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Climate Chaos Is Here Pt. 3

Re: Climate Chaos Is Here Pt. 3

Unread postby pstarr » Tue 15 Nov 2016, 18:21:06

kiwichick wrote:meanwhile in the real world NASA has just posted the figures for October.....2nd warmest on record and locking in 2016 as warmest year on record
However, according to NASA "“Enhanced carbon uptake by the biosphere to date has slowed the growth rate of atmospheric CO2 and our results [suggest] uptake has been especially strong recently,"

kiwichick wrote:and global sea ice is at lowest level on record .....by a huge margin
whereas global land ice is at its highest level on record, by a huge amount.

kiwichick wrote:and refugees continue to try to move away from areas of the planet that are increasingly difficult for human life

Drought, overpopulation, competition for depleting resources minerals, petroleum, precious metals, arable land/potable water, concentration of wealth, WAR and PEAK OIL couldn't possibly be a cause? Nah. It has to be climate chaos or we all will become republicans lol
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Re: Climate Chaos Is Here Pt. 3

Unread postby litesong » Tue 15 Nov 2016, 20:08:21

Cid_Yama wrote:... trollishly trying to wear people down.


Compared to the major trolls on the conservative global warming website I was on, pstarr doesn't even have baby teeth. pstarr's answer to AGW is a Bible passage. Yeah, still no baby teeth at all!
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Re: Climate Chaos Is Here Pt. 3

Unread postby kiwichick » Tue 15 Nov 2016, 21:51:13

@ pstarr.....AGW is directly linked to drought, reduced arable land, lack of water and indirectly linked to over population.....via increased child mortality leading to lack of confidence in children surviving to adulthood

War and resource depletion could also be linked.....for example severe drought leading to starvation and physical conflict over food

Of course it is also difficult to determine how many people are moving due to perceived economic advantages that might be available to them in other countries; that's obviously at least part of the motivation......on the other hand my partner has taken a cut in his salary moving back to New Zealand from Australia but we don't have to cope with 40 degree C heat in the summer

people will have a range of reasons to leave their home country, including political , religious and safety issues, let alone economic and educational
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Re: Climate Chaos Is Here Pt. 3

Unread postby ralfy » Wed 16 Nov 2016, 18:46:01

pstarr wrote:Cid, you and I see the world very differently. I am not trying to wear anyone down, rather I am trying to make light of a serious situation.

I was scared and depressed for a decade about global warming. I had never bothered to really study it, took the matter by faith and assumed mankind was fucking the planet up. I assumed people with big cars were evil. I assumed I was on the moral high ground for not doing that. Well . . . suffice it to say . . . I was an arrogant asshole. Like some on these GW threads are still.

We are not fuckng the planet up. We are overpopulated, have done great damage to ecosystems worldwide, and many will die soon . . . but not as a result of GW. I do not like to see the GW fanatics trying to scare people in the face of contrary evidence.

If you haven't noticed, I try to keep my dismissive wise-ass posts in the doomer/hysterical GW threads. Like this on. Climate chaos IS NOT HERE. It's raining out and rather nice. :)


GW is also connected to damage of ecosystems and is a result of pollution. The reason why it should be taken seriously is not because we know enough about it but because of the opposite. It also has an amplifying effect on other crises, such that death and suffering will be significant not because of overpopulation, environmental damage, or global warming, but all three.
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Re: Climate Chaos Is Here Pt. 3

Unread postby pstarr » Wed 16 Nov 2016, 18:53:57

You are not going to convince me ralfy. Our rape of the planet turns our to be a lot more prosaic, easier to understand than fancy theory and theoretical GW.

The reefs are damaged by simple pollution, notably the shit we dump into our waterways. Damaged aquifers? Irrigation theft for crops to feed people. Forest infestations, die-offs and pest epidemics? Over harvesting of trees, erosion of watersheds, loss of soil and nutrients. Species extinction? Habitat loss, cattle, farms, people, roads. I could go on. :x
There's nothing deeper than love. In fairy tales, the princesses kiss the frogs, and the frogs become princes. In real life,the princesses kiss princes, and the princes turn into frogs

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― Maya Angelou
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Re: Climate Chaos Is Here Pt. 3

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Wed 16 Nov 2016, 22:41:53

You really DON"T understand the science do you. There isn't a grand theory to NOT believe in. There are thousands and thousands of studies conducted on everything under the sun. All of them showing how each piece has been affected by a warming planet and confirming each others research.

The term is preponderance of evidence. The preponderance of evidence = warming planet.

You are engaging in a bifurcation fallacy.
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The level of injustice and wrong you endure is directly determined by how much you quietly submit to. Even to the point of extinction.
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Re: Climate Chaos Is Here Pt. 3

Unread postby kiwichick » Wed 16 Nov 2016, 23:11:37

@ cid....is that what you call it.......I thought he/it was just taking too many drugs......
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Re: Climate Chaos Is Here Pt. 3

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Wed 16 Nov 2016, 23:16:01

All of them showing how each piece has been affected by a warming planet and confirming each others research.


OK that is a load of complete and utter BS. There are lots of studies that disagree with one another and literally scores of Discussions in Journals that point out errors in various published research. You just have to read the research without a confirmatory bias. Or better yet get your information from the actual papers rather than the press releases. :roll:
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Re: Climate Chaos Is Here Pt. 3

Unread postby pstarr » Thu 17 Nov 2016, 01:41:35

Nice agreeing with you rock :) It's been a long time I was stuck in the alarmist fold.
There's nothing deeper than love. In fairy tales, the princesses kiss the frogs, and the frogs become princes. In real life,the princesses kiss princes, and the princes turn into frogs

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Re: Climate Chaos Is Here Pt. 3

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Thu 17 Nov 2016, 04:33:58

Blah, Blah, Blah. You chose to distort and misrepresent what was said, taking it out of context and sidestepping the intended point. There is NO grand theory of climate change to NOT believe it.

The Preponderance of Evidence from thousands of studies from hundreds of different fields confirm the planet is warming, that warming is detrimental to the biosphere, and the climate is no longer the stable climate that agriculture developed in. Look up Preponderance if that word is giving you trouble.


If this were a criminal case, the level of confidence would easily meet the criteria for Beyond a Reasonable Doubt since the level of confidence on the preponderance of evidence is above the 90th percentile. (actually > 99%)

'So take your crap and shove it. It ain't working here no more'.
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst and provide for it." - Patrick Henry

The level of injustice and wrong you endure is directly determined by how much you quietly submit to. Even to the point of extinction.
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Re: Climate Chaos Is Here Pt. 3

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Thu 17 Nov 2016, 05:02:46

Image
KaiserJeep 2.0, Neural Subnode 0010 0000 0001 0110 - 1001 0011 0011, Tertiary Adjunct to Unimatrix 0000 0000 0001

Resistance is Futile, YOU will be Assimilated.

Warning: Messages timestamped before April 1, 2016, 06:00 PST were posted by the unmodified human KaiserJeep 1.0
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Re: Climate Chaos Is Here Pt. 3

Unread postby onlooker » Thu 17 Nov 2016, 05:20:52

"OK that is a load of complete and utter BS. There are lots of studies that disagree with one another and literally scores of Discussions in Journals that point out errors in various published research. You just have to read the research without a confirmatory bias. Or better yet get your information from the actual papers rather than the press releases."
Kiwi you can call it also cognitive dissonance. He is appealing to Science yet does NOT acknowledge what its saying
cog·ni·tive dis·so·nance
nounPsychology
noun: cognitive dissonance

the state of having inconsistent thoughts, beliefs, or attitudes, especially as relating to behavioral decisions and attitude change.
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Re: Climate Chaos Is Here Pt. 3

Unread postby ralfy » Thu 17 Nov 2016, 10:35:57

pstarr wrote:You are not going to convince me ralfy. Our rape of the planet turns our to be a lot more prosaic, easier to understand than fancy theory and theoretical GW.

The reefs are damaged by simple pollution, notably the shit we dump into our waterways. Damaged aquifers? Irrigation theft for crops to feed people. Forest infestations, die-offs and pest epidemics? Over harvesting of trees, erosion of watersheds, loss of soil and nutrients. Species extinction? Habitat loss, cattle, farms, people, roads. I could go on. :x


You will find more details about the impact of global warming on ecosystems in the IPCC fifth assessment report, the NAS final report, and other sources. It may be more difficult to understand for you, but you should not use that as an excuse for ignoring this problem.

Also, the activities you mentioned involve fossil fuels and other materials that are connected to global warming.
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Re: Climate Chaos Is Here Pt. 3

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Thu 17 Nov 2016, 11:26:50

The Preponderance of Evidence from thousands of studies from hundreds of different fields confirm the planet is warming, that warming is detrimental to the biosphere, and the climate is no longer the stable climate that agriculture developed in. Look up Preponderance if that word is giving you trouble.


If this were a criminal case, the level of confidence would easily meet the criteria for Beyond a Reasonable Doubt since the level of confidence on the preponderance of evidence is above the 90th percentile. (actually > 99%)

'So take your crap and shove it. It ain't working here no more'.


Once again....BS. Science is not decided by voting or popular opinion. Regardless of what any "consensus" might claim any one paper that points to inconsistencies, errors in interpretation or conflicting evidence completely invalidates that "consensus" view. That is the manner in which science has always worked.

Einstein said
"No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong."
which means essentially that a "consensus" is of little matter in the face of conflicting evidence.

Richard Feynman's famous lecture pointed out the same notion:

"In general, we look for a new law by the following process. First, we guess it (audience laughter), no, don’t laugh, that’s really true. Then we compute the consequences of the guess, to see what, if this is right, if this law we guess is right, to see what it would imply and then we compare the computation results to nature, or we say compare to experiment or experience, compare it directly with observations to see if it works.

If it disagrees with experiment, it’s wrong. In that simple statement is the key to science. It doesn’t make any difference how beautiful your guess is, it doesn’t matter how smart you are who made the guess, or what his name is… If it disagrees with experiment, it’s wrong. That’s all there is to it.”


In science it is completely incorrect to add up the number of papers that say "a" and compare it to the number of papers that say "it can't be a" and then come to the conclusion that it must be "a" because there were more "votes". Appealing to the political opinions of scientific societies is equally invalid in the face of conflicting published research.
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Re: Climate Chaos Is Here Pt. 3

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 17 Nov 2016, 13:28:01

I would like to remind posters that there is an entire stickied thread devoted to claims that CC is a hoax for denialists and pseudo-skeptics to voice their opinions on (I would never say 'to dump their garbage in' :) :) ), here: global-warming-climate-change-is-a-hoax-pt-7-t72350-380.html

Please in the future confines such claims to said thread. They are OT here.
Last edited by dohboi on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 13:33:18, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Climate Chaos Is Here Pt. 3

Unread postby jedrider » Thu 17 Nov 2016, 13:30:37

KaiserJeep wrote:Image


Yes, that will be an ad for an Anchorage vacation. Unfortunately, that's the problem.
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Re: Climate Chaos Is Here Pt. 3

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Thu 17 Nov 2016, 14:01:06

Please in the future confines such claims to said thread. They are OT here.


actually it is not. If the title of the thread is "climate chaos is here" any evidence or argument to the point that climate chaos is not here is relevant.

And you can't have it both ways....stop posting on the CC is a hoax thread. Based on your argument here all of your posts there are completely off topic.
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Re: Climate Chaos Is Here Pt. 3

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 17 Nov 2016, 14:11:11

You're not addressing the specific thread's title. You are rejecting science.

Feel free to do so, but on your own thread.

Meanwhile, are we not renewing the "Runaway CC" thread?

If so, can we at least have a stickied thread devoted to feedbacks?

In the meantime: http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2016/11 ... 478197167/

Soil could become significant CO2 contributor in near future
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Re: Climate Chaos Is Here Pt. 3

Unread postby GHung » Thu 17 Nov 2016, 14:11:27

rockdoc123 wrote:
Please in the future confines such claims to said thread. They are OT here.


actually it is not. If the title of the thread is "climate chaos is here" any evidence or argument to the point that climate chaos is not here is relevant.


Gosh, rockdoc, according to your many arguments regarding the science, you can't claim whether or not "climate chaos is not here". Like KJ, Your take seems to be that it hasn't been proven either way, and can't be proven. WTF? As you said above, "... equally invalid in the face of conflicting published research." Works both ways, eh?
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Re: Climate Chaos Is Here Pt. 3

Unread postby onlooker » Thu 17 Nov 2016, 14:22:09

i think rockdoc is right any claims of climate chaos is not here are valid to Deniers. Like the ones sponsored by Exxon for years even while knowing the truth. Perhaps your referring to those illustrious scientific treatises doc. Or widely known papers by lackeys and shills of the government and corporations. No, as Dohboi said you have your thread to deny the unassailable, i hope you and others deniers go there. Otherwise, lets not feed the trolls.
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