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[Opinion] 5 Rules for PO Prep.

If you are through speculating, this is the place to discuss actions you are taking.

Re: [Opinion] 5 Rules for PO Prep.

Unread postby Ang » Mon 04 Feb 2008, 14:07:51

Dry wrote:"You should be about 1 million dollors in debt when it hits the fan....slide away to your hidedy spot and lay low.


Crikey, I'm about 993,521.00 dollars short of that goal, how do I catch up?

Good call on machete's and spears etc...we have guns and rifles coming out the hoo haw but no hand to hand stuff, really. However, if they are that close I guess I can bust open some heads with my cast iron pots & pans. I really prefer that my preps serve a dual purpose anyway.
...the rest of you just beat your useless gums at the moon like jimson weed goats. - efarmer
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Re: [Opinion] 5 Rules for PO Prep.

Unread postby Pops » Mon 04 Feb 2008, 14:12:35

Ang wrote:
Dry wrote:"You should be about 1 million dollors in debt when it hits the fan....slide away to your hidedy spot and lay low.


Crikey, I'm about 993,521.00 dollars short of that goal, how do I catch up?

Good call on machete's and spears etc...we have guns and rifles coming out the hoo haw but no hand to hand stuff, really. However, if they are that close I guess I can bust open some heads with my cast iron pots & pans. I really prefer that my preps serve a dual purpose anyway.

Great post Ang!
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Re: [Opinion] 5 Rules for PO Prep.

Unread postby Ang » Mon 04 Feb 2008, 14:26:38

Aww shucks, thanks Pops!
(I think I'm blushing !!)
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Re: 5 Rules for PO Preperation

Unread postby goodmaj » Sat 16 Feb 2008, 23:29:19

wisconsin_cur wrote:This ol' dog tries to put his principles in positive language.

Cur's Investment for Peak Oil:

1. Invest in infrastructure These are the durable goods other posters have talked about. A wood stove, good hand tools, food safe containers, insulated curtains, fruit trees and bushes. Whatever might be needed to live without the modern industrial complex.

2. Invest in knowledge Learn to save seeds, transfer an engine to run on alcohol, how to distill alcohol, reload ammo or whatever you think will be the needed skills to utilyze that infrastructure. If you can produce something that would be trade-able that is great also. Included in this principle is the purchase of some general homesteading books. We do not know what we will need to know so some reference to help with future problem solving (topics from geometry to field surgery to building snares) are invaluable.

3. Invest in freedom. This is the "get out of debt principle." What binds you to the system. If you do not want to go down with it you have to be able to cut yourself free as it sinks. This includes every thing that would keep you from "hitting the ground" if things blow up in our face.

4. Invest in security. For some this will be an arsenal, for others it will community building. Yet it also includes taking a lower paying but recession resistant job. I want to be able to ride the wave as long as possible.

In the real world I need to balance these. It would be great were I financially able to implement them all perfectly... if the peak holds off long enough perhaps I will. I use these principles to weigh each decision. Right now investing in infrastructure takes priority next will be the investment in freedom.

works for me.


These are good starting points. But, you need to be able to protect your assets, especially food. This doesn't necessarily mean stand and fight. You must chose wisely in the Flight or Fight scenario. With proper planning (and good camoflage) you may remove your need to fight. Fighting once increases your chances of getting you and your family killed. Multiple fights almost guarantees it.

I guess what I'm saying is "don't put your eggs in one basket". Have some that gets 'taken' to protect most of it that don't. Also, have multiple fall back points. Remember, the name of the game is to survive until the majority is gone. Roving bands will eventually die out too.

Once the anarchy stage dies down, then you will need to find a good community of survivors. Long term survival will need community.
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Re: [Opinion] 5 Rules for PO Prep.

Unread postby GreenOil08 » Thu 13 Mar 2008, 23:43:59

It's quite funny how you think that there will be a community!?!? for long term survival. Hahahahaha. That's good. Really good.

There is NO long term survival. Lets face some facts here. If science tells us anything and History, you'll quickly see that we're all doomed. Think about it for a sec. Noone is going to ever give up and live in the "farm age" It'll never happen. Period.

Due to the Energy wars that will without a doubt ensue shrotly after the peak is really felt. Which we will feel it next year for sure.

Then it's simple, really. As these wars are raging on and on. At one point one country will say "I'll show these guys" and launch about half a dozen nukes.......mmmmmmcan you just smell it! Then the other country in defense will launch about half a dozen if not more than that. And BAM you've got a nuclear winter. A man made Ice age, where the "farm age" falls down. Face it folks, no one is going to survive long term. It will be the end of mankind. Mark my words.

Also if the nukes don't get us, we've got a nice big asteriod heading straight for us.....coming in 2039.
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Re: [Opinion] 5 Rules for PO Prep.

Unread postby mos6507 » Fri 14 Mar 2008, 02:25:49

GreenOil08 wrote:Due to the Energy wars that will without a doubt ensue shrotly after the peak is really felt.


This is a distinct possibility, but not written in stone. With someone like Bush in the whitehouse, it might be, but with a new administration, someone with some actual diplomatic skills, maybe there can be a fresh start to international relations, even if it means holding our noses and making nice with heretofore pariah states.
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Re: 5 Rules for PO Preperation

Unread postby gypsybiker45 » Sun 23 Mar 2008, 09:59:39

truecougarblue wrote:I'm west of the rockies so mine vary some, but I agree with Pops for the most part. It seems his idea in general is to hide in plain sight and live today like he would have lived before the jet age.

#1 Secure a water source.
#2 Store a years supply of food and antibiotics.
#3 Maintain first aid training
#4 Garden (verb)
#5 Join your local police reserve, or search and rescue group.

I agree with the first four rules, #5 is BS, screw the cops in a post crash they will be the new SS, they can all rot in h***
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Re: [Opinion] 5 Rules for PO Prep.

Unread postby dooberheim » Sun 30 Mar 2008, 05:46:08

I don't really have any rules to add that haven't been already covered.

To the poster that wanted tp get bariatric surgery - DON'T. This procedure will leave you dependent on vitamin supplements, which may be hard to get in imes ahead. Same with any other procedure that will leave you dependent on modern medicine. Actually, being fat may be of use in a famine - you'll have a lot of stored energy, and as you lose weight you will be stronger.

Another thought is about a SO. If you haven't found someone before a crash, forget the idea during and after one. New interest from a member of the opposte sex (or same, if you're gay) must always be viewed suspiciously. It is too easy to be manipulated in that fashion, and all of your preps stolen after the "SO" shoots you (with your own gun) in your sleep. Trust is something to build before the crash.

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Re: [Opinion] 5 Rules for PO Prep.

Unread postby BigTex » Sun 30 Mar 2008, 08:10:19

dooberheim wrote:Another thought is about a SO. If you haven't found someone before a crash, forget the idea during and after one. New interest from a member of the opposte sex (or same, if you're gay) must always be viewed suspiciously. It is too easy to be manipulated in that fashion, and all of your preps stolen after the "SO" shoots you (with your own gun) in your sleep. Trust is something to build before the crash.


That reminds me of that episode of "Happy Days" where the Cunninghams were going to build a bomb shelter and this pretty girl all the sudden wanted to date Richie. Well, Howard decided not to build the bomb shelter and the pretty girl decided she didn't want to go out with Richie any more.

This thread has taken a turn for the worse. What happened to the five rules? I did mine a couple of pages back, but this last page looks like the text-logs from "To Catch A Doomer."
:)
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Re: [Opinion] 5 Rules for PO Prep.

Unread postby Jenab6 » Sat 05 Apr 2008, 12:47:37

OK. You have your fortified retreat, your guns, your bullets, your food supplies, your water system, your crank flashlights, your outhouse, a garden in the backyard, an orchard growing in the southern quarter, your fences are up (including the rolls of barbed wire and the signs that tell trespassers how gruesomely they might expect to die). Now what?

Did you forget entertainment? Besides sex and violence, I mean.

Have on hand a supply of books. These come in several types.

1. Interesting technical books that make you feel uplifted and important, assuming you can comprehend the equations.

2. How-To-Do-It-Dummy books that show you how to do things which are useful in survival situations and in low-tech cultures.

3. Historical books that detail how human cultures were led, largely with lies, stupidity and cowardice, and especially during the Era of Petroleum-Fueled Exuberance.

4. Fun fictional novels. Romance (for your girlfriend to get in the mood and stay there). Science fiction for you. Fantasy for you both.

I'd keep the books in the first category to a minimum, unless you can imagine why your children and grandchildren will need to be able to solve the equations of stellar structure for Sirius. These books are primarily to gratify your sense of nostalgia and give you feelings of enjoyment in return for all the money you spent on the wrong education.

The books in the 2nd category will be useful to every generation of your folk, though in time they will become heavily augmented, if not replaced, by practical traditions for farming, animal husbandry, carpentry, brickmaking, building with stone, medicine, having babies, raising children, roofing, trapping/hunting, spying on possible enemies, making and using weapons, war strategy, etc. But in the beginning, everybody will be people who were accustomed to letting institutions and experts do all the thinking and will, therefore, be ignorant and in need of reference material.

In the 3rd category, I could suggest proper historical material, but you wouldn't listen to me. So just pick books that have slants agreeable to you. Enough said.

As to the 4th category, here are my suggestions.

4a. A Song of Ice and Fire. This is a series in progress, with four very lengthy novels and a prequel so far completed, by George R.R. Martin. It's the best fantasy tale I've ever read.

4b. Lyonesse. A trilogy by Jack Vance. It's the next best fantasy tale that I've ever read.

4c. Deverry. A series in progress, by Katharine Kerr, with 14 novels of quite respectable length so far completed.

4d. Farseer. A trilogy by Robin Hobb. It is followed by a pair of sequel trilogies, which you might also want to procure: nine large volumes in all.

4e. Earth's Children. A speculative history fantasy series about people living during the last Ice Age, about 25000 years ago, by Jean M. Auel. The predominant religion seems to be about nature and fertility, so there are quite a few graphic sex scenes scattered through most of the books.

4f. Riftwar Saga, as well as subsequent/related series, by Raymond E. Feist. Swashbuckling adventure fantasy of very good quality.

4g. These books by Robert Heinlein: The Rolling Stones, Methuselah's Children, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Time Enough For Love, Starship Troopers, The Number of the Beast, The Cat Who Walked through Walls, To Sail Beyond the Sunset.

4h. Darwath, a series by Barbara Hambly. Semi-horror fantasy about what can happen if invading monsters aren't stopped soon enough.

4i. Dune, a series by Frank Herbert, involving a harsh desert environment, limited resources, and religious fanaticism.

4j. Battlefield Earth, by L. Ron Hubbard. A very lengthy book about a hero who leads his people in war against an alien occupation, and then saves the world again from a gang of galactic bankers!

4k. The Wheel of Time, by Robert Jordan. Great fantasy with lots of political intrigue. Eleven very long books and a medium sized prequel have been published. The author died before issuing the final volume, but this is now being written (from Jordan's notes) by another able storywriter and should be published soon.

4l. The Lord of the Rings, by J.R.R. Tolkien, the man who began the return of high fantasy in modern times. He's a master of magical atmosphere, the kind where a rumble of thunder in the distance has a profound philosophical meaning that you can just barely sense (but can't quite understand).

4m. The Saga of Recluce, by L.E. Modesitt, Jr. The usual form of this 13 (going on 15) volume series is "young boy goes out into the world and makes something of himself," and, by the way, there are powerful people who want to kill him and probably would have if it hadn't been for the warning and/or help of his brave girlfriend.

4n. Mars, a trilogy about interplanetary colonization by Kim Stanley Robinson. It's a pastoral tale about what mankind might have done if he had more correctly invested the terrestrial supply of fossil fuels. Consider it an alternative history, a might-have-been, to teach your youngsters how dangerous it is to let fools (like our leaders in the real world) have power.

4o. FORGOTTEN REALMS is a universe containing several different series, the best of which are by Ed Greenwood (Elminster), R.A. Salvatore (Drizzt do'Urden), and Elaine Cunningham. Mostly easy reading, but there are some moral lessons to be found.

4p. These books by Clifford D. Simak: The Goblin Reservation, Project Pope. Most of his other books are also excellent, but these two will give you the flavor.

4q. Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn, a series by Tad Williams comprised of four volumes, the first two being of moderate length, the other two considerably longer.

I'm presently on a tour of modern fantasy literature. Or, rather, I will return to that tour after I've finished William R. Catton's OVERSHOOT, the Ecological Basis of Revolutionary Change. So if I think about it, I might return to this post and lengthen it some. There are many series that I suspect are also quite good, but I haven't had time to read them yet.

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Re: [Opinion] 5 Rules for PO Prep.

Unread postby kpeavey » Sun 06 Apr 2008, 13:15:01

1 The Money. This means giving up things, getting a handle on the bills, wiping out debt. Cut expenses until it hurts, then cut some more. Retrospect in a depression will show you there were lots of things you could have given up. Without debt comes freedom and the ability to enhance your position. I've been rich and I've been poor. It is better to be rich.
2 The Tools. Be it a saw, a frying pan, or the knowledge to make bread. Tools which function by buman power, have no moving parts, and can be repaired using what is available are best. Tools, with skills falling under the category, offer a survival advantage.
3 The People. Friends, neighbors relatives, coworkers. Develop the group. Be sure they know what you can do, find out what they can do. An important reminder, don't open your mouth about what you have. When the shit goes down, those peole will be all you have.
4 Location, Location, Location. Get out of the city. A small community of self reliant individuals and families is the goal. Consider climate and future climate. Avoid the beach, rivers leading to/from large cities, major roads and highways, and military installations.
5 The Resources. Clean water, clean air, good earth, trees, pasture, even rocks. Identify what you have to work with.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--for ever."
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Re: [Opinion] 5 Rules for PO Prep.

Unread postby Pops » Mon 07 Apr 2008, 13:02:56

Five I can agree with kp.
Plans are nothing; planning is everything.
--Dwight Eisenhower

We don't see things like they are, we see them as we are.
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Re: [Opinion] 5 Rules for PO Prep.

Unread postby charliebrownout » Thu 17 Apr 2008, 20:22:31

I'm new, and I truly hope doomsday will not be the end result (although I can see it on the horizon), so bear with me.

Here are my five:

DO become deeply involved in positive, workable, social networks (church for me, could be something else for others). Strengthen ties with good people interested in community, and capable/commited to a better future.

DO invest in your mind. Dump your pocketbook into your head (Franklin) buy books to help you learn HOW to do things (survival, medicine, agriculture, science, etc).

DO NOT buy useless crap. If you must buy, buy things that will last (sturdy clothes/shoes and tools).

DO move to a place that suits your needs (urban or rural...but forget the suburbs alltogether).

DO get rid of ALL debt and don't take on any more.


That's what I can see. I'm sure there are better ones, but that's what I'm able to do at the moment. God help us all if I ever got a firearm or weapons. I'm accident prone enough as it is! :razz
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Re: [Opinion] 5 Rules for PO Prep.

Unread postby Pops » Thu 17 Apr 2008, 21:13:01

charliebrownout wrote:I'm accident prone enough as it is! :razz

I'm with you on that CBO.

Anyway thanks for your 5, and thanks for putting them up - I wouldn't argue with any.

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Plans are nothing; planning is everything.
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Re: [Opinion] 5 Rules for PO Prep.

Unread postby Pops » Wed 23 Apr 2008, 12:47:44

Ive already mentioned somewhere else that I've disproven portions of my rule #3, and events are disproving portions of #4 so here is my new and improved Five:

Pops Five Don’ts:

Don't buy - Quit buying crap and learn to live on less.

Don't borrow - Get out of debt and stay out, things will go waay downhill before your creditors will quit looking for you - they will need income too and will always have the upper hand.

Don't specialize - Diversify your sources of income, [s]it's easy to tell if your job will be hurt, but[/s] it's hard to be certain it won't be affected no matter how much you study or think you know.

Don't go hungry – Stock up and rotate necessities and grow and preserve as much food as you can– [s]not because they will become unavailable but because[/s] at some point (hopefully temporarily) you may not be able to afford them or they may be unavailable.

Don't be dependent - Try to become more independent from infrastructures of all kinds – especially those for which you have to pay.
Plans are nothing; planning is everything.
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Re: [Opinion] 5 Rules for PO Prep.

Unread postby sdcoyote » Fri 25 Apr 2008, 16:21:38

My 5 might be a bit different than other folks, or maybe not so much...

1. Invest in my SO and my kids. This is a scary time. The kids feel it too, even tho I might not be talking to them about it (they are 3 and 5 - we adopted them 2 years ago). I need to make them more of a part of the overall plan. Teach them how to tell a weed from a potato. The wife knows it too - she understands in some ways better than I (grew up with a single mom - very poor). Anyway, I need to invest as much time, energy, love, etc into this family unit as I possibly can.

2. Always be wary of things that "look pretty" but are not sound - buy the things that are sound - no matter how they look. Humans are attracted to pretty paint. I don't know why.

3. Build a library of essentials. Even if society blows apart - if I know "how" the rest is easy.

4. Have enough supplies for 1 year. This is a personal fetish. Again, if it all disintegrates, give me a year and I can start over. The only caveat to this rule is medical stuff - the more the merrier. Some it may be irreplaceable.

5. People are fine in moderation. We have purposely developed hard friendships with 2 seperate couples who also are quite self-sufficient. We will need those couples in the future and they will need us.
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Re: [Opinion] 5 Rules for PO Prep.

Unread postby Pops » Fri 02 May 2008, 12:12:45

I split off the posts about guns to Here.

Lets keep this thread for 5 rules only and debates details elsewhere, OK?

:)
Plans are nothing; planning is everything.
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Re: [Opinion] 5 Rules for PO Prep.

Unread postby katkinkate » Sat 03 May 2008, 04:31:54

GreenOil08 wrote:It's quite funny how you think that there will be a community!?!? for long term survival. Hahahahaha. That's good. Really good.

There is NO long term survival. Lets face some facts here. If science tells us anything and History, you'll quickly see that we're all doomed. Think about it for a sec. Noone is going to ever give up and live in the "farm age" It'll never happen. Period.

Due to the Energy wars that will without a doubt ensue shrotly after the peak is really felt. Which we will feel it next year for sure.

Then it's simple, really. As these wars are raging on and on. At one point one country will say "I'll show these guys" and launch about half a dozen nukes.......mmmmmmcan you just smell it! Then the other country in defense will launch about half a dozen if not more than that. And BAM you've got a nuclear winter. A man made Ice age, where the "farm age" falls down. Face it folks, no one is going to survive long term. It will be the end of mankind. Mark my words.

Also if the nukes don't get us, we've got a nice big asteriod heading straight for us.....coming in 2039.


A nuclear winter will only last as long as it takes for most of the dust (that's blocking the sun) to fall back out of the stratisphere ... about 2-4 years. If most of the nukes explode in the northern hemisphere, the southern will be only very lightly affected, because the worst of the dust will have fallen out before it has a chance to mix fully with the southern atmosphere. So Australia, S America and S.Africa will have many more survivors.

Ooops, sorry Pops.

My 5 rules: maximise independence from 'the system', maximise links with family and community, learn as much as you can, practice what you learn, look after your health (and teeth).
Kind regards, Katkinkate

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but the cultivation and perfection of human beings."
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Re: [Opinion] 5 Rules for PO Prep.

Unread postby mikeh433 » Sat 03 May 2008, 11:11:40

1) If you do buy supplies, tools, etc. DO NOT buy Chinese manufactured stuff. I have gone through maybe 4 bicycles in 4 years - inexpensive and for a reason - they use the shoddiest metal and components. Other items break after 1 or 2 uses. Between money (gold) and useful items, get useful items, because when they become scarce, you will have a heck of a time finding it, nevermind bargaining for it, just finding it anywhere.

2) Rely on infrastructure - family, friends, community - the government won't be there. Also the cosmic infrastructure is good.

3) Technology will bail us out - eventually. For me, spiritual technology and anything of interest. If you are like stuck in a prison cell somewhere (might be similar) have things of interest.

4) This tough period is for cleansing the earth of undesirables - mainly the ruling class government/corporate and other negative entities. What follows is a golden age of Aquarius - inventions galore and peace will rule the earth. (I got this from an "enlightened guy" whose lectures I attended a few in the 1980's. http://maharishiphotos.com/lecture1.html . He would open a lecture sometimes "Is there ANYTHING that anyone here would like to know". Or he might say "I remember this president from Atlantis", "Never ever board on a cigar shaped vessel (space craft)".

5) You WILL learn to do without, or with what you can make on your own. Whether you wish to or not. Economic collapse is in the cards and in one month I suspect.
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Re: [Opinion] 5 Rules for PO Prep.

Unread postby dolem98 » Thu 08 May 2008, 01:02:04

1. Emotionally: Keep practical and don't despair. Keep a normal routine and don't spend all day obsessing over peak oil.

2. Economically: Invest wisely and be prepared to pull out in advance of problems. Become a have instead of a have-not (if you can). Live like a have-not.

3. Mentally: Keep learning new things. Nobody here or anywhere can predict exactly what PO will be like, so you want to be a quick thinker with a repertoire of skills, able to handle any situation.

4. Physically: Exercise outside the gym. Your body quickly gets used to a routine workout, so mix it up constantly. Learn to eat a simple, healthy diet.

5. Socially: Choose a unit of size that works for you. If it's a unit of one, prepare yourself to the utmost- be a ninja. If it's your family, do anything in your power to keep your family healthy, happy, loving and prepared. If it is your friends, start talking about your ideas and plans. If it is your neighborhood or community - organize.
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