1 Adult / 1 Year - How much food?

[Pretorian]

It's just not a big deal, unless you've grown up in the U.S. during the oil age, when virtually any food imaginable is yours, when you want it.

yeah, you can copypaste this into any doomer thread. Doom and gloom. Supermarkets in my area dont want to stock up more than a dozen ears of fresh corn on the comb! In the middle of February?! Oh horror! It is coming! It is near! Minimum wage is so low nowdays that it buys only 200 pounds of flour a day, at retail prices! What are they eating?! They must be soo hungry!

[Puddnhead]

I really like Sharon Astyk's book (Independence Days) on food storage. Her basic point is that food storage should not just be for emergencies, but a part of how you eat seasonally. That way you are both eating from and replacing your stores as throughout the year. She also has a lot of good tips for doing it on a budget.

[vtsnowedin]

I really like Sharon Astyk's book (Independence Days) on food storage. Her basic point is that food storage should not just be for emergencies, but a part of how you eat seasonally. That way you are both eating from and replacing your stores as throughout the year. She also has a lot of good tips for doing it on a budget.

Welcome to the board Puddnhead.
I haven't had the pleasure of reading that book but the point is well taken.
How would you rate the chances of needing to live off your stockpile of food for a whole year? Or two weeks or three months? We have all sorts of lesser disasters that are far more frequent then the collapse of government and food distribution systems. Floods, hurricanes, earthquakes, blizzards, wildfires all happen and can leave you to your own devices for days or weeks and there is always the potential for you personally being laid off or suffering a disabling illness or injury.

[oowolf]

I did a serious study of my calorie requirements when I was in my mid 40s and still working in a sawmill. As I recall the result came to between 900K and 1 Million calories per year; that's around 600 pounds of dry carbohydrate (flour, sugar, beans, rice, etc.) 600 # of flour is currently $350-400. Yum, hardtack for a year.
The enforced monotony of the post-carbon diet will be hard for many to swallow, as will the loss of "fast food". Foraged food is the most efficient as it requires only identifying and harvesting. Remember, food has an EROEI factor too: if it requires more calories to produce than it provides, the effort is wasted.

[PeakOiler]

Below is a chart from 'Count Your Calories,' Dell Books/Mags Pub., 1978. Your numbers may vary depending on many factors of course, which is open to discussion.



Here is an example using the following data and assumptions:

My desirable weight is 176 lbs for this 52-yr-old body. (I'm currently 14 lbs underweight.) I need to consume about 2,950 calories per day. Pecans are the highest energy crop (cal/gram) produced on my property. Shelled pecans are 6.86 calories per gram. (There are 454 g/lb.) IF I ate only pecans, I would need to harvest 947 lbs/yr. If each pecan tree produced 40 lb of (shelled) pecans/yr, I would need 24 trees. If there were 10 trees per acre, then I would need 2.4 acres.

The next step of this exercise is to determine how much time would be required to maintain (water, harvest, and process) (i.e., de-hull and shell) that many pecans...

Edit to add image:



The tree shown above produced over 40 lb unshelled pecans in 2007.

[Puddnhead]

I really like Sharon Astyk's book (Independence Days) on food storage. Her basic point is that food storage should not just be for emergencies, but a part of how you eat seasonally. That way you are both eating from and replacing your stores as throughout the year. She also has a lot of good tips for doing it on a budget.

Welcome to the board Puddnhead.
I haven't had the pleasure of reading that book but the point is well taken.
How would you rate the chances of needing to live off your stockpile of food for a whole year? Or two weeks or three months? We have all sorts of lesser disasters that are far more frequent then the collapse of government and food distribution systems. Floods, hurricanes, earthquakes, blizzards, wildfires all happen and can leave you to your own devices for days or weeks and there is always the potential for you personally being laid off or suffering a disabling illness or injury.

Thanks for the welcome! Right now I am slowly building my stores and probably have about 2 months worth. I am canning or drying extra food from my garden and anything that is cheap at the farmers market. I am thinking of building a root cellar. Ideally, I'd like to eat seasonally and do it the way they did a century ago - storing food for the winter, eating what gets stored, and replenishing stores during the growing season. That way I can figure out how to store food sustainably. One year of MRE's lasts for one year. A sustainable system can go on for much longer. I still need to convince my wife to move to some land where we can actually produce enough food to do this, but I am currently happy to support our local farmer's marked until then.

[Blacksmith]

Good form, lots of useful information. During the Great Depression my father and mother survived on one potatoe each per day, that would be supplemented by occasional vegetabes and meat maybe once a month.

[Pops]

Hi puddin, I'm with you, store what you eat: you never waste anything, you always save money buying in bulk and you make few trips to the store.

Here is a good thread if anyone cares to slog through all 34 pages:
(Food) Storage General

[Pretorian]

I think you can pack more than 10 pecans per acre. Anyways, a neat tree.
By the way, does anyone grow hazelnuts? Good yields? Now these I can never get enough of...

Below is a chart from 'Count Your Calories,' Dell Books/Mags Pub., 1978. Your numbers may vary depending on many factors of course, which is open to discussion.



Here is an example using the following data and assumptions:

My desirable weight is 176 lbs for this 52-yr-old body. (I'm currently 14 lbs underweight.) I need to consume about 2,950 calories per day. Pecans are the highest energy crop (cal/gram) produced on my property. Shelled pecans are 6.86 calories per gram. (There are 454 g/lb.) IF I ate only pecans, I would need to harvest 947 lbs/yr. If each pecan tree produced 40 lb of (shelled) pecans/yr, I would need 24 trees. If there were 10 trees per acre, then I would need 2.4 acres.

The next step of this exercise is to determine how much time would be required to maintain (water, harvest, and process) (i.e., de-hull and shell) that many pecans...

Edit to add image:



The tree shown above produced over 40 lb unshelled pecans in 2007.

[vtsnowedin]

Thanks for the welcome! Right now I am slowly building my stores and probably have about 2 months worth. I am canning or drying extra food from my garden and anything that is cheap at the farmers market. I am thinking of building a root cellar. Ideally, I'd like to eat seasonally and do it the way they did a century ago - storing food for the winter, eating what gets stored, and replenishing stores during the growing season. That way I can figure out how to store food sustainably. One year of MRE's lasts for one year. A sustainable system can go on for much longer. I still need to convince my wife to move to some land where we can actually produce enough food to do this, but I am currently happy to support our local farmer's marked until then.

You are a couple of years behind me on building the root cellar etc. but I always kept a freezer full and shelves stocked the way I was brought up. I haven't raised much of my own food in the last decade or so as I was on the commuter treadmill and could not spare the time in the summer when it was most needed.
Don't get too carried away right off. You can scare the bejesus out of your wife if you place too high a priority on preparations for independent living. A few five gallon pails with tight lids full of food under the workbench in your tool room and some cash in a strong box and some camping gear is all you need to get through the most likely emergency situations. She'll tell you when she thinks more then that is needed otherwise it's like herding cats.
Moving to the country onto some productive land sounds nice but having lived in the country all my life the one thing that stands out is "There are no good paying jobs here"!!!!! and as long as big Agrimart farming sets the prices of grain and meat that will not change. Work in the city as long as it lasts.

[HeckuvaJob]

Sam's Club has spaghetti for 83 cents a pound. That mean that a 2,000 calorie diet person can stock 1 years worth of calories for 380 dollars. Family of 4, about 1,500.

Yet they say they dont get paid livable wages.. The nerve that some people have..

Like living wages, daily caloric requirements are also relative.

However 97 eggs with mayo will hit exactly those 25k and it doesnt frighten me with difficulty-- boredom yes. I had never eaten boring meals to hit 25k calories. Nor had I eaten tasty meals to hit certain amount of calories. Mostly, it was pure enjoyment. I would usually fast 12-24-36 hours before I hit some unlucky restaurant (again, not in order to eat more but to enjoy more the food ---when you plow them teeth into a rich, juicy, rare steak with that fat on edges after a long fast it gives you almost an orgasmic feeling)

So, the dinner. How much food can you put on a 12, 13, 14 inch platter? Make a small pyramid on top of it, big enough so if you put anything else on it, you have a small avalanche running down on the floor. Most of that food will be grilled fatty beef, grilled pork, duck, basically everything you can find on a good grill ,all kinds of fried stuff, ets. Make a small side plate with vegetables, fresh, pickled, fried, whatever. Eat that. Repeat 4, 5, 6, 7 times depends on how hungry you are or how small are them dishes. I will speculate its about 3-4 pounds of food including bones ets. On each plate, that is. Lets cut it down to 2 -2.5 pounds of food eaten considering that there will be untasty pieces, bones, or something that will bore you.

Then its time for a snack. Fill up a plate or two with cheeses, olives, pickled onions, dry hams, different salamis of sorts ets. Eat it. I figure 1-1.5 pounds each plate. Then you go to a special cook who makes you pasta you like. Same guy makes some deserts like a big and fine pancake with real caramel on top of it. You'll get a couple of those later. After pasta, you go to the desert table . There is a tray of tiramisu-- i figure about 10-15-20 portions of what is normally served elsewhere-- all yours its too good to miss it. There are other cakes and pies too, make at least one full plate of'em (NOT a desert plate!) Repeat if its really good. Meantime you do all this, there are a couple of big plates of fruit went down to smooth everything down there--pineapples, peaches, kiwis ets.

Take a deep breath. We are almost done. Now its ice-cream time. I pretty much never ate less than 1kg. Usually closer to 2kg, I dont know how would you transfer that to gallons. Don't forget a handfull or two of walnuts/almonds with them.

Now we are done eating, but we are thirsty. After a nice smoke , a couple of 1 liter beers will do. Rarely a 2 liter coke instead (shame, I know). So, what is the count now?

Also, you misspelled your user name.

[PeakOiler]

I think you can pack more than 10 pecans per acre. Anyways, a neat tree.
By the way, does anyone grow hazelnuts? Good yields? Now these I can never get enough of...

Thanks. That tree shown above along my driveway was severely damaged in a wind storm in June, 2009 btw. Lost about 1/4 of the tree.

The other six pecan trees I transplanted to the property are hanging in there, although one is still struggling. It's been tough to establish some of the most recent pecan trees when two of the first three years they got here have seen exceptional drought conditions. I harvested no pecans in 2008.

Water is the limiting factor in this part of the world, that's why my estimate above was only 10 trees per acre...

[Pretorian]

Sam's Club has spaghetti for 83 cents a pound. That mean that a 2,000 calorie diet person can stock 1 years worth of calories for 380 dollars. Family of 4, about 1,500.

Yet they say they dont get paid livable wages.. The nerve that some people have..

Like living wages, daily caloric requirements are also relative.

However 97 eggs with mayo will hit exactly those 25k and it doesnt frighten me with difficulty-- boredom yes. I had never eaten boring meals to hit 25k calories. Nor had I eaten tasty meals to hit certain amount of calories. Mostly, it was pure enjoyment. I would usually fast 12-24-36 hours before I hit some unlucky restaurant (again, not in order to eat more but to enjoy more the food ---when you plow them teeth into a rich, juicy, rare steak with that fat on edges after a long fast it gives you almost an orgasmic feeling)

So, the dinner. How much food can you put on a 12, 13, 14 inch platter? Make a small pyramid on top of it, big enough so if you put anything else on it, you have a small avalanche running down on the floor. Most of that food will be grilled fatty beef, grilled pork, duck, basically everything you can find on a good grill ,all kinds of fried stuff, ets. Make a small side plate with vegetables, fresh, pickled, fried, whatever. Eat that. Repeat 4, 5, 6, 7 times depends on how hungry you are or how small are them dishes. I will speculate its about 3-4 pounds of food including bones ets. On each plate, that is. Lets cut it down to 2 -2.5 pounds of food eaten considering that there will be untasty pieces, bones, or something that will bore you.

Then its time for a snack. Fill up a plate or two with cheeses, olives, pickled onions, dry hams, different salamis of sorts ets. Eat it. I figure 1-1.5 pounds each plate. Then you go to a special cook who makes you pasta you like. Same guy makes some deserts like a big and fine pancake with real caramel on top of it. You'll get a couple of those later. After pasta, you go to the desert table . There is a tray of tiramisu-- i figure about 10-15-20 portions of what is normally served elsewhere-- all yours its too good to miss it. There are other cakes and pies too, make at least one full plate of'em (NOT a desert plate!) Repeat if its really good. Meantime you do all this, there are a couple of big plates of fruit went down to smooth everything down there--pineapples, peaches, kiwis ets.

Take a deep breath. We are almost done. Now its ice-cream time. I pretty much never ate less than 1kg. Usually closer to 2kg, I dont know how would you transfer that to gallons. Don't forget a handfull or two of walnuts/almonds with them.

Now we are done eating, but we are thirsty. After a nice smoke , a couple of 1 liter beers will do. Rarely a 2 liter coke instead (shame, I know). So, what is the count now?

Also, you misspelled your user name.

I am a bit puzzled why did you bundled up these 2 quotes together. Is it a suggestion that everyone is entitled to eat as well as I do? While your logic that lead you to this conclusion eludes me, I can assure you that meals of similar quality can be had for $35 -45-50 per person in several eateries in Las Vegas, so again, every yokel with a minimum wage salary can eat there . EVERY DAY.

[HeckuvaJob]

I am a bit puzzled why did you bundled up these 2 quotes together. Is it a suggestion that everyone is entitled to eat as well as I do? While your logic that lead you to this conclusion eludes me, I can assure you that meals of similar quality can be had for $35 -45-50 per person in several eateries in Las Vegas, so again, every yokel with a minimum wage salary can eat there . EVERY DAY.

The point I am making is: Like living wages, daily caloric requirements are also relative.
People's opinions about what constitutes a living wage vary.
People's opinions about daily caloric requirements also differ, widely in some instances.

I will add that people's opinions about affordable food budgets for those of low income also differ.

[Pretorian]

I am a bit puzzled why did you bundled up these 2 quotes together. Is it a suggestion that everyone is entitled to eat as well as I do? While your logic that lead you to this conclusion eludes me, I can assure you that meals of similar quality can be had for $35 -45-50 per person in several eateries in Las Vegas, so again, every yokel with a minimum wage salary can eat there . EVERY DAY.

The point I am making is: Like living wages, daily caloric requirements are also relative.
People's opinions about what constitutes a living wage vary.
People's opinions about daily caloric requirements also differ, widely in some instances.

I will add that people's opinions about affordable food budgets for those of low income also differ.

While I agree with all that, considering a dinner like that to be a "requirement" is a bit of a stretch. If I could eat a 25-35000 calories dinner 10 years ago, and if I can eat 10-15000 calories dinner now does not mean that I " need" it.
A note about living wages: I had never seen anyone who had ever complained about poor wages in US, AU or West. Europe listing things that he /she needs to live , so obviously i assume that he/she is talking about ability to keep the soul inside of the body

[vtsnowedin]

What constitutes a living wage certainly varies from region to region or at least the perception of the wage earner does. A rice paddy farmer in Cambodia will have quite a different definition from a janitor in Manhattan USA.
As to how much food is enough I think it can be defined as the amount and variety that will maintain a stable and healthy body weight and prevents any nutrition caused diseases or declines in overall health.
So at the end of your year living off your stash you will be a year older but otherwise no worse off then you were before. That takes quality as well as quantity and many people in the poorer countries of the world chronically suffer from both a shortage of calories and of vitamins and other essential nutrients. They continue to survive at lower body weights but they age much faster then well nourished individuals and have higher death rates in spite of the advantage of not suffering from diabetes and heart disease.
So the target is somewhere between what the untouchable in Calcutta is eating and what is considered normal for the fast food inhaling Americans that are packing it away down at the all you can eat buffet