How then, do we move backwards? How does a society, with most of the people having no clue of future events, move from being dependent on a vast and intertwined network of goods and services produced by the indigenous people of whereever, to a local resource and renewable energy based society, and do so in the timeframe available (20-30 years using the most liberal extimates, 10-20 with resonable estimates, 5-10 with worst case scenarios), all the while prices on everything increasing, world politics getting more militaristic, governments continuously reducing civil liberties, shortages of goods on the market and weather patterns resembling bad Hollywood movies?
Joined: Dec 06, 2005 Posts: 823 Location: Stopped at the border.
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:45 am Post subject: Re: Saudi Arabia
I thought about this off and on today. The more I think about it the more I think that the Iranian Pres is the one trying to speed things up. He has been inciting the Israelis to action for months now by saying things that he couldn't possibly believe himself, the latest being to deny the holocaust.
Iran must know that they are an ultimate target of the US and they must be able to see the role the Saudis will play in the US aggression toward them.
If Iran can get Israel to attack them it would disrupt the US plan. First it might unite the muslim world behind Iran regardless of sectarian affiliation. Second it might require the Saudis to pump substantial amounts of crude above their established production goals. Getting the Saudis to do this may be the underlying reason for the Iranian gamble. They probably believe that such a situation would reveal things about the Saudi reserve story that are only hinted at today.
They probably believe that if they are lucky there will be such a drawdown in reserves that the US will be forced to act too early or not act at all against them because the reasons for US involvement in the Middle-East will become too obvious to deny.
Joined: Dec 06, 2005 Posts: 823 Location: Stopped at the border.
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 12:48 am Post subject: Re: Saudi Arabia
As for the Israelis,... don't they know this too? The Israelis are not going to attack Iran unless they know the Iranians are expecting it. That way nothing can escalate beyond a certain level. There will be plots put into motion.
The real question is, therefore, what will the Israelis gain from attacking Iran? Can it be that the two countries share the same goal of making the Saudis have to pump oil at the rate they would be required in order to cover the shortfall in the world markets? Why woud the Israelis be interested in that? Maybe the Saudis are just as interested in gaining nuclear capability as the Iranians are purported to be, but the Israelis consider the Saudis to be much more of a threat? Maybe there is an economic threat posed by the Saudis to global banking? Maybe the Saudis threaten to undermine the special relationship that Israel has with the US?
Joined: Dec 06, 2005 Posts: 823 Location: Stopped at the border.
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:26 am Post subject: Re: Saudi Arabia
I think it would be worthwhile at this point to discuss what it is that the Russians would like from the Saudis. The Russians are after all the other interested party in Middle-East geo role play at this juncture in history. The US is foremost but the lack of interest in what Russia is doing combined with the possibility of military defeat could change that for the big dog.
In the near term I think it is fair to say that Russia wants higher oil and natural gas prices. Their economy seems to be built on the sale of those commodities at high prices. The question has to arise, isn't Russia due to peak a lot sooner than most other historically heavy producers of oil? Russia obviously wants to monopolize the Caspian Sea region in reaction to this reality. They not only seek the active participation of Iran in that game but may also be courting other States. Are they trying to court the Saudis? That is likely. Wouldn't they really need the Saudis to cooperate seeing as how it isn't likely that the resources of the Caspian Sea will remain bottled up behind Iran forever, thus giving Russia prime pipeline routing rights essentially until the world switches from oil?
The Saudi price to betray the US and limit oil production against US design would probably be at least nuclear weapons. It would probably also include Russian support for a new Arab-Israeli war. That wouldn't be likely to assure that a new war would accomplish anything beyond what past wars have accomplished. If the betrayal came on the heels of a US defeat the story would be different.
Which is more tempting for Saudi Arabia: continuing with the US or siding with Russia? Doesn't that answer depend for the most part on whether the US screws up what it is attempting in the Middle-East. Should the US fail to place Iraq under the control of Saudi Arabia because they succomb to a Shiite uprising (remember Russia is the backer of Shiite Iran), or worse, then the Saudis will be sorely tempted indeed.
Hasn't the Bush administration entered into one of the most collossal blunders by risking so much at the hands of defeat?
Joined: Nov 17, 2005 Posts: 29 Location: On the Edge of No-where, Utah
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:45 am Post subject: Re: Saudi Arabia
Wow..... that is so twisted and convoluted..... the more I think about it, the more sense that it makes if our real goal is to have an excuse to continue to operate large military bases in the area....
So, in the end, we are OK with a significant amount of insurgancy and political instability as it gives us a plausible denyability in refuting charges that we really are there for the oil. Whew! 'Dizzy, my head is spining....'
A very cool analysis. Having the the whole situration slide into total chaos would be bad, and make us look bad, so to prevent that threat it gives us a good reason to have a large presence there. And there has to be a lot of people dying so that the public in the US at least sees that if it wasn't for our forces there, it would slide into an uncontroled civil war. As opposed to a 'controled' civil war? Is that what we are trying to attain?
I think that what makes me the most disgusted and depressed over this whole charade is that so many very patriotic, honest, and almost innocent men and women are there in harms way, far from their families and our cynical, and remorseless leaders are doing nothing to decrease our need for oil.
Very good point about Russia being a back door player in this situation as well. You don't see much press linking Mr. Putin to anything. He has never impressed me as a fool however. _________________ All the best,
Wrencher
***********
Seize the Day - It is all that we have.
Joined: Dec 06, 2005 Posts: 823 Location: Stopped at the border.
Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: Saudi Arabia
As of now, 1/28/06, I believe that the US wants the Iraqi situation to degenerate into a full blown civil war. I think that all along Cheney and company have been planning to back the Iraqi Sunnis and not the Shiites. The only thing in the way was Saddam. When he is dead then the picture will cartwheel and the US will begin to make the Shiites look bad. That won't be too hard considering how many of the internet head choppers are CIA to begin with (America, say it isn't so) and how easy it is to equate the Iraqi Shiia with the Iranians.
I believe that the US will have a big drawdown of troop levels in Iraq in the interim. That way the conservatives in the US can blame the liberal 'pussies' that are asking for withdrawal for the terrible state of things and compel further war after that the Iraqi civil war gets going in ernest. That way even if Hilary or some other Democrat gets in they won't be able to stop the machinations, and neither will a Democratic Congress.
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:02 am Post subject: Re: Saudi Arabia
bump _________________ A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
Live in Arizona? Check out: http://sustainablearizona.org and read my blog.
JEDDAH, JULY 25, SPA -- FOLLOWING IS THE STATEMENT ISSUED TODAY BY THE ROYAL COURT:
" THE KINGDOM OF SAUDI ARABIA HAS UNDERSTAKEN THE ROLE REQUIRED OF IT BY ITS RELIGIOUS AND NATIONAL DUTY WITH REGARD TO THE SITUATION IN THE REGION AND REPERCUSSIONS OF EVENTS IN LEBANON AND THE OCCUPIED PALESTINIAN TERRITORIES. IN THIS REGARD, IT HAS CAUTIONED, WARNED AND EXTENDED ADVICE. FURTHERMORE, IT HAS STRIVEN FROM THE FIRST MOMENT TO STOP THE AGRRESSION, MOVING ON MORE THAN ONE FRONT AND BY MORE THAN ONE MEANS, TO PERSUADE THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY TO FORCE ISRAEL TO AGREE TO A CEASEFIRE.
MEANWHILE, THE KINGDOM HAS DISPATCHED HRH THE FOREIGN MINISTER AND HRH THE SECRETARY GENERAL OF THE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL TO MEET H.E. THE U.S. PRESIDENT IN WASHINGTON AND INFORM HIM OF ITS VIEWS ON THE GRAVE AND UNPREDICTABLE CONSEQUENCES OF THE UNREMITTING ISRAELI AGGRESSION IF MATTERS WENT BEYOND CONTROL. THE KINGDOM HAS ALSO ASKED PERSONAL ENVOYS TO VISIT THE CAPITALS OF THE SECURITY COUNCIL'S PERMANENT MEMBER STATES TO CONVEY THE SAME MESSAGE.
THE ARABS HAVE PROCLAIMED PEACE AS A STRATEGIC OPTION FOR THE ARAB NATION. THEY PRESENTED A JUST AND DISTINCT PLAN FOR REGAINING THE OCCUPIED ARAB TERRITORIES IN EXCHANGE FOR PEACE. THEY REFUSED TO RESPOND TO PROVOCATIONS AND IGNORED ANTI-PEACE EXTREMIST CALLS. IT SHOULD BE STATED THAT PATIENCE COULD NOT LAST FOREVER. IF THE ISRAELI MILITARY BRUTALITY PERSISTED WITH KILLINGS AND DESTRUCTION NO ONE COULD PREDICT THE CONSEQUENCES AND THAN REGRETS WILL BE IN VAIN.
THEREFORE, THE KINGDOM ADDRESSES AN APPEAL AND A WARNING TO THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY IN ITS ENTIRETY, AS REPRESENTED BY THE U.N. AND IN PARTICULAR THE U.S.
THE KINGDOM OF SAUDI ARABIA CALLS ON ALL TO ACT IN ACCORDANCE WITH HONEST, CONSCIOUS AND INTERNATIONAL MORAL AND HUMANITARIAN LAWS. IT ALSO WARNS ALL THAT IF THE PEACE OPTION IS REJECTED DUE TO THE ISRAELI ARROGANCE THEN ONLY THE WAR OPTION REMAINS AND NO ONE KNOWS THE REPERCUSSIONS BEFALLING THE REGION, INCLUDING WARS AND CONFLICT THAT WILL SPARE NO ONE INCLUDING THOSE WHOSE MILITARY POWER IS NOW TEMPTING THEM TO PLAY WITH FIRE.
--MORE 1625 Local Time 1325 GMT
Joined: Oct 04, 2004 Posts: 2496 Location: Ye Olde Englande
Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: Saudi Arabia
Russia signs arms deal with Saudi Arabia
Quote:
Rumours of a breakthrough deal with Saudi Arabia, a traditional buyer of United States’ defence equipment, started circulating when former Russian president Vladimir Putin met with Saudi Crown Prince Sultan bin Abdul Aziz Al Saud in November last year. However, Russia and Saudi Arabia preferred not to reveal details of their talks on the contract, which continued for about six months. The Saudi government expressed interested in a wide range of Russia’s defence equipment — from aircraft and armoured vehicles to missile complexes — during that time.
U.S. officials investigating alleged bribes in a Saudi arms deal subpoenaed the chief executive of BAE Systems (BAES.L: Quote, Profile, Research), Britain's biggest military contractor, on his arrival in the United States last week, BAE officials said on Sunday.
A subpoena was served on Mike Turner, the CEO, at George Bush International Airport in Houston, Texas, on May 12, said Greg Caires, a BAE spokesman in Washington.
Total CEO says Jubail refinery in Saudi Arabia to cost over $10 billion
Quote:
The cost of the Jubail refinery being built in Saudi Arabia by Total and Saudi Aramco is 'more than $10 billion', the French group's chief executive, Christophe de Margerie, said.
De Margerie told Total's AGM the figure 'is not a final price', which will be established after the tender process for subcontractors.
His comments followed a report on Thursday from Agence France-Presse, which cited a source close to the matter as saying the cost was above $10 billion, compared with the $6 billion estimated when the project was announced in May 2006.
Joined: Oct 04, 2004 Posts: 2496 Location: Ye Olde Englande
Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 9:15 pm Post subject: Re: Saudi Arabia News
Saudi Arabia to be among top importers of wheat
Quote:
As the water level gets depleted in Saudi Arabia, the country will become one of the world's major importers of wheat, by 2016, according to the US Department of Agriculture (USDA) projections.
Grain production in Saudi Arabia is now down 42 per cent from the peak of 4.9 million tonnes reached in 1994 and is now on track to decline rapidly in the coming years, says a report in the May 21 issue of the U.S. News & World Report.
Saudi Arabia has been reportedly seeking to invest in farms in Thailand, the world's largest rice exporter, to help secure its long-term supply.
Saudi inflation surged to a a 27-year high of 10.5% in April from 9.6% the previous month, government data showed on Saturday.
The cost of living index in the world's largest oil exporter reached 115.2 points at the end of April compared with 104.3 points a year earlier as rents soared 20.4% and food was up 18% according to the official data.
Dollar pegs force Saudi Arabia and four of its GCC partners, including the UAE and Qatar to track US monetary policy at a time when the Fed has been cutting rates to contain the fallout of a mortgage crisis and a weakening economy.
To oil world watchers and worriers, the words Twilight in the Desert are instantly recognizable. That's the name of the book by energy investment banker Matthew Simmons, who used hundreds of internal documents to bolster his case that oil production has peaked or soon will be peaking in Saudi Arabia—home to what the world trusts as the largest source of petroleum reserves. But it turns out that long before we learn whether Simmons's prediction pans out, the sun is setting on another resource in the kingdom.
Grain production in Saudi Arabia is now down 42 percent from the peak of 4.9 million tons reached in 1994 and is now on track to decline rapidly in the coming years. Thanks to Lester Brown of the Earth Policy Institute for compiling these figures from the U.S. Department of Agriculture:
Joined: Oct 04, 2004 Posts: 2496 Location: Ye Olde Englande
Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: Saudi Arabia News
Giant oilfield to raise Saudi output
Quote:
The desert sun is beating down. The temperature is 44 degrees Celsius. And yet there are men working in the baking heat.
Not all that energetically, perhaps, but they are working nonetheless. For them, there is no escaping on board the visiting air-conditioned bus. Instead, simple shelters provide scant, yet welcome, relief.
Welcome to Khurais in the Saudi Arabian desert, 160 kilometres east of the capital Riyadh.
It is described by the national oil company, Saudi Aramco, as the largest oilfield development in the history of the industry, containing 27 billion barrels of oil.
Global Geopolitics: Saudi Arabian Petrodollars Driving Containment of Iran
Quote:
In the second quarter, U.S. efforts in the Middle East received a surprising boost in the form of petrodollars. Like the United States, Saudi Arabia wants to see Iraq stable and Iran blocked from expanding its influence. High oil prices are bringing the Saudis more than a billion dollars a day in revenues, some of which they are using to push Sunnis into Iraq's governing coalition.
Saudi keeps August crude supplies steady to East Asia
Quote:
Saudi Arabia, the world's top oil exporter, will supply full contracted volumes of crude in August to East Asia, steady to July, as refiners continue to shun extra barrels, sources with seven refiners said on Friday.
The market has been looking for signs of where incremental volumes are headed since the oil kingdom pledged to boost production by 550,000 barrels per day (bpd) from May to July to 9.7 million bpd, its highest in more than 30 years.
Guardian _________________ "The age of excess is over. The age of entropy has begun"
Joined: Oct 04, 2004 Posts: 2496 Location: Ye Olde Englande
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 7:53 pm Post subject: Re: Saudi Arabia News
Saudi Arabia defers $5 bn Pak oil payments
Quote:
Saudi Arabia has agreed to rescue Pakistan from its present oil crisis by indicating that it may renew its special oil facility (SOF) of almost $5 billion that would provide substantial fiscal space to the country facing multiple economic challenges.
“This act of the brotherly country would enable the government to come out of the present economic morass of huge current account deficit and poor state of balance of payments,” a senior government official told The News on Saturday.
Saudi Arabia’s gesture has come in response to a request that Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani submitted during his visit to the country last month.
Sultan al-Mazeen recently stopped at a gas station to fill up his SUV, paying 45 cents a gallon — about one-tenth what Americans pay these days.
But the Saudi technician says Americans shouldn't be jealous. Inflation has hit 30-year highs on everything else in the kingdom, making Saudis feel poorer despite the flush of oil money.
"I tell the Americans, don't feel envious because gas is cheaper here," said Mazeen, 36. "We're worse off than before."
Chicago Tribune _________________ "The age of excess is over. The age of entropy has begun"
Joined: Oct 04, 2004 Posts: 2496 Location: Ye Olde Englande
Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: Saudi Arabia News
SAUDI ARABIA: A Muslim king's Western dream
Quote:
Up the corniche, along the Saudi Arabian coast where boats carrying pilgrims bound for Mecca sailed for centuries, a thicket of cranes rises over whitewashed mosques along the Red Sea.
Steel flashes and blowtorches glow as 20,000 workers build a $10-billion university ordered up by a king who hopes Western ingenuity will revive the economy of this ultraconservative Muslim nation. When finished next year, the King Abdullah University of Science and Technology will offer coed classes, Western professors, a curriculum in English and other touches loathed as dangerous liberalism by Islamic fundamentalists.
There is only one thing I used to need to know to predict the price of oil: What was Saudi Arabia thinking?
For decades, the Saudi oil minister could declare a target price and the market would gravitate toward it. We can recall some of those targets nostalgically — $18, $25, even the more recent $55 price floor. They seem romantically quaint now.
Houston Chronicle _________________ "The age of excess is over. The age of entropy has begun"
Joined: Oct 04, 2004 Posts: 2496 Location: Ye Olde Englande
Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:36 pm Post subject: Re: Saudi Arabia News
Saudi Arabia to announce "openness" at Spain forum
Quote:
An interfaith conference in Spain this week will give Saudi Arabia a chance to declare its "openness" and willingness to cooperate with the international community, a Saudi organiser said on Tuesday.
King Abdullah will open the three-day meeting on Wednesday after winning the backing of Sunni and Shi'ite clerics to go ahead with the ground-breaking idea in Mecca last month.
The interfaith idea has sparked interest from Jewish and Christian groups around the world, coming after the Saudi king held talks with Pope Benedict at the Vatican last year.
Russia hopes to further boost ties with Saudi Arabia, Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said Monday during talks with Saudi Arabia's Security Council chief Prince Bandar bin Sultan.
"Our relations are developing well, the trade turnover is growing though in absolute terms it still looks modest, but considering our good ties, we have good perspectives and a good basis," Putin said as quoted by ITAR-TASS news agency.
The prince voiced hope that he "will be able to convey the king's thoughts on perspective in economic, political, military and security spheres as well as others."
Saudi Arabia, renewing efforts for the construction of a long delayed facility, will issue tenders in September for a new oil refinery in the southern province of Jizan, according to local media.
The Saudi Al-Eqtisadiah newspaper said the petroleum and mining ministry will issue a request Sept. 6 for proposals for the refinery to companies that it has vetted as qualified to build and operate the refinery.
The tender for the 250,000-400,000 b/d refinery has been delayed several times, from initial plans to open bidding in the second quarter of 2007.
Bechtel, Foster Wheeler, Technip, and Snamprogetti are among the foreign companies that have established consortia with Saudi firms to bid the project.
OGJ _________________ "The age of excess is over. The age of entropy has begun"
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