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CA Drought Emergency Declared Pt 5

Re: CA Drought Emergency Declared Pt 5

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sun 01 Jan 2017, 10:50:19

jedrider wrote:How's the Sierra snowpack doing? From what I can tell, not all that great with rising temperatures that at best give you mostly a layer of ice on top. Last year there was some decent skiing to be had, and I'm hoping for the same this year.

Quite well actually with more expected this week. About 10 inches of meltwater equivalent which is ahead of the average years track.
http://snowpack.water-data.com/uppercolorado/index.php
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Re: CA Drought Emergency Declared Pt 5

Unread postby pstarr » Sun 08 Jan 2017, 02:27:50

These are Biblical Times. First the drought killed us all.
Image
Now our bodies and souls must be delivered to the Holy City (amen ) on a Tide of the Devil Water. OMG!
"There is the potential for excessive rain, combined with melting snow to trigger the worst flooding in northern California since 1997 and perhaps 1986," according to Senior Vice President of AccuWeather Enterprise Solutions Mike Smith.

The Terror :? 8) Someone somewhere is prone to have their shine dulled. The terror!
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Re: CA Drought Emergency Declared Pt 5

Unread postby jedrider » Sun 08 Jan 2017, 08:52:09

pstarr wrote:These are Biblical Times. First the drought killed us all.
Image
Now our bodies and souls must be delivered to the Holy City (amen ) on a Tide of the Devil Water. OMG!
"There is the potential for excessive rain, combined with melting snow to trigger the worst flooding in northern California since 1997 and perhaps 1986," according to Senior Vice President of AccuWeather Enterprise Solutions Mike Smith.

The Terror :? 8) Someone somewhere is prone to have their shine dulled. The terror!


No matter how bad the media makes this sound, it is GOOD to have so much rain, although I would not like to see whole towns submerged as in Virginia last year. I don't think that is a possibility except for perhaps some really short sighted development. I once lived next to a hillside that was about to collapse, between earthquakes and a lot of rain, but the home styles were mostly summer cottage style and one expects things like that to happen in that case.
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Re: CA Drought Emergency Declared Pt 5

Unread postby pstarr » Sun 08 Jan 2017, 12:41:03

"No matter how bad the media makes this sound, it is GOOD to have so much rain"

I watch this with bemusement. The media and their few toadies scientists at the weather service won't admit the drought is over. MSM needs to scare the consumer, it's good for rating and advertising. .

This flooding will replenish the aquifers. It's a good thing. This rainy season has been abundant and unusually early across the entire state. Los Angeles, the southern Central Valley (the last of the 'Exceptional Drought') have several months of abundant rain ahead, if history is any guide.

These cycles of rain and intense drought are normal in California, perhaps a bit intensified by global climate change, There was another very serious drought about 10 years ago. We adapted. Can't adapt to peak oil though. 8O That opportunity faded a decade ago. :cry:

No one accepted my bet.
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Re: CA Drought Emergency Declared Pt 5

Unread postby clif » Sun 08 Jan 2017, 13:04:48

The media and their few toadies scientists at the weather service won't admit the drought is over.


but they did;

The Drought is Over (in Parts of Northern California)

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/T ... 05945.html

part YOU leave out;

Central and Southern California remain in extreme or exceptional drought, while other areas in the interior portion of the state are in the process of recovery.
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Re: CA Drought Emergency Declared Pt 5

Unread postby Subjectivist » Sun 08 Jan 2017, 13:18:27

jedrider wrote:
pstarr wrote:These are Biblical Times. First the drought killed us all.
Image
Now our bodies and souls must be delivered to the Holy City (amen ) on a Tide of the Devil Water. OMG!
"There is the potential for excessive rain, combined with melting snow to trigger the worst flooding in northern California since 1997 and perhaps 1986," according to Senior Vice President of AccuWeather Enterprise Solutions Mike Smith.

The Terror :? 8) Someone somewhere is prone to have their shine dulled. The terror!


No matter how bad the media makes this sound, it is GOOD to have so much rain, although I would not like to see whole towns submerged as in Virginia last year. I don't think that is a possibility except for perhaps some really short sighted development. I once lived next to a hillside that was about to collapse, between earthquakes and a lot of rain, but the home styles were mostly summer cottage style and one expects things like that to happen in that case.


How are reservoir levels now? To me those are evidence one way or the other if the drought is still in controll of the weather.
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Re: CA Drought Emergency Declared Pt 5

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 08 Jan 2017, 13:22:04

Good points, clif and Sub. Good that some areas are getting rain. Bad about the flooding.

This is, in fact, exactly the predicted pattern for many areas...long term drought, then catastrophic flooding.

Bad as both have been they are merely pale shadows of how bad both extremes will become.
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Re: CA Drought Emergency Declared Pt 5

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sun 08 Jan 2017, 13:50:25

Subjectivist wrote:

How are reservoir levels now? To me those are evidence one way or the other if the drought is still in controll of the weather.

Pretty good for the date but it will take a week or more for the rain to drain into them and hopefully the snowpack up in the mountains will take until July to fully melt.
http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cdecapp/resapp ... ain.action
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Re: CA Drought Emergency Declared Pt 5

Unread postby jedrider » Sun 08 Jan 2017, 14:14:54

The aquifers were probably heavily pumped and will remain in a state of decline.

The central state needed this the most is my understanding. Will the forests be restored by this? Maybe not, as the heat alone is probably damaging and then the long periods of drought years is probably then too much for them.
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Re: CA Drought Emergency Declared Pt 5

Unread postby pstarr » Sun 08 Jan 2017, 14:20:22

dohboi wrote:Good points, clif and Sub. Good that some areas are getting rain. Bad about the flooding.

This is, in fact, exactly the predicted pattern for many areas...long term drought, then catastrophic flooding.

We've have two long-term droughts in the last dozen years. Each lasted three years or so, and killed no one, and destroyed no agriculture capacity. Tell me your kale and tofu shipments have not been delayed :x ? Must be those big storms . . . back east.

dohboi wrote:Bad as both have been they are merely pale shadows of how bad both extremes will become.

Oh yeah? Pale shadows indeed lol
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Re: CA Drought Emergency Declared Pt 5

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 08 Jan 2017, 18:44:52

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... tastrophe/

California Megaflood: Lessons from a Forgotten Catastrophe:

A 43-day storm that began in December 1861 put central and southern California underwater for up to six months..
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Re: CA Drought Emergency Declared Pt 5

Unread postby pstarr » Sun 08 Jan 2017, 20:11:09

dohboi wrote:https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/atmospheric-rivers-california-megaflood-lessons-from-forgotten-catastrophe/

California Megaflood: Lessons from a Forgotten Catastrophe:

A 43-day storm that began in December 1861 put central and southern California underwater for up to six months..

Bring that over to your flood thread. This one is over.

As a parting shot: not one person died from the drought. And only a handful of wells went dry. Likewise . . . this incredible river of rain will kill no one. And have little or no effect on our agriculture industry.

doh, you'd better be nice hereafter, stop insulting us, or we will put a major break on your kale and tofu deliveries.
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Re: CA Drought Emergency Declared Pt 5

Unread postby hvacman » Mon 09 Jan 2017, 13:02:07

24 people and 1000's of livestock died in this more-recent atmospheric river that hit our backyard in 1964.

https://www.savetheredwoods.org/blog/wo ... mas-flood/
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Re: CA Drought Emergency Declared Pt 5

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Mon 09 Jan 2017, 13:52:11

possibly the biggest disaster due to heavy rains is the toppling of a very famous natural tourist attraction:

The Calaveras Big Trees Association posted a heartfelt tribute to the giant tree on Facebook: The Pioneer Cabin tree has fallen! This iconic and still living tree - the tunnel tree - enchanted many visitors. The storm was just too much for it.


I think I've driven through the tunnel tree at least three times over the years. One could argue it shouldn't have had a tunnel built through it but that was done in the 1880's. Interestingly enough it was still living as opposed to a similar tree which was tunneled through in Yosemite.
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Re: CA Drought Emergency Declared Pt 5

Unread postby pstarr » Mon 09 Jan 2017, 14:30:41

hvacman wrote:24 people and 1000's of livestock died in this more-recent atmospheric river that hit our backyard in 1964.

https://www.savetheredwoods.org/blog/wo ... mas-flood/

Roadside plaques are all that is left of several lumber towns here in Humboldt.

That industry reaped what they sowed. Healthy forests absorb rain, strip mined mountain sides wash away. Finally folks began to listen to the environmentalists. So we still have a tiny remnant redwood industry here. All the old-growth is gone.
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Re: CA Drought Emergency Declared Pt 5

Unread postby hvacman » Mon 09 Jan 2017, 18:08:08

pstarr wrote:
hvacman wrote:24 people and 1000's of livestock died in this more-recent atmospheric river that hit our backyard in 1964.

https://www.savetheredwoods.org/blog/wo ... mas-flood/

Roadside plaques are all that is left of several lumber towns here in Humboldt.

That industry reaped what they sowed. Healthy forests absorb rain, strip mined mountain sides wash away. Finally folks began to listen to the environmentalists. So we still have a tiny remnant redwood industry here. All the old-growth is gone.


The timber industry definitely wreaked havoc on the North Coast's mountains, but there's never been a forest that could handle the triple-whammy that hit Humboldt in 1964. 4 feet of snow had built up in the upper reaches of the Eel's watershed, then the mother of all pineapple expresses hit it with 60 degree F weather and 30" of rain in 3 days. It all melted - 700,000 cubic-feet/second (as much flow as the Mississippi River) of rain and snow-melt plunging through the Eel's narrow channel that looks like a dry creek in the summer.

There is a marker heading south along Hwy 101 near Salmon Creek that marks the 1964 flood high water mark. It is about 10' above the roadway and the roadway is 50' above the normal river channel.
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Re: CA Drought Emergency Declared Pt 5

Unread postby pstarr » Mon 09 Jan 2017, 19:05:44

hvac, what don't you get? The timber industry exposed and dried the raw earth, made entire steep mountains bare. Washed away to the ocean. The water ran off, silted the streams and rivers. Rose the water table, and washed millions of years of nutrients away. As so phosphorus will likely never return. Forever sick forests.

Neither heat nor drought will be our downfall. Greed reed and stupidity is the cause.
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Re: CA Drought Emergency Declared Pt 5

Unread postby hvacman » Wed 11 Jan 2017, 13:25:50

pstarr wrote:hvac, what don't you get? The timber industry exposed and dried the raw earth, made entire steep mountains bare. Washed away to the ocean. The water ran off, silted the streams and rivers. Rose the water table, and washed millions of years of nutrients away. As so phosphorus will likely never return. Forever sick forests.

Neither heat nor drought will be our downfall. Greed reed and stupidity is the cause.


What don't I get? I lived from 1978-1992 on 40 acres of mountain side in the Van Duzen River watershed between Bridgeville and Dinsmore. Land that had been heavily logged in the early 60's. Stripped of trees. And I heard the stories of the Earth First!er's who stormed into Humboldt County in 1990, lecturing me of the TOTAL devastation of ALL the logged-over land such as what I lived on - that all the top soil was now in the creeks, the sickly forests that will NEVER recover, etc.

But the land they (and you) described was not the land I walked every day. I saw enormous resiliency in the land. Though not re-seeded at all after the logging, the logged-over land was awash with madrone, douglas fir, tanoak, black and white oak. The soil was covered with a thick mulch of rotting oak leaves and rapidly recovering what might have been lost from the few years it was uncovered after the logging. Deer, bobcats, mountain lions, black bears all around. A peregrine falcon next just a mile from my land. By the time I left in 1992, it was hard to find the old stumps among the trees.

When I google earth my old homestead now, I have to cry. Not the forest damage - it's the massive earth cuts and fills made in steep hills to construct unpermitted industrial "growhouses", large parking lots, and material storage areas on top of what were once meadows filtering runoff flowing down into the Van Duzen. No erosion control evident. Erodable cuts that make the skid roads built to log the land 50 years ago pale in comparison. And I see it on my old neighbors' lands and throughout the region. Large-scale development in land that begs to be walked softly on.

You wanna know land abuse? What Maxxam did to the lower reaches of the Van Duzen watershed was nothing compared to what the pot "farmers" are doing now. Talk about great greed and stupidity!!
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Re: CA Drought Emergency Declared Pt 5

Unread postby dohboi » Sat 14 Jan 2017, 13:42:26

Quite a contrast between last week's and this week's drought monitor map for CA:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xaw0oDqDFlY
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Re: CA Drought Emergency Declared Pt 5

Unread postby pstarr » Sat 14 Jan 2017, 16:48:49

hvacman wrote:
pstarr wrote:hvac, what don't you get? The timber industry exposed and dried the raw earth, made entire steep mountains bare. Washed away to the ocean. The water ran off, silted the streams and rivers. Rose the water table, and washed millions of years of nutrients away. As so phosphorus will likely never return. Forever sick forests.

Neither heat nor drought will be our downfall. Greed reed and stupidity is the cause.


What don't I get? I lived from 1978-1992 on 40 acres of mountain side in the Van Duzen River watershed between Bridgeville and Dinsmore. Land that had been heavily logged in the early 60's. Stripped of trees. And I heard the stories of the Earth First!er's who stormed into Humboldt County in 1990, lecturing me of the TOTAL devastation of ALL the logged-over land such as what I lived on - that all the top soil was now in the creeks, the sickly forests that will NEVER recover, etc.

But the land they (and you) described was not the land I walked every day. I saw enormous resiliency in the land. Though not re-seeded at all after the logging, the logged-over land was awash with madrone, douglas fir, tanoak, black and white oak. The soil was covered with a thick mulch of rotting oak leaves and rapidly recovering what might have been lost from the few years it was uncovered after the logging. Deer, bobcats, mountain lions, black bears all around. A peregrine falcon next just a mile from my land. By the time I left in 1992, it was hard to find the old stumps among the trees.

When I google earth my old homestead now, I have to cry. Not the forest damage - it's the massive earth cuts and fills made in steep hills to construct unpermitted industrial "growhouses", large parking lots, and material storage areas on top of what were once meadows filtering runoff flowing down into the Van Duzen. No erosion control evident. Erodable cuts that make the skid roads built to log the land 50 years ago pale in comparison. And I see it on my old neighbors' lands and throughout the region. Large-scale development in land that begs to be walked softly on.

You wanna know land abuse? What Maxxam did to the lower reaches of the Van Duzen watershed was nothing compared to what the pot "farmers" are doing now. Talk about great greed and stupidity!!


I was referring to the 1964 floods. That's before those damn EPA commies instituted their damn land grab. Gave the best to their wealth liberal buddies so they could build commie zen centers in the mountains. :x lol Now it's the pot farmers. But the whole thing is changing, with legalizatoin. A friend is an environmental inspector for the new legalization program. It will be a great program :)

Incidentally I got arrested numerous times demonstrating against against Maxxam and Horowitz in the early 1990's. The bastard had already clearcutted 200 acres of the last privately held old growth. The Headwaters Forest Preserve saved the rest, otherwise Horowitz would have taken it all
The Headwaters Forest Reserve is a group of old growth coast redwood (Sequoia sempervirens) groves, comprising about 7,472 acres (30.24 km2), managed by the Bureau of Land Management as part of the National Landscape Conservation System. Located in the Northern California coastal forests ecoregion near Humboldt Bay of the U.S. state of California, most of it was owned by the now defunct Pacific Lumber Company, which was owned by Charles Hurwitz and Maxxam Inc, as the result of a hostile takeover in 1985. Since that time the Headwaters Forest has been the site of many tree sits and anti-logging demonstrations, which ensued after Maxxam changed generations-old policies of sustained-yield logging at Pacific Lumber Company with clearcutting.[citation needed]


Oh, did I mention, that great tragic California Drought of all times is over.
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