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Agenda 21

How to save energy through both societal and individual actions.

Re: Agenda 21

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 24 Feb 2015, 17:10:57

According to Wikipedia,

The United States is a signatory country to Agenda 21...President George H. W. Bush was one of the 178 heads of government who signed the final text of the agreement at the Earth Summit in 1992

Also in 1992 the 102 Congress passed Res.353 - "Expressing the sense of the Congress that the United States should assume a strong leadership role in implementing the decisions made at the Earth Summit by developing a national strategy to implement Agenda 21 and other Earth summit agreements through domestic policy and foreign policy, by cooperating with all countries to identify and initiate further agreements to protect the global environment, and by supporting and participating in a high-level United Nations Sustainable Development Commission.

Whats the big deal? As long as obama doesn't seize upon this as another excuse for ignoring existing law, it seems harmless and well-intentioned. :)
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Re: Agenda 21

Unread postby Sixstrings » Tue 24 Feb 2015, 18:09:23

Timo wrote:Agenda 21 IS NOT, i repeat, IS NOT Government regulation! What is regulation si the FEAR and PARANOIA of the SUGGESTIONS contained within that document! Give me one instance where the US government has adopted Agenda 21 as their standard protocol. One instance. And no, i will not accept common sense coincidences as adoption of Agenda 21. Building codes against construction in floodzones existed long before Agenda 21. This should be easy. Everyone against Agenda 21 is determined that this is being crammed down our throats in the guise of some vast, international UN consipracy. Support your case! With facts!!!


Well, I agree with you. It sounds like an interesting story. I'd like to see real details of it. Too bad we don't have much media in this country like PBS or something where you can just get some details on something.

I don't know, I read an article where they quote a landlord in montana that says fema went and declared the whole town a flood zone and he blames it on UN Agenda 21. So yes, it begs for details.

I'll continue looking into this, and see if I can get to the bottom of it.

DEMOCRATS AGAINST U. N. AGENDA 21

SOUNDS LIKE SCIENCE FICTION...OR SOME CONSPIRACY THEORY...BUT IT ISN'T.

UN Agenda 21/Sustainable Development is the action plan implemented worldwide to inventory and control all land, all water, all minerals, all plants, all animals, all construction, all means of production, all energy, all education, all information, and all human beings in the world. INVENTORY AND CONTROL.----Rosa Koire

...

Considering its policies are woven into all the General Plans of the cities and counties, it's important for people to know where these policies are coming from. While many people support the United Nations for its 'peacemaking' efforts, hardly anyone knows that they have very specific land use policies that they would like to see implemented in every city, county, state and nation. The specific plan is called United Nations Agenda 21 Sustainable Development, which has its basis in Communitarianism. By now, most Americans have heard of sustainable development but are largely unaware of Agenda 21.

In a nutshell, the plan calls for governments to take control of all land use and not leave any of the decision making in the hands of private property owners
http://www.democratsagainstunagenda21.com/

ICLEI: When they say local they mean it

What does ICLEI (pronounced ICK-LY) stand for? International Council for Local Environmental Initiatives. It was created as a non-governmental spin-off by the United Nations in 1990 to implement Agenda 21 locally across the world. It is a membership organization for cities; 7,807 worldwide as of 2012.

Headquartered in Bonn, Germany, it is a lobbying and policy group that is intended to influence and change local governmental policies related to all aspects of human life. It designs and sells systems that monitor, report, and control water and energy usage. This information is then shared.

By concentrating power in cities this group circumvents requirements for ratification of international treaties and gives the illusion of local control. ICLEI is structured as a parallel government but has no transparency because it is a private non-profit.

...

There is a growing movement to KICK ICLEI OUT of towns across the US. Spokane, Washington has a ballot initiative in the works that will change their city charter to remove ICLEI and prohibit the city from UN-affiliated group membership if it passes.
PRINT OUR FLYERS TO KICK ICLEI OUT (pdf)
Use this one if your CITY is a member
Use this one if your COUNTY is a member

There is such a sense of nervous panic in ICLEI's description of its mission, as if it's almost too late to implement their plans. But they are being implemented, at an alarming rate.
http://www.democratsagainstunagenda21.com/iclei-when-they-say-local-they-mean-it.html


Okay, well we're getting somewhere here. So ICLEI is a private organization set up by Agenda 21 and is located in Bonn, Germany. And cities and counties around the world are invited to sign up to it, I guess.

I looked at the Democrats Against Agenda 21 site -- and it's a lot of ranting. One of the core issues seems to be that the ICLEI is herding everyone into a certain kind of land use development? More urban and concentrated?

Anyways -- I guess it doesn't dound like the end of the world, but I'll keep digging. :P

edit: and I do have to admit, when someone has to say "this sounds like a conspiracy theory, but it isn't!" -- that's not a good sign lol

2nd edit -- BUT -- fact still remains, if voters in a town or state don't want their gov to be members of this private organization based in Germany, then there is no law saying they have to be.

Urban planning and development issues are a profession. Even a small town already has experts. I don't see why exactly they need to be part of a group in Germany.
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Re: Agenda 21

Unread postby Sixstrings » Tue 24 Feb 2015, 18:34:41

Here's their website:

http://www.iclei.org/

ICLEI'S MISSION
is to build and serve a worldwide movement of local governments to achieve tangible improvements in global sustainability, with a specific focus on environmental conditions through cumulative local actions.

...

ICLEI’s first global programs were Local Agenda 21, a program promoting participatory governance and local sustainable development planning, and Cities for Climate Protection™ (CCP), the world’s first and largest program supporting cities in climate action planning using a five milestone process including greenhouse gas emissions inventories to systematically reduce emissions. ICLEI’s programs and campaigns looked beyond mere environmental aspects and embraced wider sustainability issues. The ICLEI Council acknowledged this and formally broadened the mandate of the association in 2003, renaming the association ICLEI – Local Governments for Sustainability.


(no, the below picture is not a haldron collider god particle experiment -- it's the governing structure of the ICLEI)

Image
Image

ICLEI is democratically governed by its Members through a Global Council.

The ICLEI Council represents ICLEI’s global membership by way of representative democracy. It is the supreme decision-making and oversight body of the global association. The Council has sole power to amend the Charter, elects members to the ICLEI Global Executive Committee and establishes directions for the Association and adopt the ICLEI Strategic Plan.

The Council is composed of all voting members of the ICLEI Regional Executive Committees. Each Regional Executive Committee carries one vote on the Council.


So -- who pays for the ICLEI? US tax dollars?

Basically, this sounds like an NGO that's got itself in all these countries. Russians don't like foreign NGO's trying to change them. So why should this be forced on anyone in Texas, or Montana, that doesn't want it.

It all sounds harmless, except for the issue that maybe cities from more conservative areas don't have a voice in the mission of the organization, etc.

Personally -- no, I don't want my county commissioners spending my property taxes on bike lanes maybe just because they heard about on a junkit to Germany, which I paid for too. The decisions still need to be local, we don't really need a NGO to tell us what to do. Everybody already knows what a bike lane is. And I don't like them, bikes and pedestrians should be on the sidewalks.

Texas City Withdraws From ICLEI, UN “Agenda 21”

Officials in the City of College Station, Texas, announced that the city government would be withdrawing from ICLEI, an international organization linked to the United Nations and its controversial “Agenda 21.” Local Tea Party activists and concerned citizens promptly applauded the decision as another victory for national sovereignty and property rights.

Communities and lawmakers across the nation have been fighting back against the UN’s so-called “sustainable development” schemes for years. But the trend is accelerating as more and more cities and towns cancel their memberships in “ICLEI — Local Governments for Sustainability,” formerly known as the “International Council for Local Environmental Initiatives.”

The UN-linked non-profit is essentially a global advocacy group seeking to implement a broad range of policies at every level of government — especially the plans laid out in Agenda 21, a UN scheme to radically alter the world under the guise of environmentalism. But ICLEI and the agenda it represents have come under increasing scrutiny recently as awareness grows and activists mobilize.

While “sustainability” may sound nice at first, critics of the plans note that advocates of “sustainable development” have much broader goals in mind. "Current lifestyles and consumption patterns of the affluent middle class — involving high meat intake, the use of fossil fuels, electrical appliances, home and work-place air-conditioning and suburban housing — are not sustainable," noted Earth Summit Secretary-General Maurice Strong as he ushered in Agenda 21 two decades ago.

Dozens of local governments and counties have already expelled ICLEI in recent years. In fact, membership in the international organization has declined from over 600 local governments in America in 2009 to around 550 today.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/tech/environment/item/7037-texas-city-withdraws-from-iclei-un-agenda-21


(I'm being tongue and cheek, but really, I don't want my local county commission doing anything stupid -- or overly expensive -- just because everyone else in the ICLEI is doing it. These are local issues. Some kind of club for cities / annual convention is fine, but really, if conservative municipal governments don't feel welcome then maybe something is wrong with the organization)
Last edited by Sixstrings on Tue 24 Feb 2015, 19:05:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Agenda 21

Unread postby Sixstrings » Tue 24 Feb 2015, 19:00:29

Still known as ICLEI, it changed its name to “Local Governments for Sustainability.” It in essence imposes soft law on otherwise sovereign lands. However, its web is larger than you may know. Is your city or locality a member of ICLEI? Check the list below to find out…. If you see your city, you may want to attend your next council meeting to find out why…

“Individual rights will have to take a back seat to the collective.” Harvey Ruvin, Vice Chairman, ICLEI. The Wildlands Project
http://procinctu.info/iclei-list-members-agenda-21-implementation/


Anyhow I guess it's alright, as long as it's kept in perspective, and I wouldn't want my taxes going up over it. And I wouldn't want my county commission getting carried away after some junkit to Europe and then they start wasting a bunch of money. Not every place is a Copenhagen. Nor wants to be.

Development and land use is a highly contentious issue, and different in every locality, depending on what the people there actually want.

Politicians should be listening to the concerned citizens, that live there.
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Re: Agenda 21

Unread postby dinopello » Tue 24 Feb 2015, 20:00:25

Agenda 21 is not relevant to the US or at least shouldn't be. It's only being used by those against sustainable development/smart growth/walkable communities to make it sound like a UN imposed mandate. The US has the best planners in the world, doing great work where the local communities have made it legal for them to do so. These are the most wealthy and successful communities in the US.

The problem in the US is first to commit to it, the second problem is how to deal with the success. Walkable communities are in such high demand that the poor are quickly displaced and the problem becomes one of how to bring the much needed working class poor (dishwashers, busboys, nanny's, etc) and middle middle class (teachers, waiters, firefighters, police, construction, tradesmen) back into the community.

The Unintended Consequence of Success

As the public demand for walkable neighborhoods has increased, low- to moderate-income residents are being priced out of those neighborhoods. And unfortunately, the public policy regarding housing affordability in the United States remains “drive until you qualify.”

Thus began Chris Leinberger of the Brookings Institution at a recent seminar entitled “Walkable Neighborhoods: How to Make Them for Everyone,” sponsored by the Coalition for Smarter Growth.
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Re: Agenda 21

Unread postby Sixstrings » Tue 24 Feb 2015, 21:34:56

dinopello wrote:As the public demand for walkable neighborhoods has increased, low- to moderate-income residents are being priced out of those neighborhoods. And unfortunately, the public policy regarding housing affordability in the United States remains “drive until you qualify.”

Thus began Chris Leinberger of the Brookings Institution at a recent seminar entitled “Walkable Neighborhoods: How to Make Them for Everyone,” sponsored by the Coalition for Smarter Growth.


Right. Well, there ya go, it's just another "gated community" concept -- but bigger and walkable. And worse, "mixed use" so the business and retail is now IN the gated community. While the working class masses live outside this gleaming Sustainable Community on a Hill.

So in other words, it's just another sham sounds like. Same as it ever was -- 90% supporting a 10% arugala whole foods class that gets to be "green" and feel good. And that somehow saves the planet?

There's actually a "walkable" town like this an hour from me. It's gorgeous. Working class cannot afford to live there though, so they drive in or bus in. Where THEY live is not one of these "green" eco sustainable whatevers.

Then we've got some areas out east, and same thing, the people that work in the little shops cannot afford to live in that walkable community.

Long story short -- the planet has not been saved -- the poor fill the suburbs, and in a Brazil etc. they fill the shanties and tenements. Walkable communities are sure pretty though, if you can afford to buy in.

Image

Are the little yellow dots the poor, disheveled masses that will support the "green" gated community?
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Re: Agenda 21

Unread postby dinopello » Tue 24 Feb 2015, 21:40:23

Sixstrings wrote:
dinopello wrote:As the public demand for walkable neighborhoods has increased, low- to moderate-income residents are being priced out of those neighborhoods. And unfortunately, the public policy regarding housing affordability in the United States remains “drive until you qualify.”

Thus began Chris Leinberger of the Brookings Institution at a recent seminar entitled “Walkable Neighborhoods: How to Make Them for Everyone,” sponsored by the Coalition for Smarter Growth.


Right. Well, there ya go, it's just another "gated community" concept -


Right, except it's the exact opposite of that.
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Re: Agenda 21

Unread postby Sixstrings » Tue 24 Feb 2015, 21:41:48

dinopello wrote:Right, except it's the exact opposite of that.


How do you mean? Am I really understanding this right, that the gate is just moved to enclose the working class?

I think I'm getting the concept, I'm no expert on this, but I do see this in my area with the newer developments over the last 20 years.

I fail to see how it saves the planet. The upper classes have always run away from the poor, to get out of having to mix with them, this stuff started in early 1900s. The very first "suburbs" were back then, before cars even, and people would take trains out to the burbs then back to work in the city.

So I guess the new concept is the burbs have the jobs too, and everything OUTSIDE the privileged green zone remains a mess?

(I've now managed to attack Agenda 21 from the right AND left. :lol: You know, this one town I'm talking about really is gorgeous and it's all walkable and everyone rides bikes. I have a family member that lives there. Personally I can't afford to, I own my place out among the yellow dotted class. So anyhow, this place is just gorgeous, birds are singing, trees everywhere, everything is clean and shiny and it's Pleasntville -- and those poor drive in or ride the bus in and then they go back home at dusk, to their non "green" sprawl. Let's face it -- "green" is expensive.

And it's nice.. but.. I don't know.. it's so sanitized. Like Stepford wife people. It's the Gated Community expanded.)

edit: and by the way, see, this thing just warrants some discussion. You can't just swallow anything that has GREEN labeled on it, without thinking about it, just because!

Image

Maybe it's just the same old thing, with a different color.. which is fine.. just don't be all "green" and smug about it like it's saving the planet if there's still a bunch of poor shanties that support it all outside the green zones..
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Re: Agenda 21

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Wed 25 Feb 2015, 01:53:07

Sixstrings wrote:Did a news search:
“FEMA has proclaimed the entire town of Sun River in the floodplain,” he said. “I cannot build on my property. No one can. I can't put a sewer system in.” [/b]
BIG GOVERNMENT from Washington DC is one thing, if you expand that out to Geneva Switzerland or Brussels or wherever, then that's another thing entirely.
Yah, if Sun River floods the Gubmint will declare it a disaster area and they will get Gubmint money for reconstruction. You Florida taxpayers don't mind paying for that, since you get lots of Gubmint money to re-re-re-rebuild after hurricanes.
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Re: Agenda 21

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Wed 25 Feb 2015, 02:16:03

Yep, whatever the issue, the Tea Party is there to represent the big money interests that want to enslave the common man. They are the folks that will walk all over each other to be the first in line for the yummy cyanide Kool-Aid.

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Re: Agenda 21

Unread postby Quinny » Wed 25 Feb 2015, 04:18:09

Even more speechless - especially now the idiot has decided to take over this asylum!
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Re: Agenda 21

Unread postby Pops » Wed 25 Feb 2015, 10:05:24

Quinny wrote:Even more speechless - especially now the idiot has decided to take over this asylum!

Follow this link, then click "Add Foe"
It will make the thread much shorter.
:)
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Re: Agenda 21

Unread postby Quinny » Wed 25 Feb 2015, 12:21:24

I think I've only ever done that once - it's a sort of cross between freedom of speech and the sheer entertainment value. It's healthy to raise the blood pressure once in a while :)
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Re: Agenda 21

Unread postby Timo » Wed 25 Feb 2015, 13:12:39

Quinny wrote:I think I've only ever done that once - it's a sort of cross between freedom of speech and the sheer entertainment value. It's healthy to raise the blood pressure once in a while :)

Thanks for the reminder. I forgot to take my little pill this morning.
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Re: Agenda 21

Unread postby Sixstrings » Wed 25 Feb 2015, 15:29:00

Quinny wrote:I think I've only ever done that once - it's a sort of cross between freedom of speech and the sheer entertainment value. It's healthy to raise the blood pressure once in a while :)


Well putting people on ignore isn't an answer to anything. That won't convince them on green issues, to just ignore them, nor to throw them into "climate change agenda denier dungeon." What's next, Agenda 21 Prison Camp? (sorry, couldn't resist)

There can't be greens, without anti-greens.

There can't be a Russia, without a Not Russia.

There couldn't be a Thatcher, without a crazy British socialist yelling at her. There can't be crazy British socialists, without British UKIP and tories.


Without Republicans -- we Americans too would have government employees whose only job is to count and catalog 16 million butterflies. Funded by no less than 9 different government agencies.

If the other side is just put on ignore -- then all you've got is a leftist dictatorship.

I have to say, conservatives are actually more tolerant of dissent and criticism than liberals are. I'm an independent, I argue both sides of issues as warranted. Who's got me on ignore on this forum -- it's all far left people.

I think I've been a service in this thread. First of all, the thread was started in a confrontational "those tea partiers are so crazy" tone.

I think I fairly explored the issue out, and then Dino made a VERY good post of real substance getting into the nitty gritty of development and what these new "walkable green communities" really mean. It means the poor folk live in the shanties and bus into work, otuside the green zone, it's segregation all over again, that's what it means.

Which I'm not even against -- economic segregation anyhow -- people have always wanted to create communities that THEY want and the keep the lower class OUT except for them to come into work. So wonderful, "Agenda 21" and newer green development thinking puts a feel-good "save the planet" whtiewash on it so everyone can feel smug about it and I guess nobody can question it, from the right or left.

This whole forum can ignore me if it wants, that's just less people arguing with me. But I'll tell you something, I help get to the truth on things. I make people think. I stir the pot, and then maybe someone that really knows a thing or two chimes in.
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Re: Agenda 21

Unread postby Sixstrings » Wed 25 Feb 2015, 15:50:53

And here's some other truth I got to the bottom of.

That LECEI sounds like a super lefty socialist dominated thing. Look at the governing structure, it just looks anti-democratic:

Image

Look at that thing. Only a socialist could cook that up. It looks like the EU layers of bureaucracy, where the real decisions are made in some inner core chamber walled off and buffer zoned and far separated from European voters.

That's the bottom line on this, the LECEI is too socialist and too liberal and a good number of the American membership (from red states) decided to leave it.

And here's a general issue that conservatives probably fear: that maybe socialists want to get their ideas passed through the back door, and under other pretenses, with things like this agenda 21 lecei which is essentially an NGO -- I've studied Russia so much lately, I tell ya something, they really hate these NGO's and distrust them too.

It's political influence and control coming in from the outside, and that's what conservatives will always resist, whatever country they are in. Over here, Republicans like more limited government and states have more power and Washington DC limited -- so of course they will always be leary of any government coming out of Switzerland, Brussels, or Bonn Germany.

I'm in the middle on all this. Not all socialism is bad. But when it's bad, it's very bad, and you can't even do anything about it because it's the government and you're just stuck with it. At least you can quit your job, if you don't like it, but you cannot quit a socialist government gone bad.

You all should at least just recognize the very real philosophical differences between conservatives and liberals, and that both have valid views, and you could be understanding that for goodness sake -- OF COURSE a "UN Agenda 21" is going to be met with suspicion. Dig a little deeper, and sure enough, they've got this byzantine power structure. So what's that about. Same as the EU structure. We all know what it's about, it's about a minority controlling a majority and limiting their voice.

Anyhow, back on topic, anti agenda 21 bill failed in Montana:




But looks like there's a bill up in Tennessee:



And let me just say it again -- I'm not right wing nut -- Agenda 21 is not some doomsday NWO conspiracy, but IT IS TOO SOCIALIST AND conservatives apparently don't like it. Maybe that Agenda 21 cities group in Germany should make some changes, so cities and counties in the US stop dropping out of it.

I noticed on their website they don't even list the member cities and counties. So why is that, I wonder? Well, they likely don't want people calling up their county commissioner about it. See that's what you see over and over with socialism and the climate change people -- they really want to suppress, they don't want to convince you and compromise, they want to force you.

I read a lot of UK news over the years, and I'll tell ya something, a lot of Brits have had it over there with all the climate change stuff.
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Re: Agenda 21

Unread postby Quinny » Wed 25 Feb 2015, 15:56:56

6 you are not an independent. You are extremely right wing and nearly always support the establishment POV. You also totally ignore information provided and bang on with your right wing agenda with literally no evidence to support your extremist ideas. You are entertaining and amusing in some ways, but I don't think anybody from the right or the left takes you seriously [well apart from the odd Ukie Nazi]. More than 10,000 posts means you treat this forum seriously, I find it difficult to understand why anyone would want to post on topics they obviously don't have either the capability to understand or the willingness to properly research the subject. The inevitable conclusion is a paid troll, but who would be stupid enough to pay for what you post beggars belief.
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Re: Agenda 21

Unread postby Sixstrings » Wed 25 Feb 2015, 16:12:45

Quinny wrote:More than 10,000 posts means you treat this forum seriously,


I just like talking to you guys and I learn things.

Maybe all of you dislike me, fine. What have I walked away with from this thread, though? At least I know what Agenda 21 is now, I'd never heard of it before. And it's made me thing about local development and urban planning. Not that I'll do anything about that, I cant' be bothered to go down to the country commission meetings. :lol:

But I've walked away with more understanding, and you have too, so what's your gripe. Do you guys just want echo chamber threads where everyone agrees with you? That really seems to be what you want, most of all in the environmentalist threads.

There's a neighboring city to me that is a member of that agenda 21 lcei or whatever cities group. They're a bit more lefty than people in my city. So over there, I don't know if it's coincidental or not, but yes they have more lefty city type things like nicer parks and urban planning and walkable areas. But I'll tell you something, they've got their poor walled off into ghettos too.

And they've got anti-loitering and anti-sleeping ordinances, to keep the street people out of those nice parks. So what happened, all the street people just came into my town. The other city gets to be so green and smug, saving the planet I guess, but really the poverty was just pushed outside.

I'm not anti-green, I may actually go move over there eventually -- who doesn't love a gated community without having to look at poor people -- but what gets at me, a lot, is the overall hypocrisy of the green movement. They're often elitists, by another name. They won't allow walmarts in, but yet they don't want working class / poor folks either much less provide a place they could afford to shop in.

Let's take a look at France. What does "green," socialist France look like. A lot of it is quite nice -- but their poor are also walled off, into huge tenement complexes. I think the UK is about the same, no?

So what is this green cities thing about, really? How does it save the planet if it's just green for the rich, with the lower 90% supporting it but they don't get to live shiny green because they're so damn poor?

P.S. You all just don't get my style. It's the same style supreme courts do argument, with. A justice will often ask crazy questions and go down extreme paths of reasoning -- just to hear the counterpoint. It's just a way to explore issues.
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Re: Agenda 21

Unread postby Quinny » Wed 25 Feb 2015, 16:22:09

Where do you get your information from? This is absolute nonsense!

Let's take a look at France. What does "green," socialist France look like. A lot of it is quite nice -- but their poor are also walled off, into huge tenement complexes. I think the UK is about the same, no?
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Re: Agenda 21

Unread postby dinopello » Wed 25 Feb 2015, 16:29:23

Quinny wrote:Where do you get your information from? This is absolute nonsense!


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