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Arctic Sea Ice 2017 Pt. 1

Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2017 Pt. 1

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Sat 03 Jun 2017, 06:45:54

Look at your source. You might as well have posted from WUWT.

Greenland has been losing ice all winter, temperatures are above freezing in the Arctic, let alone above normal, PIOMAS shows volume loss to be at least a month ahead of any year, and the only thing they got right was extent, which will all melt out rapidly, as it's in an area that melts out totally every year, early.
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst and provide for it." - Patrick Henry

The level of injustice and wrong you endure is directly determined by how much you quietly submit to. Even to the point of extinction.
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ludicrous

Unread postby Whitefang » Sat 03 Jun 2017, 15:57:42

Yeah Cid, still funny, even....hilarious alternative facts blooming wild.
Eager to sell site of people in service of those in power.
It might give some people faith in BAU, give us some more years of peace to prep. Eagerness always gives them petty little tyrants away, they know they are selling BS. Sad and ludicrous simultaniously.

The Trump solution, burn baby burn, might help global dimming on a short notice, especially for coal fired power plants, they say in the papers here that the Trump exit of Paris leads to a .3 degree Celsius raise in avarage temp.
Not that it matters, fate is fixed.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/ludicrous

causing laughter because of absurdity; provoking or deserving derision; ridiculous; laughable:
a ludicrous lack of efficiency.


http://www.cfact.org/about/

Statement of Purpose

Prospering Lives. Promoting Progress. Protecting the Earth.

In 1985, the Committee For A Constructive Tomorrow (CFACT) was founded to promote a much-needed, positive alternative voice on issues of environment and development. Its co-founders, David Rothbard and Craig Rucker, strongly believed the power of the market combined with the applications of safe technologies could offer humanity practical solutions to many of the world’s most pressing concerns. A number of leading scientists, academics, and policy leaders soon joined them, along with thousands of citizens from around the U.S. and around the world.

Today, CFACT is a respected Washington D.C.-based organization whose voice can be heard relentlessly infusing the public-interest debate with a balanced perspective on environmental stewardship and other important issues. With an influential and impressive scientific advisory board, effective collegiate program on U.S. college campuses, CFACT Europe, official United Nations’ NGO representation, Adopt-A-Village project, Global Social Responsibility program, and “Just the Facts” daily national radio commentary, CFACT continues to offer genuine solutions to today’s most important global challenges.

CFACT has been termed “invaluable” by the Arizona Republic, it has been lauded for its “effort to bring sound science to the environmental debate” by a former president of the National Academy of Sciences, and has been praised by a respected Boston Globe columnist for “a record of supplying absolutely solid information.”
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Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2017 Pt. 1

Unread postby M_B_S » Mon 05 Jun 2017, 06:51:23

MASSIVE CRATERS FROM METHANE EXPLOSIONS DISCOVERED IN ARCTIC OCEAN WHERE ICE MELTED
BY HANNAH OSBORNE ON 6/1/17 AT 2:00 PM
http://www.newsweek.com/hundreds-crater ... sia-619068
Image

The craters are connected to deeper gas chimneys, showing gas flow from deeper hydrocarbon reservoirs. Hundreds of gas flares are seen in the water above.
M. WINSBORROW/CAGE

Image

There are several hundred craters in the area the study looked at. Over one hundred of them are up to 1,000 meters wide.
***********************************

As Dr. Sharkova told us the worst thing might happen.....

NOW

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJfOWfaP6RI
Last edited by M_B_S on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 08:44:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2017 Pt. 1

Unread postby Cog » Mon 05 Jun 2017, 07:28:56

Those craters have been there a long time. Nothing new.
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Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2017 Pt. 1

Unread postby kiwichick » Mon 05 Jun 2017, 08:06:45

@ cog ...........you must have a great supplier
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Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2017 Pt. 1

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 05 Jun 2017, 08:18:33

Latest prediction by the generally insightful FTnioli at ASIF:

This map, as well as Wipneus' animation based on latest PIOMAS data, and as well as latest data about developing dipole - all those show one same thing we've been waiting for: big-time acceleration of melt (both happening and further expected) on the Atlantic side
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Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2017 Pt. 1

Unread postby M_B_S » Mon 05 Jun 2017, 08:48:18

Cog wrote:Those craters have been there a long time. Nothing new.


Sorry cog but your comment is bull shit!
Image


http://science.sciencemag.org/content/356/6341/948

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q3c9CErdmA

Image

http://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2017 ... supported/

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Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2017 Pt. 1

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Mon 05 Jun 2017, 10:49:31

Cog pointed out:

Those craters have been there a long time. Nothing new.


Kiwichick made the inane comment:

@ cog ...........you must have a great supplier


and M_B_S stated:

Sorry cog but your comment is bull shit!


And it is quite clear that neither of the latter two bothered to read what the actual paper said either due to laziness or illiteracy.

Andreassen, K. et al, 2017. Massive blow-out craters formed by hydrate-controlled methane expulsion from the Arctic seafloor. Science, 356, pp 948-953.

We revisited a cluster of kilometer-wide craters in the northern Barents Sea (Fig. 1),inferred to have formed after deglaciation of the area ~15,000 years ago , in order to elucidate the processes and mechanisms of their formation. The investigation is based on new geophysical data from the subsurface, the seafloor, and water column, integrated with numerical modeling of the hydrate stability zone over the past 30,000 years, spanning full glacial to interglacial conditions . In the model, transient evolution of the hydrate system is determined by the diffusive heat transport through sediments and ice, subglacial and seafloor temperature variations, ice thickness, isostatic loading, and eustatic sea-level variations.
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Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2017 Pt. 1

Unread postby Cog » Mon 05 Jun 2017, 12:14:24

Thank rockdoc123. I was going to let them go all in on the stupid and they did not disappoint me. As is so often the case here, a doomer will find a scary headline, post his angst over it, and never bother to read the underlying article. Its both predictable and sometimes quite funny.
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Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2017 Pt. 1

Unread postby M_B_S » Mon 05 Jun 2017, 12:44:30

Bullshit is still bullshit

You all forgot the new craters offshore and onshore!

The CH4 massiv + reading in the arctic and world.

The massiv methan blow out is happening NOW

You cannot fool a PEAK OILER are YOU a real PEAK OILER?

If not play with your toys in "Kindergarten"!



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doomy gloomy

Unread postby Whitefang » Mon 05 Jun 2017, 12:45:55

Ok, got to set a record straight after my last bad linky:

http://greatwhitecon.info/

http://greatwhitecon.info/2017/06/facts ... june-2017/

Whilst the gap with previous years has narrowed during May, PIOMAS Arctic sea ice volume is still well below all previous years in their records:

I still think the upcoming first blue arctic ocean event will be the thing that gets this Earth on the fast track to a hothouse, an abrupt climate flip flop in a few years, methanehydrates, oceanoverturning, forest burning, etc etc, almost all known feedbacks are positive to a temperature increase.
Once you are accelerating, there is no brake on it, an avalanche.
Sea level rise will soon follow exponentially, still time to make a run for it but no solution to the harvest issue that will do us in.

I hope Rock and Cog are right and things will be ok, stable the next decade.
I am putting my money on leaving normal within 5 years at the max though, better safe than sorry....to see how far we can go.
Terrible and yet, a miracle might happen, Jezus making ice from water....who knows? :roll:
Last edited by Whitefang on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 14:05:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2017 Pt. 1

Unread postby Subjectivist » Mon 05 Jun 2017, 12:53:43

After the avalanche begins it is too late for the pebbles to vote.
II Chronicles 7:14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
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Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2017 Pt. 1

Unread postby Cog » Mon 05 Jun 2017, 13:48:57

M_B_S wrote:Bullshit is still bullshit

You all forgot the new craters offshore and onshore!

The CH4 massiv + reading in the arctic and world.

The massiv methan blow out is happening NOW

You cannot fool a PEAK OILER are YOU a real PEAK OILER?

If not play with your toys in "Kindergarten"!



M_B_S


Ok one more who wanted to double down on stupid has weighed in. I'm hoping for at least one more. You know, you make one comment like those "craters have been there a long time". Which is exactly what the article said, which no one read before they had a psychotic break with reality.

But such is the life of those who don't bother to read the article that they post and the others who jump in who haven't bothered to read it either. As long as it has a scary title, the words contained within might as well have never been written.
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Vanilla ice ice baby.....

Unread postby Whitefang » Mon 05 Jun 2017, 14:31:35

Ok Cog,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rog8ou-ZepE

That newsweek info were based on older, prehuman culture, subsea craters to understand those new ones being formed this decade, to have a look into what is about to happen.

Do you expect the known massive arctic carbon store to be stable without arctic sea ice?

If not we only disagree in when the bomb will go blast or has already.
And then only this year, or a couple of decades from now at the most.

Or do you expect the ice to be a permanent feature of the North?
Or just holding on to not this century like the IPCC did not so long ago?
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Re:

Unread postby Cog » Mon 05 Jun 2017, 14:42:23

Whitefang wrote:Ok Cog,

That newsweek info were based on older, prehuman culture, subsea craters to understand those new ones being formed this decade, to have a look into what is about to happen.

Do you expect the known massive arctic carbon store to be stable without arctic sea ice?

If not we only disagree in when the bomb will go blast or has already.
And then only this year, or a couple of decades from now at the most.

Or do you expect the ice to be a permanent feature of the North?
Even holding on to not this century like the IPCC did not so long ago?


Ok now I've got five people do double down on retardation. That is a record for me so I will break my diet and have a beer.

Let me crystal clear, although it won't matter and you won't bother to read it. I read a posted article that was posted right here in this thread. Within the article it state very clearly that those craters were 15,000 years old. I did not comment on the article until the doomers went nuts, with there usual doom when viewing the graphic of those 15,000 year old craters. I simply commented that they were old. Now the world ends, Cog is smoking dope, he is a fool, an idiot, whatever your insult of choice is.

And this was all because I made a comment about something that was in the article, that no one bothered to read, including the person who posted it, with the exception of myself and rockdoc123. I find this hilarious and typical of what to expect from the doomer community. Now don't take this the wrong way. I'm not upset or butt-hurt about being called an idiot. What this thread has revealed is that doomers don't even read their own posted doom or attempt to understand it. Which is something I've always thought was indicative of how they think.
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Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2017 Pt. 1

Unread postby M_B_S » Mon 05 Jun 2017, 15:35:40

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Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2017 Pt. 1

Unread postby dissident » Mon 05 Jun 2017, 16:44:17

M_B_S wrote:Bullshit is still bullshit

You all forgot the new craters offshore and onshore!

The CH4 massiv + reading in the arctic and world.

The massiv methan blow out is happening NOW

You cannot fool a PEAK OILER are YOU a real PEAK OILER?

If not play with your toys in "Kindergarten"!



M_B_S



Cut the hysterical crap. There is an objective measure of how much CH4 is being released and that is the MEASURED CH4 concentration in the atmosphere. So where is the evidence of a gushing release of CH4 that was not happening 20, 40, 80 years ago? It should be very easy for you to show us the end of the world in action.
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Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2017 Pt. 1

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 05 Jun 2017, 17:26:06

dissident wrote:where is the evidence of a gushing release of CH4 that was not happening 20, 40, 80 years ago?



Image
There's no evidence of a sudden huge influx of CH4 in the last 20-80 years. Instead the data shows a steady increase in the amount of methane in the atmosphere since the start of the industrial revolution. After staying pretty steady for thousands of years, the amount of CH4 in the atmosphere has almost tripled in the last 200 years.

Cheers!
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Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2017 Pt. 1

Unread postby dissident » Mon 05 Jun 2017, 21:15:34

Plantagenet wrote:
dissident wrote:where is the evidence of a gushing release of CH4 that was not happening 20, 40, 80 years ago?



Image
There's no evidence of a sudden huge influx of CH4 in the last 20-80 years. Instead the data shows a steady increase in the amount of methane in the atmosphere since the start of the industrial revolution. After staying pretty steady for thousands of years, the amount of CH4 in the atmosphere has almost tripled in the last 200 years.

Cheers!


We are talking about catastrophic release of CH4 from seabed cryospheric reservoirs. Your graphic shows precisely nothing in this regard. Coal extraction overlapped by oil extraction have been spewing massive amounts of CH4 into the atmosphere since the 1800s. Human population growth has led to the massive increase in rice plantations and other sources of CH4 such as cattle farming. Some of the CH4 release is inevitably due to the melting of permafrost and associated carbon decomposition.

When we see the cataclysm that has been pimped on this board for the last few years, the atmospheric CH4 levels in the high latitude northern hemisphere will hit the tens of ppmv range from the current 1.8 ppmv in a very short period of time.
So the point about the seabed craters being ancient stands. If there was some cascade of these craters forming right now, everyone would know about it.
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Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2017 Pt. 1

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 05 Jun 2017, 23:17:46

It seems like this whole thing got off on the wrong foot. The significance to me of vox's linked article is that there does indeed seem to be a way for methane to emerge from seabed deposits, since it happened in the course of the last deglaciation.

But it seems to be of limited relevance to today, since there aren't massive icesheets over seabed. Or am I missing something?

ETA: on the other hand, i just ran across this:

Domes of frozen methane may be warning for new blow-outs


Several methane domes, some 500m wide, have been mapped on the Arctic Ocean floor. They may be signs of soon-to-happen methane expulsions that have previously created massive craters in a near-by area...

"Every year we go back to the dome area with our research vessel, and every year I am anxious to see if one of these domes has become a crater," says lead author of the study Pavel Serov, PhD candidate at CAGE at UiT The Arctic University of Norway.

These domes are the present-day analogue to what scientists think preceded the craters found in the near-by area, which were recently reported in Science. The craters were formed as the ice sheet retreated from the Barents Sea during the deglaciation some 12.000 years ago.


Pavel Serov el al., "Postglacial response of Arctic Ocean gas hydrates to climatic amelioration," PNAS (2017). www.pnas.org/cgi/doi/10.1073/pnas.1619288114
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