Car Ownership

[Mesuge]

Yep, it will be quite interesting to watch all those various adaptation strategies for NA gas pricing north of $5 a US Gallon (2011 inflation levels). Certainly, some people will try to carpool, some might try alt. route with slower avg. speeds, but ~90% commuters will be pressed pretty hard what to do next.

Now, the prevailing mood among the EU mandarins is that in no way will be allowed for national .gov to decrease the % VAT, so for some time you can count on the Europeans peons subsidizing your driving (via lower consumption), as they always done. But at some crises point though this will break apart for sure, and we get $10-20 a US Gallon (with no or reduced VAT).

[Pops]

Wow, Gas that's crazy.

What we are doing here in the US is crazy.

True, but then we're overtaxed already.

[GASMON]

Americans are stranded out in the 'burbs and most can't do anything but drive*. What is the average commute over there?

Totally depends, but as the UK is much smaller than the US people rarely have to drive too far. Plus, a lot of people commute via public transport. Of course, it's a different story for those stuck in rural areas.

Roryrules has a good point. A good rail & bus network exists in most urban areas of UK. I could get by possibly without a car, but the buses and trains are now privately run, expensive and increasingly overloaded. Yes, even in the UK, those in rural areas allready suffering due to high fuel prices & no alternative transport.

Another rising motoring cost is insurance - up 20% in one year. Young people are now effectivley uninsureable.

Gas

[Queaks]

I am guilty of buying a new car every three years. I like having a new one with all the toys.
I drive 35-40 miles one way workwise and like the comfort. I get 22 MPG and usually buy premium, fortunately its not a material cost compared to being late due to bad public transportation.

I admire those who go the public transportation route, but in the Detroit metro area that is not a reliable option (last time I tried, the bus just didn't come because the driver didn't show up that day, and arriving late cost me several hundred dollars in billable time..not worth the risk), plus the convenience of driving outweighs the cost here.

I plan to use the bike for short trips once I retire, but even then (looking for acreage to raise alpacas, and wife wants horses), a truck and car will be needed.

It's nice to talk about public transportation, but I only know one in my extended family that lived where it was possible and reliable. Of those who work for me most drive as far or farther.

One commutes from Flint at a bit over 70 miles one way. Can anyone but city dwellers really use public transportation? Certainly not here if you want to work.

But kudos to those that do

[Hoops_Mckann]

I think for me anyway, as I get older (near future-oh maybe by 2015), I will consider where I am living as much as WHAT I am driving. For me, low crime, mild weather and somewhat a bike friendly layout will be some of the criteria on my next city choice (current city is Kansas City).

Was reading that the VW polo gets something like 70-80 mpg on a 1.2L diesel, thats incredible. Not available here . Is it possible to import something like that? Is it a matter of legality or just that the local DMV won't title the car here in amerika?

[Pops]

I'm just about positive we'll never buy a new car, maybe a used small car of some sort after we wear some more paint off the newer truck (148k?).
We could get buy without a full size, V8 and 4wd and we probably will at some point but we pretty well need a pickup even if we only drive it once a month.

One thing not mentioned is renting. We rented a little Toy something or other and put about 3k miles on it to go see the kids over the holiday. The rent was less than the savings on gas and no worries about mechanical problems at all.

[AgentR11]

Can anyone but city dwellers really use public transportation? Certainly not here if you want to work.
But kudos to those that do

That's really the rub, public transportation is generally not available nor reliable in the far suburbs, and because its not reliable with decent schedule density, it never can catch on, even when tried. Its easy enough to use inside the city core, but even there it takes some getting used to and getting the hang of the routes; not to mention learning to tolerate sharing the space with lesser mortals! (lol jk).

[cephalotus]

I own a good bike and a bike that I converted to an electric bike.

I also have a flatrate ticket for the public transport which costs 35€/month

My girlfriend owns a small but quite new VW Polo, which we use every few weeks. Car sharing would also be an option here, but because she already owns the car the car ownership isn't to expensive, too.

City is Dresden, Germany.

[Loki]

I've got a 14 year old compact 2WD truck and a 7 year old dual sport 250cc motorcycle. I live out in the country, no public transportation. But I live where I work, so no commute. I drive <4000 miles per year, split roughly 50/50 between the truck and motorcycle.

I could ride my bicycle to town if I had to, but I absolutely hate bicycling, and the main route to town is along a VERY busy highway that I wouldn't feel comfortable riding on. There's also a pretty steep hill in between.

I lived without a car for most of my 20s. I lived in the city (Portland OR) and walked, bicycled, or bussed most places. Can't say as I miss the bus at all, the smell of urine and being crammed in like cattle. I finally got a car so I could get the hell out of the city every once in a while and hike, kayak, etc., but I rarely drove it to work.

Hopefully I won't ever live in the city again, so I'll be keeping my vehicles, which is fine with me, they're quite handy. There's enough wiggle room in my driving habits for me to be able to deal with significantly higher gas prices.

Just calculated, UK petrol at £1.34/litre works out at $11.48 per US gallon.

Wow

[SeaGypsy]

Just calculated, UK petrol at £1.34/litre works out at $11.48 per US gallon.

Na.

1 GBP = $1.60ish @ current rates.

3.8ish liter to a US Gallon

3.8/ 1.6 = $6.08

6.08/ 1.34 = $8.15


Try coffee with your calculator next time Gaz.

[GASMON]

Yes SG, your correct, maths never my strong point. Still bloody expensive though. This from 2 days ago, diesel hits £1.4305 / litre. (I'll let you do the math !!!)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17072925

and this wont improve the situation

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-17089953

Anyone's guess if Israel gets trigger happy !

Gas

[Beery1]

I don't own, nor have I ever driven a car (never learned because I see them as a great way to become poor). However, my wife does both. I keep trying to convince her to give the damned thing up (it's a waste of space and a HUGE waste of money), but she won't.

I own 5 bicycles (a touring bike and four cheap general purpose sport/thrasher bikes that I won't care about losing if bike theft becomes an issue), my wife and daughter own one bike each, and we have a Trail-a-Bike. So if/when the roads are blocked with people trying and failing to use their cars to get to wherever it's better if the shit really hits the fan, we'll be making a steady 10 miles per hour, which is better than the motorists will be getting. We can also haul about 8 bags or up to 200lbs of groceries or camping gear for the three of us. Motorists better be ready to haul that (or as much as they can) on their backs at 3mph max, once they figure out that no one's getting anywhere by car.

I live an hour's bike ride from the city and the same distance from local farms. In my opinion, anyone who doesn't is crazy, oil crisis or no oil crisis.

[AgentR11]

Beery wins the internets in my book!
+1

[careinke]

I would vote for a law that required a separate bike path be built alongside any new road construction or major road repair. Such a law would have numerous benefits, with a relatively small increase in work that was going to be done anyway.

I would even willingly give up some more right away on my property, if needed, to let it happen.

[AgentR11]

Do I get to club the first person that uses my 25mph bike path for walking?

[Beery1]

I would vote for a law that required a separate bike path be built alongside any new road construction or major road repair. Such a law would have numerous benefits, with a relatively small increase in work that was going to be done anyway.

I would have to vote against such a law. I am somewhat of a geek regarding cycling safety issues, and having studied numerous studies of real world collision and traffic data, I am aware that separate bike paths increase danger to cyclists at intersections over and above any benefit they provide. Cyclists need more integration into the road system, not more segregation, so I'm all for bike boulevards and sharrows, but not bike paths or bike lanes. Only when our use of the road is accepted (preferably happily, but grudgingly if necessary) will cyclists be as safe as we can be. In my view, the current trend of separating cyclists from our roads is a serious mistake that is leading to stagnant mode share and fear of the road (which is where most cycling must be done). The irony is that cycling is actually very safe - the lifetime risk of a cyclist being killed on a bike is half that of a motorist being killed in a car.

I would vote for a law that reminded motorists that bicycles have an equal right to the road, whether by using sharrow markings or by installing 'Bikes May Use Full Lane' signs. That, and a blanket 15mph reduction on all urban non-freeway roads of 40mph or over and lesser reductions for lower speeds, would vastly reduce road fatalities for cyclists, pedestrians and even motorists. This would save monetary costs as well as lives, since the current system strives to reduce speeds in cities by installing costly traffic light systems that enforce 25mph average speeds for 'traffic calming' on roads with nominal 40mph+ limits, which just strikes me as foolish. But apparently, reducing speed limits is unpopular, so traffic planners have to do it by spending many times more to do the same job using technology. And it doesn't work anyway, since drivers tend to jam their feet on the accelerator to get to the next light ASAP, which tends to make these roads even less safe.

[Loki]

Do I get to club the first person that uses my 25mph bike path for walking?

Don't get me started on bicyclists vs. pedestrians. What cars are to bikes, bikes are to pedestrians.

I walked for years around Portland and got real sick and tired of asshole bicyclists zooming down the sidewalks at top speed, utterly oblivious to those of us using our feet. One of these confrontations came to blows after I saw a bicyclists purposefully hit a girl who was walking ahead of me---I pushed him off his bike after he came straight towards me. He apologized when he realized he was messing with the wrong guy, mumbled something about having had a bad day, and got back on his bike and rode off.

Assholes come in all flavors.

[Beery1]

Assholes come in all flavors.

They do indeed. And the thing most cyclists don't know is that the road is actually safer for cyclists than the sidewalk. Sidewalk riding is actually between 2 and 12 times more dangerous - to the cyclist - than cycling on the road, because of how sidewalk riders interact with intersections. Here in Silver Spring, it's legal to ride on the sidewalk, but I never do it because I know how dangerous it is (and because pedestrians ought to be safe on the sidewalks). I believe it's also legal in Oregon (though maybe that law only applies to Portland - I don't recall the exact statute). Personally, I think it ought to be illegal everywhere, as it is in the UK.

[SeaGypsy]

Great posts Beery!
I'm currently living in Melbourne, (Australia's second biggest city) which is widely regarded as one of the most advanced in the world for cyclists.
It seems the thinking of planners has been influenced by the same thinking as Beery mentions here, with the trend now being towards dedicated cycle lanes/ cycle priority lanes/ cycle specific traffic lights, rather than more bike paths. This in a city which consistently for several years buys more bikes than cars.
Beery, I guess you might have seen the Australian Story piece on ABC about the drunk barrister who got away with destroying a cyclist on a bush road by disappearing and claiming to be too traumatized to stop or call the police? What a shocker!
There is a push on to make drivers more aware, more responsible, but so far its all carrot, very little stick. Cyclists die a lot with nobody held accountable.

[Beery1]

Thanks SeaGypsy.

I do recall in Ozzie that the cricketer Shane Warne got into a brouhaha with a cyclist a couple of weeks ago. Seems he tried to say that the cyclist started it, but a driver who saw the whole thing reckoned that it was just an old fashioned case of road rage on the part of Warnie, who apparently doesn't like cyclists using 'his' road. Sadly, such cases - and cases such as the one you mention - are far too common, and if truth were known, a lot of unsolved cases or cases attributed to 'accident' would probably be found to be caused by the current trend of hatred towards cyclists. I sometimes think it might be an idea to make hate crimes law apply to cyclists.

A lot of motorists seem to have a feeling of entitlement to the roads, which is ironic really, since today's motorists owe their vehicles and their roads to the humble cyclists who lobbied for good roads in the 1890s and who started automobile companies such as Ford, Rover, Peugeot, etc. Not many people know that, as Michael Caine might say.