[Withnail]

UK MP's banned from entering Hong Kong to stir up trouble.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/n ... -hong-kong


UK politicians refused entry to Hong Kong
China bars House of Commons delegation as pro-democracy protesters confront police on streets of former colony

A committee of British MPs has been warned that they will be denied entry to Hong Kong if they try to go ahead with a planned visit to the former British colony.

Sir Richard Ottaway, the chairman of the Commons foreign affairs committee, said he and his fellow committee members had been told by the Chinese embassy they would be turned back if they tried to enter.

The MPs had been planning to visit Hong Kong as part of an inquiry into the colony’s relations with the UK 30 years after the joint declaration that led to the handover to China in 1997.

The move comes amid renewed protests by pro-democracy campaigners in Hong Kong, who have been demanding the right to choose their own leaders without interference from Beijing.

Ottoway accused the Chinese authorities of acting in an “overtly confrontational manner” and said that he would be pressing for an emergency Commons debate.

“I have been informed by the Chinese embassy that if we attempt to travel to Hong Kong we will be refused entry,” he said.

[dissident]

Shame, the demonstrators won't be getting any cookies.

[Sixstrings]

Shame, the demonstrators won't be getting any cookies.

They don't want cookies, they want the democracy that was promised to them and agreed to when the colony was handed over.

They simply want to elect their regional government in totally open free elections, rather than a slate of Beijing-approved candidates.

[Withnail]

Shame, the demonstrators won't be getting any cookies.

They don't want cookies, they want the democracy that was promised to them and agreed to when the colony was handed over.

They simply want to elect their regional government in totally open free elections, rather than a slate of Beijing-approved candidates.

Promised by who?

Any agreement signed by China and the UK about what would happen in Hong Kong is void and was always void, since the UK never legitimately owned Hong Kong.

The agreement is no more than waste paper. The UK is not a party to what happens now on what was always Chinese territory.

[Sixstrings]

Promised by who?

From what I've read, my understanding is that the Chinese gov promised this within a certain number of years and that was part of the handover deal.

If China had not promised it, Britain may not have handed the colony over.

At the time, China said a lot of things and did all these assurances, so that the handover would go through, well now it is time for the elections that were promised but Beijing says no.

Withnail -- what do you think is RIGHT? Forget Beijing and London, what is the right thing?

Do these people not have a right to real elections and to just elect their city government? Is that not the right thing?

[Plantagenet]

the Chinese gov promised .... that was part of the handover deal.

Right-O.

And the Russian government promised to protect the territorial integrity of Ukraine.

And the US made a whole bunch of promises to native Americans.

Promises promises.

It makes my heart sick
when I remember all the good words
and the broken promises.
Chief Joseph

[Sixstrings]

the Chinese gov promised .... that was part of the handover deal.

Right-O.

And the Russian government promised to protect the territorial integrity of Ukraine.

And the US made a whole bunch of promises to native Americans.

* Broken promises to native americans was in the 19th century, and USA has since evolved. It's Russia and China that have emerged as powers on the world stage -- BUT 19TH CENTURY WORLD POWERS, IT'S HOW THEY ACT.

* This Hong Kong broken promise is worse than the Budapest Memorandum.

I *remember* this Hong Kong handover. UK did not, in fact, HAVE to hand it over. UK did the right thing and insisted on assurances that their British subjects would be treated right and democratically-governed people would not just be thrown into the maw of totalitarianism.

It's not right, Plant. It wouldn't have been right to give the Falkland Islanders up to a fascist Spanish Argentina.

And UK WOULD NEVER have done this handover if they had known this would happen, the Chinese promised everyone and now they've renigged on it -- it's not right.

And I know you agree with me, I'm just making a point.

[Plantagenet]

UK WOULD NEVER have done this handover if they had known this would happen, it's not right.

The UK divested themselves of every major colony they had. Churchill wanted to preserve the Empire, but once he was booted out at the end of WWII it was government policy in London under Labour to get rid of the colonies and end the Empire. Its not just Hong Kong where things haven't worked out as hoped---some rather terrible things happened in former British colonies across Africa, and the bloody partition of India into Moslem Pakistan and Hindu India after the Brits pulled out resulted in at least a million dead.

Hong Kong is a special case because the lease was ending and the Brits had to go, but the same mentality prevailed. Britain wanted out, wished them all good luck, and said bye bye!

And I know you agree with me, I'm just making a point.

I really like your point of view and I always read your posts. I just had to kvetch about this one----.

[Subjectivist]

UK MP's banned from entering Hong Kong to stir up trouble.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/n ... -hong-kong


UK politicians refused entry to Hong Kong
China bars House of Commons delegation as pro-democracy protesters confront police on streets of former colony

A committee of British MPs has been warned that they will be denied entry to Hong Kong if they try to go ahead with a planned visit to the former British colony.

Sir Richard Ottaway, the chairman of the Commons foreign affairs committee, said he and his fellow committee members had been told by the Chinese embassy they would be turned back if they tried to enter.

The MPs had been planning to visit Hong Kong as part of an inquiry into the colony’s relations with the UK 30 years after the joint declaration that led to the handover to China in 1997.

The move comes amid renewed protests by pro-democracy campaigners in Hong Kong, who have been demanding the right to choose their own leaders without interference from Beijing.

Ottoway accused the Chinese authorities of acting in an “overtly confrontational manner” and said that he would be pressing for an emergency Commons debate.

“I have been informed by the Chinese embassy that if we attempt to travel to Hong Kong we will be refused entry,” he said.

Say what? I know I am not the brightest bulb on the Christmas Tree, but when did 2014-1997 start equalling 30?

[SeaGypsy]

Was 1984 when the accord of succession was signed. From memory there is something about increasing electoral independence towards universal suffrage for HK during 2017. The government is still saying it will stick to the 84 agreement.

[Sixstrings]

Was 1984 when the accord of succession was signed. From memory there is something about increasing electoral independence towards universal suffrage for HK during 2017. The government is still saying it will stick to the 84 agreement.

From the articles I read, the protesters say that there was a specific number of years by which the free elections were supposed to happen, and now it's time for that but Beijing says no.

Meanwhile, while we all stopped talking about Hong Kong, the demonstrations never stopped and have escalated to some violence:

Hong Kong Protesters Warned Not to Return After Clashes Disrupt Government




http://www.voanews.com/content/hong-kong-protests-close-down-government/2540636.html

I can't find it now, but there was another article that showed a Hong Kong cop in tennis shoes really beating the heck out of some protester, with a baton.

Hong Kong students on hunger strike want government to talk


Joshua Wong, the teenage face of Hong Kong's pro-democracy movement, places chair into a tent at the movement's main protest site in the Admiralty district of Hong Kong, on December 2, 2014 ©Johannes Eisele (AFP)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/afp/article-2856240/Joshua-Wong-two-HK-student-protesters-hunger-strike.html

(look at that, his name's Joshua, he has an English name for goodness sake. These aren't mainland Chinese, mainland Chinese are okay with how things are, Hong Kongers have a different history though and that was supposed to be respected. I don't think you can baton beat the democratic British heritage out of someone, can you?)

Hong Kong braces for more violence as frustrations boil
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/afp/article-2856540/Hong-Kong-braces-violence-frustrations-boil.html

What's sad is how young these protesters are, a lot of high school kids and teenagers. In tens of thousands. So what is the police going to do, just baton beat them all?

Where does it end? Beijing is staying out of it, but has told the administrator no there will not be free elections. So it's just up to him to handle it with the Hong Kong police.

Meanwhile there are Chinese PLA right in Hong Kong. Eventually this will boil over into chaos, and that's when the Peoples Liberation Army will do a Tiananmen Square. It could wind up horrible, tanks used against kids.

Hong Kong was given over to China with specific conditions. It was supposed to be "one China, two systems." China was supposed to respect that, but now they aren't anymore. And announcing that British diplomats will be denied entry is concerning.

The protesters are in the right, a lot of Hong Kongers never wanted handed over to China to start with, but they were given promises about elections and China should be living up to that.

All they want is to elect their own municipal government. These aren't mainland Chinese. These are Hong Kongers, they have a British heritage, they were promised democracy. You can't just expect them to be "okay" with how things are in China, anymore than you or me would be okay with that.

[Sixstrings]

Hong Kong student leader calls on democracy supporters to regroup

(Reuters) - Hong Kong student leader Joshua Wong urged pro-democracy protesters to regroup in the heart of the city on Tuesday, less than a day after he announced he would go on hunger strike to demand electoral reform.

Wong, 18, also urged the Hong Kong government to resume dialogue with students in the Chinese-controlled city a day after activists forced the temporary closure of government headquarters after clashing with police.

Protesters, who have occupied key streets for more than two months, have called on the city leader Leung Chun-ying to step down after Beijing in August ruled out a free choice of candidates for Hong Kong's next leader.

"This is not about withdrawing the National People's Congress decision made on August 31," Wong told reporters, referring to China's parliament. "We're asking the Hong Kong government to restart consultations on political reform."

Wong, who has been charged with obstructing court bailiffs during an operation to clear a protest camp in Mong Kok, across the harbor from Admiralty, is no stranger to protest movements.

Two years ago, with the help of secondary school activists calling themselves Scholarism, he forced the Hong Kong government to shelve plans to introduce a pro-China national education scheme in schools.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/02/us-hongkong-china-idUSKCN0JE0KI20141202

[Withnail]

And UK WOULD NEVER have done this handover if they had known this would happen, the Chinese promised everyone and now they've renigged on it -- it's not right.

Britain had no option but to hand stolen Chinese territory back to China, just as it had no option about India's independence.

If Britain had refused, China would have invaded and taken its territory back by force, and been entitled to do so, just as India invaded Goa.

The treaty is a worthless piece of paper. It was signed with a thief (Britain) which stole Hong Kong from China. Hong Kong is China and subject to Chinese rule.

Meanwhile, while we all stopped talking about Hong Kong, the demonstrations never stopped and have escalated to some violence:

Actually there are not many protesters these days, just crowds of a few hundred.

The movement is petering out.

[dissident]

And UK WOULD NEVER have done this handover if they had known this would happen, the Chinese promised everyone and now they've renigged on it -- it's not right.

Britain had no option but to hand stolen Chinese territory back to China, just as it had no option about India's independence.

If Britain had refused, China would have invaded and taken its territory back by force, and been entitled to do so, just as India invaded Goa.

The treaty is a worthless piece of paper. It was signed with a thief (Britain) which stole Hong Kong from China. Hong Kong is China and subject to Chinese rule.

Meanwhile, while we all stopped talking about Hong Kong, the demonstrations never stopped and have escalated to some violence:

Actually there are not many protesters these days, just crowds of a few hundred.

The movement is petering out.

The people of Hong Kong can breathe a sigh of relief now that their land is not going to be flushed down the toilet like Ukraine thanks to some rent-a-crowd coup theater.

[Peak_Yeast]

Now if US and UK had actually evolved in the positive way implied then Hawaii would be a soverein kingdom and the Chagos islanders wouldnt have been intimidated, threatened and thrown of their property in the most despicable game possible in order to make space for a US military base.

So - no. The US and UK has not evolved - except being better at disguising and keeping facts from the public. Many of the people controlling these nations deserve the death penalty and I would personally execute them if I had the possibility - after, of course, due process in a court of my own - exactly the way they do themselves. So they cant be unhappy with that.

I am very sorry to say that. I wish the nations were honorable and truthful - but nothing is further from the truth.

This is not to say that any other nations are better. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely - which is absolutely true.

[dorlomin]

Peak oil dot com is generally pro fascist, anti democratic. The buffoons round here seem to think being pro democracy is some kind of right wing thing.

[Sixstrings]

The buffoons round here seem to think being pro democracy is some kind of right wing thing.

Amen, Dor.

I find it hard to believe that some actually do not believe in democracy. Something so simple as a city getting to elect a town council and mayor, in free fair elections.

It's 2014.

Do some of you actually think kings and dictators are better? Are you insane? What year do you live in?

[SeaGypsy]

You just don't get the basic argument. You don't live in a real democracy, only think you do. In China the Party chooses candidates for elections, in the west the media chose them. The most likely next POTUS is the best fundraiser for one of the duopoly. This sham is only one step better than the one party fake democracy of places like China.

[dolanbaker]

in the west the media chose them

Or more correctly, the media's owners!