the will to do these things, therefore when we finally admit that oil has a limit and we have passed it the cost and difficulty we will run into in implementing those changes will be very large. The majority of posters on this website think they will be insurmountable and our civilization will collapse, so when you present hope they pounce like a pack of ravening wolves.

Good points! Our cultural MO seems to be one of waiting until something reaches a crisis, and THEN reacting. World War II is a great example. Only Russia & England were not conquered by the Germans by the time the US jumped in. AND it took a surprise attack by the Japanese that killed thousands of Americans at Pearl Harbor to get us into the ring. And at least then, we seemed able to move a lot faster than we do now. From 1941 to 1945 (FOUR years) we boosted our military so that by the end of the war, 16 million Americans had served in the military. Now we have trouble forming 1/10 of a million Iraqis in SIX years into an army. It seems to take years to get a small amount of work done on a frickin highway.

We're going to do what we always do, which is wait until the crisis has descended upon us, and then it will be too late.

Winston Churchill said "You can always count on Americans to do the right thing. After they've exhausted all the other possibilities."

The reason some people are doomers is that they understand what the standard M.O. IS and realize that it will not be sufficient this time around with peak oil.

Or as I put it, fill one hand up with $**T and the other with hopes fulfilled, and see which hand fills up faster.

[Battle_Scarred_Galactico]

Coal to oil will be done no doubt, but the general public won't see a drop of it.

Look at some historical examples and you'll see its' always the last resort of desperate Governments.

[hillsidedigger]

Coal to oil would release much CO2 but it seems many do not realize that will lead us further down the road to major problems.

[Arthur75]

Just for the record, and using the data there :

http://www.newsmax.com/hostetter/Coal_L ... 19599.html

Coherent with wikipedia for US coal reserves, and using 20 millions barrel per day for today US oil consumption

it gives :

mbpd: 20000000
barrel per ton of coal: 1,25
coal reserves (tons) : 2,75E+11
barrel equivalent : 3,4375E+11
days in CTL : 17187,5
years in CTL : 47,0890411

So 47 years, not that much !

[rangerone314]

What would the cost per bbl be for making it from coal? And what would be the expected price of gasoline per gallon?

I think the rough price of coal per ton is about $42, which would mean just the raw material cost for coal liquefaction would be at least $33/bbl... (assuming you get 1.25 bbl per ton of coal)

If oil is now $67/bbl and we don't see a major push for that among corporations, perhaps we can infer that the cost of processing is greater than raw material cost. The question is, how much?

[Arthur75]

If oil is now $67/bbl and we don't see a major push for that among corporations, perhaps we can infer that the cost of processing is greater than raw material cost. The question is, how much?

I'm not sure, at $70 a barrel I think it may very well make economic sense, and South Africa is still producing some from the link, also China is building a few plants.

But 1.25 barrel per ton is really not much ..., not even going in the CO2 aspect

[mattduke]

Coal stocks have rocketed off the lows.

[Tanada]

Just for the record, and using the data there :

http://www.newsmax.com/hostetter/Coal_L ... 19599.html

Coherent with wikipedia for US coal reserves, and using 20 millions barrel per day for today US oil consumption

it gives :

mbpd: 20000000
barrel per ton of coal: 1,25
coal reserves (tons) : 2,75E+11
barrel equivalent : 3,4375E+11
days in CTL : 17187,5
years in CTL : 47,0890411

So 47 years, not that much !

A bit misleading to not count the domestic oil production and the natural gas liquids production so that you can make it seem even worse than it is. Just saying.

[energyhoggin]

A simple calculation leads to US coal reserves representing 40 years of today US petroleum consumption (so using coal for nothing else but liquid fuel production).
Coal liquefaction isn't a very efficient process at all energy wise.

sure if we drop every other source of energy there is and just rely on coal but thats not the way it would happen, when the price of oil gets high enough then we will see coal liquefaction along with other methods and sources being utilized along with conventional oil. I know all these efforts will not last long but thats life, im pretty sure when we took the first drop of oil from the earth they were not thinking "well crap we are running out" 40 years of coal will give us ample amount of time to adjust to other methods or a different way of living