Anone up4 joining SeaGypsy?

[ReverseEngineer]

Unfortunately I haven't a picture but I have some friends who lived in a very remote part of North Queensland for 15 years with their monthly 300 mile trip to Cairns being on a boat composed of a 14 foot alloy boat with large building frame timber cross beams and the hulls from a 20 foot Tornado class catamaran as outriggers. Utterly unsinkable, 10 inch draft, room for 2 adults, 2 kids and 500kg of supplies. Cost: virtually nothing.
The same idea scaled down a bit; 12 foot alloy boat with 2 windsurfer hulls as outriggers/ buoyancy. Using the sails from the windsurfer, all one needs is a set of lee boards and simple rudder arrangement. By ebay all up under $!k USD and capable of going almost anywhere in an emergency, with 2 or 3 people on board.

Agreed in principle, and if you live anywhere near a coast or a navigable lake or river, I certainly think having some form of sail craft is a good prep. I would not however go much more than a day or two out of site of land unless you have a good deal of experience with your boat, whatever its configuration. Again however, for "escapes" along the east or west coasts of the US or down the Mighty Mississippi, you certainly could put together a decent boat for very little money. Might not look beautiful, but it would work. Also, remember that cats and trimarans have little draft and can be beached, a significant advantage over a keelboat. You can sail into shallow waters and not get holed on a reef. You can live in said boat on the beach of a frozen lake all winter. Etc.

Reverse Engineer

[SeaGypsy]

Unfortunately I haven't a picture but I have some friends who lived in a very remote part of North Queensland for 15 years with their monthly 300 mile trip to Cairns being on a boat composed of a 14 foot alloy boat with large building frame timber cross beams and the hulls from a 20 foot Tornado class catamaran as outriggers. Utterly unsinkable, 10 inch draft, room for 2 adults, 2 kids and 500kg of supplies. Cost: virtually nothing.
The same idea scaled down a bit; 12 foot alloy boat with 2 windsurfer hulls as outriggers/ buoyancy. Using the sails from the windsurfer, all one needs is a set of lee boards and simple rudder arrangement. By ebay all up under $!k USD and capable of going almost anywhere in an emergency, with 2 or 3 people on board.

Agreed in principle, and if you live anywhere near a coast or a navigable lake or river, I certainly think having some form of sail craft is a good prep. I would not however go much more than a day or two out of site of land unless you have a good deal of experience with your boat, whatever its configuration. Again however, for "escapes" along the east or west coasts of the US or down the Mighty Mississippi, you certainly could put together a decent boat for very little money. Might not look beautiful, but it would work. Also, remember that cats and trimarans have little draft and can be beached, a significant advantage over a keelboat. You can sail into shallow waters and not get holed on a reef. You can live in said boat on the beach of a frozen lake all winter. Etc.

Reverse Engineer

The main thing it takes to go deep sea in any boat is balls (or equivalent).
Confidence is important to be sure, the only way to get this is practice.
The vast majority of yacht wrecks are from sailing too close to a lee shore.
That is with the wind blowing across your bow to shore. The safest options are to avoid rough weather as much as possible and if caught at sea in a sudden storm to head away from land not towards it. Collision with solid objects, mainly land, rocks, reef, larger vessels and semi submerged containers are the main dangers. Survival at sea is an art and a science. For some people it is hell, for some it is close to heaven.

[threadbear]

Sea Gypsy, My husband has a 39' wooden Monk design boat, without stabilizers, and a 5 foot draft. He loves it, but I have a bit of a problem in seas with 8 foot chop, particularly when it flies off the top of a wave, and then falls through the air into the trench below. Honestly....it's awful and I'm pretty brave. I've hit my head on the ceiling when it drops and leaves me suspended in mid air. I'm not exaggerating. In beam seas, I've been nearly beaten to a pulp by the side to side action, and my dog hasn't overcome the experience of being airborne after we got caught in the wake of a large tanker. So, don't take my comments personally. They're based on my experience with motorized boats, not sailboats. The thought of crossing the Georgia strait near Gabriola island, on anything smaller than what we've got leaves me weak in the knees.

[SeaGypsy]

Sea Gypsy, My husband has a 39' wooden Monk design boat, without stabilizers, and a 5 foot draft. He loves it, but I have a bit of a problem in seas with 8 foot chop, particularly when it flies off the top of a wave, and then falls through the air into the trench below. Honestly....it's awful and I'm pretty brave. I've hit my head on the ceiling when it drops and leaves me suspended in mid air. I'm not exaggerating. In beam seas, I've been nearly beaten to a pulp by the side to side action, and my dog hasn't overcome the experience of being airborne after we got caught in the wake of a large tanker. So, don't take my comments personally. They're based on my experience with motorized boats, not sailboats. The thought of crossing the Georgia strait near Gabriola island, on anything smaller than what we've got leaves me weak in the knees.

No offense Threadbare but where did your husband learn to sail?
The situation you describe is prevented by proper use of drogues; things you dangle in the water behind the boat to keep it from lurching at the speed of surface propulsion,as well as keeping the stern down and bow up.

The most secure form of drogue is simply knotted ropes. These also provide a last ditch hand hold to the vessel in a case of wo/man overboard.
One friend of mine who has done 3 circumnavigations without a motor, found 2km of abseiling rope at an Army auction. They cost him a couple of hundred bucks. he joined them up into 10/ 200m knotted lines. They were perfect drag for his 37 foot steel schooner weighing 16 tonnes. They also saved his life in the Southern ocean when a freak wave slammed the boat at the start of a 4 hour watch at 2am. He was knocked off and found one of his drogue lines in the water.

[ReverseEngineer]

my dog hasn't overcome the experience of being airborne after we got caught in the wake of a large tanker.

Fortunately you just got caught in the wake and didn't collide. One thing you definitely want to do in a small boat is stay OUT of the shipping lanes, though of course with commercial shipping falling off the map these days a collision is less likely.

Again I would agree in principle with SeaGypsy that Balls is probably the number one requirement, and if you at least study the weather charts before making a long passage and don't stupidly sail into a hurricane, chances are at some point you will make landfall. However, if your only navigation ability is using a GPS, I would be concerned that if/when TSHTF the signals coming off the GPS satellites will be encrypted so only the military can use them and your Garmin or Magellan unit won't function. Do you own a Sextant and know how to use it? They aren't all that easy to use on a small boat and small errors add up over ocean length passages. I personally doubt I could come within 50 miles of Hawaii for instance without a GPS, I would sail right by it. For myself, I would stick to the coast of North America except in the case it was a Thermonuclear wasteland and my ONLY chance was a passage to Kiwiland.

I'd also reiterate that the primary problem is not at sea, but keeping your preps and boat safe at any landfall. Unless you have a prior plan and know the harbor or marina or beach you intend on aiming for, dealing with the locals at any place in a SHTF scenario would be a nightmare of trying to bribe your way in. Heading for a Desert Island might seem a good Romantic Solution, but again I bring up the case of Fletcher Christian and the Mutineers of the Bounty on Pitcairn Island. Not sure I really want to live that life, even if I get to bring Ginger and MaryAnn with me. LOL.

However, if you take the premise of the thread of JOINING SeaGypsy, and postulate a fairly large Flotilla of Yachties all operating together, fairly well armed with maybe 20 or 30 boats in the flotilla, you might be able to set up shop as the Caribean Pirates did back in the 17th century. If you are going to try such a thing, much like setting up a land based Doommunity you would want to have a variety of people with different forms of expertiese available. The Water does provide a Barrier to others, its a great geographic separator. However, I still will stick to the separator I like the best, the Mountains. Really BIG Mountains. The Great Wall that God Built. Give me a Valley with only a few thousand people, some good farmland and wilderness full of Caribou and streams full of Salmon. Give me some mountains upon which to post sentries and dogsleds to move about the territory. That is where I would hole up. Oh yea, that IS where I am holed up. Here in the Matanuska-Susitna River Valley, I am not worried about a mechanized army rolling through here, or roving bands of Zombies either. I only worry that Redoubt will bury us like Pompeii or that we will hunt out the land and the fisherie might collapse from worldwide pollution. Barring those outcomes, I feel as safe as I can here on the Last Great Frontier. I probably won't last all that long, but somebody up here will, hopefully some of the kids I teach. Its my job to make sure that happens to the best of my ability before I walk into the Great Beyond. I can't save them ALL, but I can SAVE AS MANY AS I CAN. And yes, in the positive sense of the word I do practice Eugenics in the process. I pick the strong, the smart and the ones with good values who care about others and respect their teachers. The rest of them will twist in the wind. So it goes.

Reverse Engineer

[threadbear]

Sea Gypsy, Monk design boat= motor boat. Our's is a converted fishing boat. I don't know if you'd want to dangle ropes anywhere near the prop. If we decide to keep it, we WILL put stabilizers of some kind on it.

I asked a guy who crabbed off Alaska for 25 years, to tell me what his scariest experience was. Turned out it wasn't off Alaska, it was in the Georgia strait, the body of water between Gulf islands and the mainland of Southern B.C., where we motor. It's usually pretty safe, but the winds are unpredictable, can go from 0 to gale force in a matter of minutes. The currents and tides are really tricky too.The Northern Gulf islands between Nanaimo on Vancouver island and Lasqueti island's a real barf fest too.

My husband is careful and protective of me--(believe it or not )plans well ahead, but he is pretty fearless and very adventurous. I've tried to be a good sport about being tossed around like a hackey sack since we got the boat 8 years ago, but last summer was the last straw. If we don't get some kind of stabilizing system or trade the boat in for something less rolly, I won't do long trips. period. Last summer, for a stretch of about a mile, the boat did this flying into the air and falling thing non stop. For the first time in my life I screamed pretty much uncontrollably,until we turned around.

[SeaGypsy]

Sea Gypsy, Monk design boat= motor boat. Our's is a converted fishing boat. I don't know if you'd want to dangle ropes anywhere near the prop. If we decide to keep it, we WILL put stabilizers of some kind on it.

I asked a guy who crabbed off Alaska for 25 years, to tell me what his scariest experience was. Turned out it wasn't off Alaska, it was in the Georgia strait, the body of water between Gulf islands and the mainland of Southern B.C., where we motor. It's usually pretty safe, but the winds are unpredictable, can go from 0 to gale force in a matter of minutes. The currents and tides are really tricky too.The Northern Gulf islands between Nanaimo on Vancouver island and Lasqueti island's a real barf fest too.

My husband is careful and protective of me--(believe it or not )plans well ahead, but he is pretty fearless and very adventurous. I've tried to be a good sport about being tossed around like a hackey sack since we got the boat 8 years ago, but last summer was the last straw. If we don't get some kind of stabilizing system or trade the boat in for something less rolly, I won't do long trips. period. Last summer, for a stretch of about a mile, the boat did this flying into the air and falling thing non stop. For the first time in my life I screamed pretty much uncontrollably,until we turned around.

Buy a good drogue with a steel shaft & heavy chain leader to keep it out of the prop, or in an emergency drag whatever you can as a drogue and kill the engine. In severe weather you want to be running down and across the wind anyway; the engine is not essential. Switched off it does what you want it to do, slow the boat down& not get tangled in drogue lines.

[threadbear]

Sea Gypsy, The dynamics of a boat without a keel are different than a sailing vessel. I don't know if your system would work that well for a motorized craft. We've never been off shore far enough that we couldn't pull into a marina to get out of the mess, so haven't had to resort to anyt temporary stabilizing systems to avert disaster. We haven't experienced any terrible danger, just major discomfort. I have to agree with your comments in prior posts about the potentially deadly nature of sailing, motoring, close to shore. That's where the worst wind action, tidal and current effects are going to be. The only benefit is being able to pull into harbour if things get tough.

[SeaGypsy]

Sea Gypsy, The dynamics of a boat without a keel are different than a sailing vessel. I don't know if your system would work that well for a motorized craft. We've never been off shore far enough that we couldn't pull into a marina to get out of the mess, so haven't had to resort to anyt temporary stabilizing systems to avert disaster. We haven't experienced any terrible danger, just major discomfort. I have to agree with your comments in prior posts about the potentially deadly nature of sailing, motoring, close to shore. That's where the worst wind action, tidal and current effects are going to be. The only benefit is being able to pull into harbour if things get tough.

Sorry Threadbear, I thought you were motor sailing?
My greatest ocean sailing teacher had a mantra "For serenity of purpose and peace of mind: Sail!"
Liquid fuels stink, the motor stinks, fires are often caused by these two things.
The vibrations drive the occupants nuts, it makes the whole thing feel like a job instead of a challenge.
There is nothing like the buzz of safely rounding a head or surfing over a bar in a live aboard yacht without having used an engine for the journey.
My Circumnavigating friend with the 37 footer had only a sculling oar& sails.
He could push out 2 Knots with the oar.
Average day at sea 180 Knots
Best day 240 Knots.
He would not anchor closer than 2 km from shore; unless he could get safe harbor. That's the main reason I am going for a shoal draft.

[Jotapay]

I've shoestring traveled over at least 1/4 of this planet in some very unconventional ways. I've done things that most folks cannot fathom, who have never left civilization behind. I think your idea might work if you get the right people. It would require a commitment to training and utter adherence to the plan, as most people don't have all the skills required and would need to overcome obstacles on the journey. I'm concerned that you're a bit too focused on hippie fancies and not so much on practical matters, but it sounds like you've traveled a fair amount in the past so I trust your judgment as much as one can over teh internets.

[SeaGypsy]

I've shoestring traveled over at least 1/4 of this planet in some very unconventional ways. I've done things that most folks cannot fathom, who have never left civilization behind. I think your idea might work if you get the right people. It would require a commitment to training and utter adherence to the plan, as most people don't have all the skills required and would need to overcome obstacles on the journey. I'm concerned that you're a bit too focused on hippie fancies and not so much on practical matters, but it sounds like you've traveled a fair amount in the past so I trust your judgment as much as one can over teh internets.

Having lived in Nimbin and Byron Bay for 15 years I have had 'Hippies' up to my ears. While I share some of their ideas and Ideals; I am more comfortable with 'Rednecks'. Why? Because they get things done. They don't exaggerate their knowledge or ability. They know the meaning of real work.
It is better to have a balance of skills in a community. Bullshitting and smoking pot don't count as skills.

[Dawn]

The safest options are to avoid rough weather as much as possible and if caught at sea in a sudden storm to head away from land not towards it.

I realize you're talking about sailing and such and I have to admit that I haven't read all of the comments. But the statement above is nuts, IME. I agree with avoiding rough water, but why would you choose to go further out?

See my (real) dad who's in the hospital dying made dumb ass choices like that... Once we were on Lake Erie and very close to an island... he chose to race the incoming storm to shore. Our boat almost capsized because of waves and water spouts that were around us. To this day I can't step foot on a boat, or I'll be sick.
I remember laying on the floor of the boat praying to God that we'd live.

Please explain the reasoning behind going further out.

[SeaGypsy]

Deleted, miss post.

[Dawn]

Why would you head away from land?

[SeaGypsy]

The safest options are to avoid rough weather as much as possible and if caught at sea in a sudden storm to head away from land not towards it.

I realize you're talking about sailing and such and I have to admit that I haven't read all of the comments. But the statement above is nuts, IME. I agree with avoiding rough water, but why would you choose to go further out?

See my (real) dad who's in the hospital dying made dumb ass choices like that... Once we were on Lake Erie and very close to an island... he chose to race the incoming storm to shore. Our boat almost capsized because of waves and water spouts that were around us. To this day I can't step foot on a boat, or I'll be sick.
I remember laying on the floor of the boat praying to God that we'd live.

Please explain the reasoning behind going further out.

You have just contradicted yourself Dawn; my advice is in every seafarers manual since time immemorial. The reason to stay away from shore is simple: deep water soaks up surface turbulence; shallow water magnifies it.
Also your chance of running into a solid object are highest near shore.

[threadbear]

I HOPE to get a motor sailor one day, SGypsy. I think they will hold their value much better than a motor boat. Sailing isn't quite so romantic where I am. It's cold on the water, better to be inside the boat, most of the year. But the silence would be just great, and it's more environmentally friendly. Motor sailors seem like a good compromise. My husband would like to get a boat and take it to Hawaii. I think I could make it on a sailboat. I don't get sea sick, usually. We'd have to crew up, though, because the watches would be brutal, otherwise.

[SeaGypsy]

I HOPE to get a motor sailor one day, SGypsy. I think they will hold their value much better than a motor boat. Sailing isn't quite so romantic where I am. It's cold on the water, better to be inside the boat, most of the year. But the silence would be just great, and it's more environmentally friendly. Motor sailors seem like a good compromise. My husband would like to get a boat and take it to Hawaii. I think I could make it on a sailboat. I don't get sea sick, usually. We'd have to crew up, though, because the watches would be brutal, otherwise.

Hi Threadbare, did you check out my link to the Jochems' family schooner? It has a fully raised full length deck, which gives the option of control from on deck or within the cabin.

Environment is a consideration on top of what I have already said; but Peak Oil and pending economic disaster are right up there on the list.

[Dawn]

No, I didn't give any advice. I was asking an honest question. Say you go boating when the weather is nice. Then suddenly you can see a storm coming. You're close to an island on the lake, but for some (strange) reason you choose to race the storm to shore inland. The storm beats you there.

my advice is in every seafarers manual since time immemorial. The reason to stay away from shore is simple: deep water soaks up surface turbulence; shallow water magnifies it.
Also your chance of running into a solid object are highest near shore.

Lake Erie is shallow. I appreciate this explanation more.

[SeaGypsy]

No, I didn't give any advice. I was asking an honest question. Say you go boating when the weather is nice. Then suddenly you can see a storm coming. You're close to an island on the lake, but for some (strange) reason you choose to race the storm to shore inland. The storm beats you there.

The best crewmate has a name: Experience.

[SeaGypsy]

Here's what happens when you sail with a lee shore into a cyclone; today's news from Australia:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009 ... 513653.htm


"We're always concerned that ships shouldn't be moving in and out of Moreton Bay Marine Park during such conditions, they should perhaps be asked to wait offshore until such conditions pass," he said.