Anone up4 joining SeaGypsy?

[Ibon]

hey SeaGypsy I salute what you are doing. Preparing for that journey is already of value as it gives you a peace of mind that you have your ark prepared. And taking that journey is both a lifestyle and a survival strategy if and when things really start getting crazy. And if your going to get swallowed up in the tide of chaos then why not have it happen while you are doing what you love. And finally being nomadic you are following a tradition of human societies in the past who through their lives to the sea escaping or looking for a refuge. It is cultural natural selection at work.

I am a landlubber myself and have purchased my 400 acres of isolate wilderness where me and my filipina wife will be taking refuge as well as enjoying the creativity of creating own survival strategy. Our daughters are grown ( I mentioned my oldest is at Ateneo in manila and transferring to UP next year) and enter a new chapter. For your interest here is a peak at the site we own in Panama where we will be. If ever you are blown across the pacific and find your self along the pacific coast of panama your always welcome to stop by for a stay........

www.mounttotumas.com

[SeaGypsy]

Nice pad Ibon!
You must have done some serious research to come up with such a spot?
My 2 main stompin' grounds are remote northern Australia and the Philippines. I have a number of options in both areas. I won't be choosing one in any hurry unless push comes to shove. I am well practiced in 'bush tucker' options in the remote north of Australia and am a very proficient fisherman. This part of the world is so underpopulated that skilled people are always in demand.
I find it really interesting how many people think and say "It's all over, we have destroyed the entire planet"; while there are still many places in the world where nature is doing quite well and people are scarce. I think it's the resignation stage in Kubler-Ross scale, not as developed as the stage of 'doing something'.
I know a lot of people just don't have what it takes to get out of their microcosm and have an honest look at the real world. I find it annoying that often these are the same people who accuse me of being blind to reality.
I agree wholeheartedly with your recommendation of doing what you love, even if you die doing so. Far better than lining up at the slaughterhouse of dieoff fate.
The fatalism of many posters is a sad reflection of indoctrination that "We sink or swim together". A belief in society over the individual, when in fact society is composed of individuals. Human population has bottlenecked before and will do so again. Sticking with the masses seems to me to be the most likely way to end up being among those 1st to be culled off.
When a society fails to put 1st the needs of individuals, individuals need to reclaim society. This is not happening in the mainstream, so what choice have we who can see the writing on the wall but to build our own society aside from the one which has subverted our individuality?

[thaicoon]

Hi everybody;

New participant to the site. Have been Peak Oi and 'Peak Everything' aware for a couple of years now. Been a regular on the oildrum and now dipping my toes into this one. I am at the action stage right now. No more hard selling to do on this fella.

When I read seagypsies post and then the link to Dimitri, I flashed on that first film exploration into possible global warming consequences-waterworld. Up until now, my plan has been to go upcountry here in Thailand and dig in there. However, after reading this post and the article, I once more peel away another level of denial. Who am I kidding thinking that I am going to ride it out in a country where basically the people see me as a financial utility. Once that's gone, I'm gone. Besides, China is not too far away, and the IPCC projections for climate change are not kind to the Thai rice producing area.

So, I go back a few squares and roll the dice. I have always been a part time sea gypsie. Who knows, I may graduate to a full time one. Captain, put me on the crew list!!

I am very interested in this and have the skills to do this. Let me roll this around my head and heart a little.

P.S Know some fabulous locales up this way for some Johnny Appleseeding.

[SeaGypsy]

Hi TC, I thought about Thailand a lot, but their visa system is b/s so my Asian base is where I married in the Philippines. Lots more islands too. I will be in PI all of March and April/ maybe longer, next year, starting a couple of projects there. I will be in Singapore a day or 2 each way. PM if you want to catch up. GW floods will take a while, I am more immediately concerned about food/ economic/ political catastrophe; to my mind these are more imminent threats. Nice to have you aboard me hearty!

[zeyang]

Anyhow, I'm still not afloat but have made a lot of preparations to build something special here at my home in the Philippines.
I am still committed to the whole idea of sail based transport being extremely important to personal freedom in coming years.
I wonder is this idea progressing aka Dmitry Orlov's ideas or mine or any other peakers who have decided there is wisdom in sail?

I like your way of thinking, but i would opt for building a sailboat. it will make shape up your skills. but its timeconsuming if you do alone, so better be more people involved. Boatbuilding is not difficult.any guy/girl manage to fix his car and house can do.

here is my project.
-12meter 100 year old design (double ender)
. 20 tonns
- built in alloy (almost to a ice-level class) Will be possible to freeze in.
- junk rig stayed mast.
- just a small engine with pitch prop (not essential)
- hardly any electrics onboard.just to run some minimum stuff.
- space for 6


hopefully finish by end of next year.

if there is anyone interested in joining this coop pls drop me a line (zeyang(at)laowai.no)
steps to be done is sailsewing,upholstry and woodworking. So there is works for both girls and guys.

[SeaGypsy]

Hi Zeyang, did you ever look into Origami boats as described earlier in this thread? Far cheaper, easier and less work to do than strip weld design, as shown in your pic. I'm sure the same principles apply to alloy as steel in this regard. I am thinking steel and timber despite the obvious advantages of alloy with regards to corrosion. Mainly that I want to be able to do low tech repairs, no botttled oxygen required to weld steel. I am also staying away from heavy non retractable keels. I want to have absolutely minimal draft for shallow water access and beachability. Hence the focus on Bolger designs.

[zeyang]

Hi Zeyang, did you ever look into Origami boats as described earlier in this thread? Far cheaper, easier and less work to do than strip weld design, as shown in your pic. I'm sure the same principles apply to alloy as steel in this regard. I am thinking steel and timber despite the obvious advantages of alloy with regards to corrosion. Mainly that I want to be able to do low tech repairs, no botttled oxygen required to weld steel. I am also staying away from heavy non retractable keels. I want to have absolutely minimal draft for shallow water access and beachability. Hence the focus on Bolger designs.

Hi
I cant say I have much experience with origami way of building. Its a nice idea though. i was thinking much about bending metal before, and i gave up the idea of pyramid roller and english wheel. (i dont like such ugly square corner boats)
I prefer the way they did in old days (its proven to work and not to hard on your back if you only have 2 hands) I agree lapstrake welding is not fast. It took me about 700 hours to tackweld them together. But if you say you will spend 3000 hours totally (which seems normal on boatbulding) i think 700 hours is acceptable for the hull.
Shallow water is a good idea, but i go for deep blue so i prefer a more beamy and heavy boat. (draft is not too bad, 1.6 meter) I wish it could be more shallow, but i can take out the lead in emergency and probably get to less than one meter.
With alloy, there is ways to weld without argon, just like steel. and if you go for steel you cant live without a welding machine. (same with me) Wood is maybe not an option in hot muddy climate? What i like with alloy, you can work with ordinary handtools. All my woodworking tools goes for alloy also. And its much cleaner, but coming from woodwork its maybe just me who thinks steel is dirty business.

but in end, making your own boat will make you an expert on fixing it no matter which design or material you choose. ive been sailing the seven seas before, and i dont dare to count those hours ive spent in harbours fixing and upgrading a boat never meant to be sailed in polar regions. but it was all that I had. this time it will be different. GRP is a bad idea among icebergs.

zeyang

[SeaGypsy]

People are building origami yachts your size in less than 1/4 the time and with far less expense. It is brainpower and winches/ leverage which do most of the work. Water ballast combined with deep chine/ centerboard/ leeboards can give a bluewater hull capable of tiny draft; simply by pulling up boards and pumping out tanks (no need to dump lead). Phil Bolger designs have circumnavigated, so have origami yachts; my plan is to marry the two.
I have no intention of being anywhere which freezes but I do have to contend with coral reefs. Orlov is regularly sailing his 32 foot Bolger designed boat in open Atlantic ocean; minimum draft is 18 inches. This gives access to many estuarine waterways other yachts can't get near. In the tropics the same capability means access to shallow reef areas like those in Micronesia, inaccessible to factory fishing boats and therefore still abundant with fish. A steel welding machine can be as simple as a couple of batteries and welding cable/ rods. I am not aware of anything simpler than a TIG system to weld aluminium. Feel free to enlighten me?

[zeyang]

People are building origami yachts your size in less than 1/4 the time and with far less expense. It is brainpower and winches/ leverage which do most of the work. Water ballast combined with deep chine/ centerboard/ leeboards can give a bluewater hull capable of tiny draft; simply by pulling up boards and pumping out tanks (no need to dump lead). Phil Bolger designs have circumnavigated, so have origami yachts; my plan is to marry the two.
I have no intention of being anywhere which freezes but I do have to contend with coral reefs. Orlov is regularly sailing his 32 foot Bolger designed boat in open Atlantic ocean; minimum draft is 18 inches. This gives access to many estuarine waterways other yachts can't get near. In the tropics the same capability means access to shallow reef areas like those in Micronesia, inaccessible to factory fishing boats and therefore still abundant with fish. A steel welding machine can be as simple as a couple of batteries and welding cable/ rods. I am not aware of anything simpler than a TIG system to weld aluminium. Feel free to enlighten me?

Yes. i see the nice thing about shallow draft. there is probably more nice places on the earth with shallow draft than not, but when it comes to abundant fishing areas you must head for the arctic areas as long as it last.
I have been sailing around greenland in a much worse boat than the Bolger design so his design is for sure not a problem. (boat is seldom the weakest link. its the people who sail them)
I never been welding with two wires and a battery, but its possible. (i have a picture of this somewhere) I think if you only want to do emergency repair on a steel boat i will go for oxyacetyle. then you dont need electricity. and 2 bottles of 10 kg each last a long time. (almost same feeling like TIG welding)
Ive heard about fillermetal for alloy where you can avoid the shielding gas for emergency but never used. I will go for a small portable lincoln 205 ac/dc or similar.
Alloy is more complicated than steel and more expensive. What i hope to gain is less upkeep and no need to paint. I hope I dont need to do a lot of welding while sailing. (else i need genset also) The less electric system onboard means less trouble.

in end, i spent huge amount of time figure out the right design for me which probably is not the right design for others. i wish i spent less time on research and more on actually building.Its easy to plan and prepare everything to the end of time.

good luck with your project

zeyang

[SeaGypsy]

I can catch tons of fish right here 14 degrees from the equator, so I don't really get the Arctic angle; I would have thought the Antarctic would be equal and far less populated.
The filler idea on alloy I have only vaguely heard of. With proper use of anodes steel can last a lifetime, or more. Steel is not prone to stress fracture the way alloy is.
I am a surfer, I want a yacht that I can surf onto a beach and wait out a storm, if necessary, this is just not possible on any kind of keel yacht.
There is no limit to what steel you can weld with batteries.
I don't like being cold. Haven't been out of the tropics in nearly a decade.

[zeyang]

I can catch tons of fish right here 14 degrees from the equator, so I don't really get the Arctic angle; I would have thought the Antarctic would be equal and far less populated.
The filler idea on alloy I have only vaguely heard of. With proper use of anodes steel can last a lifetime, or more. Steel is not prone to stress fracture the way alloy is.
I am a surfer, I want a yacht that I can surf onto a beach and wait out a storm, if necessary, this is just not possible on any kind of keel yacht.
There is no limit to what steel you can weld with batteries.
I don't like being cold. Haven't been out of the tropics in nearly a decade.

i kind of get a little dislike to cold myself now, being -17 degrees today. Need to preheat before welding.

anyway. back to boatbuilding.

zeyang

[SeaGypsy]

That's the way to keep warm! Keep the dream alive!

[zeyang]

i was reading through the blog of moonflowerofmoab. These 2 people are very good at making things themselves at low cost.
everything seems to be extremely lowcost or homemade. i like that attitude. why spend money on tools when they can spend it on travelling instead.
Look at that nice windlass!

http://www.moonflowerofmoab.com/images/PA270001.JPG

http://www.moonflowerofmoab.com/images/ ... 270011.JPG

[SeaGypsy]

Some friends of mine lived for 3 years on a remote Pacific island a few years back.
They had a few dozen visitors who just happened by the island.
Of these, they said not one was sailing an expensive yacht.
Many were converted trailer sailers or homemade on the cheap.
Yet if you go to any yacht club anywhere, you will hear the guys sitting swilling at the bar, talking about the vast amounts of money they have sunk into their boats. Of course they will insist this is absolutley necessary for safety at sea.
Reality is, either they are spending on maintenance for a boat which is tied up in port 99.99% of the time or on the latest gadgets/ modification.
In Asia it is very rare to see an expensive cruiser outside of very well known ports and usually these are part of a group trip, a once in a lifetime tour. The exception is where an owner hires a crew to shift the boat around the world so they can show it off at their next business conference.
Zeyang's comment on the sailor being the problem more often than the vessel is spot on.
People have been sailing in most parts of the world for hundreds or thousands of years. Before the invention of Kevlar, Satnav, Mylar, alloy masts, and the internet.
Next time you are wandering around a yacht yard, have a look below the waterline and see how many millionaire's toys are carrying a load of green slime.

[Ibon]

Nice pad Ibon!
You must have done some serious research to come up with such a spot?

15 years of looking but at the beginning my focus was a natural area for setting up eco-tourism. I spent a lot of time in montane tropical habitats in Latin America and I had a set of parameters; above 1000 meters, water source, close to a natural asset, good fertile volcanic soil, etc. The site fulfills and goes beyond what I was looking for but the plan now has morphed from eco tourism to refuge. Of course as long as the economic system supports it we will rent out cabins and invite universities to set up bio-diversity research stations etc. but parallel to this we are preparing an infrastructure to survive increasingly destabilizing times.

I have a feeling our wives would have a good laugh meeting each other and talking about their Sera Ulo asawas!

Ibon

[zeyang]

Some friends of mine lived for 3 years on a remote Pacific island a few years back.
They had a few dozen visitors who just happened by the island.
Of these, they said not one was sailing an expensive yacht.
Many were converted trailer sailers or homemade on the cheap.

and if you asked them about nationality you will probably found out their mostly from France! Those french guys are extremely good at building hardchine boats cheaply. Stout boats, no gadget and all homemade.
If you go to distant places like south Georgia,Spitzergen,Bear Island etc, you can almost count on there will be a young french couple there on their own sailboat.

usually the boat look something like this. (hard-chine) Not pretty but strong!

zeyang

[SeaGypsy]

Spot on Zeyang, French was the most common nationality, followed by French Canadian! Yugoslavs were on the list also. Nice design in the pic, I wonder if it's water ballasted? Twin keelers are common on Australia's Queensland coast, due to the combination of toughness and beachability, shallow draft.

[Newfie]

Three years ago I'm on the south coast of Newfoundland. I run up Hare Bay, a long fjord, about 13 miles to the head. Around the final bend is a fresh water bay, a perfect anchorage.

Ooops. There's a French couple for St. Pierre in there already. Very nice. They had me over for diner.

Hard chine aluminum boat.

Mine is hard chine steel. Murry 33 Ted Brewer design.

We are buying a 43' aluminum schooner, hard chine.

And I believe that is a Van deStandt in the pic? Bilge keeler. Only problem with that is less prop protection when running through ice.

[SeaGypsy]

Yep, the Bilge Keeler is very popular on the Great Barrier Reef coast. Easy enough to add a leader fin for the prop or a prop box. The squareness on the leading edges of the one shown above is a vulnerability, easy eough to make a much more tapered design.
43 footer Newfie? How many is your minimum crew?

[Newfie]

Yep, the Bilge Keeler is very popular on the Great Barrier Reef coast. Easy enough to add a leader fin for the prop or a prop box. The squareness on the leading edges of the one shown above is a vulnerability, easy eough to make a much more tapered design.
43 footer Newfie? How many is your minimum crew?

Me.

Gotta be. Two is the same as one. Three is an orgy.

I sail my 33-footer alone. This (43) boat was built to single hand. I still need to have a survey and sea trail to see if she lives up to the hype.

The whole boat has a single winch. Staysail schooner with two Hoyt job booms. Can't say I'm not somewhat skeptical of that. Wife is in love with alloy. This was the only thing we could afford.

I would have opted for a 44-Pape cutter in steel. Twice the displacement. May still come to that if the survey or trial does not go well.

Good time to look a used boats ya know.

Or, read Annie Hill "Voyaging on a Small Income." Sailing dories, built on the cheap. Ply and West System.

I generally find, with rare exception, there are two kinds of boat people: boat sailors and boat builders. You can't do both but you can't have one without the other.