Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
I would say that the EU is far more unstable than the USA. The economic and demographic time bomb of the social welfare states of Europe is far more destabalizing than anything in the USA currently. _________________ Make a man a fire and he will be warm for a day.
Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
The US is a living timebomb, ready to explode at any time (see the LA riots).
Massive hidden unemployment, ghettos, millions of people without health care, education below world average, generalized crime, a totally artificial economy (every single American is in horrible personal debt), a housing bubble of gigantic proportions, a sh!tty dollar, mega deficit, etc... etc...
Europe is world leader in social cohesion, with the best education, social protection and health care on the planet, available to all citizens, with the cleanest and most secure environment on the planet (being jobless is in Europe means still having all these benefits - in the US, you end up like a dog in the streets). Europe is the world's strongest and best armed society on the planet when it comes to economic or social shocks. Its entire essence is based on social cohesion, while America's is entirely based on the opposite and is rapidly evolving towards a two track society.
America can explode any time now. (In fact, if OPEC decides to go €uro tomorrow, America is completely dead the day after). _________________ The Beginning is Near!
Joined: Feb 01, 2005 Posts: 162 Location: Devon, UK
Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 4:31 am Post subject:
For you JayH:
Quote:
…the neoliberals who promote unregulated global capitalism tell us is that there is no conflict between the whims of the wealthy and the needs of the wretched. The Economist magazine, for example, argues that the more freedom you give the rich, the better off the poor will be. Without restraints the rich have a more powerful incentive to generate global growth, and this growth becomes "the rising tide that lifts all boats". Countries that intervene in the market with "punitive taxes, grandiose programmes of public spending, and all the other apparatus of applied economic justice" condemn their people to remain poor. A zeal for justice does "nothing but harm".
Quote:
Let us compare the United Kingdom a pioneer of neoliberalism and Sweden, one of the last outposts of distributionism. And let us make use of a set of statistics the Economist is unlikely to dispute: those contained within its own publication, the 2005 World in Figures
Quote:
The first surprise, for anyone who has swallowed the stories about Britain's unrivalled economic dynamism, is that, in terms of gross domestic product, Sweden has done as well as the UK has. In 2002 its GDP per capita was $27,310, and the UK's was $26,240. This is no blip. In only seven years between 1960 and 2001 did Sweden's per capita GDP fall behind the UK's.
Quote:
More surprisingly still Sweden has a current account surplus of $10bn and the UK a deficit of $26bn. Even by the neoliberals' favourite measures, Sweden wins: it has a lower inflation rate than the UK, higher "global competitiveness" and a higher ranking for "business creativity and research".
Quote:
In terms of human welfare there is no competition. According to the quality of life measure published by the Economist (the "human development index") Sweden ranks third in the world, the UK 11th. Sweden has the world's third highest life expectancy, the UK the 29th.
Quote:
The reason for these differences is straightforward. During most of the 20th century Sweden has pursued, in the words of a recent pamphlet published by the Catalyst Forum, "policies designed to narrow the inequality of condition between social classes". These include what the Economist calls "punitive taxes" and "grandiose programmes of public spending", which, remember, do "nothing but harm". These policies in fact appear to have enhanced the country's economic competitiveness, while ensuring that the poor obtain a higher proportion of total national income. In Sweden, according to the UN, the richest 10% earn 6.2 times as much money as the poorest 10%. In the UK the ratio is 13.8.
I would say that the EU is far more unstable than the USA. The economic and demographic time bomb of the social welfare states of Europe is far more destabalizing than anything in the USA currently.
Dude, what "economic timebomb"? The Finnish economy (the uberest of the uber welfare states! more socialist than Sweden!) looks far healthier in the long term than the American economy. If you think there's something seriously wrong with it, you've been listening to too much Reaganite propaganda.
As for demographics, there's one demographical factor above all others that contributes to political unstability: the youth of the population. If you look at the most unstable countries in the world, you'll see that ALL of them have very young populations, while all the most stable countries in the world have old populations. Pensioners can be at most brought to the streets to demonstrate; they won't be contributing to violent unstability. The US is worse off than Europe with this, but not in as bad trouble as most developing countries.
Look at something like Japan - the aged population might be a factor in its chronic economical problems, but it's a good guard against political instability. It's also a society with a tradition of incredible social cohesion under stress (like Finland is; most European countries are less cohesive, though), totally unlike the US, where anything destabilizing brings out the
culture wars.
Joined: Oct 04, 2004 Posts: 2500 Location: Ye Olde Englande
Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 7:38 am Post subject:
JayHMorrison wrote:
I would say that the EU is far more unstable than the USA. The economic and demographic time bomb of the social welfare states of Europe is far more destabalizing than anything in the USA currently.
Care to elaborate Jay.
The impression I get is that things are worse on your side of the pond.
You're correct that demographically there is a timebomb waiting to go off in both regions with a massive amount of baby boomers set to retire in the next few years.
Economically though I thought that you're country was in more trouble than the EU what with your record budget/trade deficits and weak dollar.
Sounds great. Once you guys got rid of that "jewish question" I suppose social cohesion was much easier to achieve. _________________ Make a man a fire and he will be warm for a day.
Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
The impression I get is that things are worse on your side of the pond.
You're correct that demographically there is a timebomb waiting to go off in both regions with a massive amount of baby boomers set to retire in the next few years.
You could say that. Recent reports yesterday suggested that the civil service pension bill for the UK is a staggering £700bn
So what could you buy for that?
117 new channel tunnels
100 new Airbus projects
Completely rebuild the entire road network twice over
Sounds great. Once you guys got rid of that "jewish question" I suppose social cohesion was much easier to achieve.
Hey man, that's a very vile way of discussing things. Get over the Second World War. That's ages ago. I don't feel responsible for what the world did in the 1940s.
So please, get over it. _________________ The Beginning is Near!
Sounds great. Once you guys got rid of that "jewish question" I suppose social cohesion was much easier to achieve.
Hey man, that's a very vile way of discussing things. Get over the Second World War. That's ages ago. I don't feel responsible for what the world did in the 1940s.
So please, get over it.
My comment was merely a pointed way to demonstrate that if minority groups are minimized in a society, as happened in Europe during WWII, that makes social cohesion an easier thing to achieve afterwards. What is the white % in Scandanavian countries?
Whereas in the USA we encourage immigration. That is going to create quite a bit of conflict in our society in order to integrate these different groups. Considering the wide variation of groups represented in the USA and the freedom they each have to exert their rights, I think we are doing a decent job. Whereas in several European countries, they lack the tolerance to accept these outside ethnic groups. That underlying racism and intolerance is still very strong in Europe. _________________ Make a man a fire and he will be warm for a day.
Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
Sounds great. Once you guys got rid of that "jewish question" I suppose social cohesion was much easier to achieve.
Hey man, that's a very vile way of discussing things. Get over the Second World War. That's ages ago. I don't feel responsible for what the world did in the 1940s.
So please, get over it.
My comment was merely a pointed way to demonstrate that if minority groups are minimized in a society, as happened in Europe during WWII, that makes social cohesion an easier thing to achieve afterwards. What is the white % in Scandanavian countries?
Whereas in the USA we encourage immigration. That is going to create quite a bit of conflict in our society in order to integrate these different groups. Considering the wide variation of groups represented in the USA and the freedom they each have to exert their rights, I think we are doing a decent job. Whereas in several European countries, they lack the tolerance to accept these outside ethnic groups. That underlying racism and intolerance is still very strong in Europe.
Man, do you have any idea what you're talking about?
1. For starters, more people are immigrating to the EU than to the US. So there goes your big myth. Out of the door.
2. Racism may be latent in Europe, but it is the norm in the US. The USA is built on racism (it's only a few decades ago since blacks got civil rights, and they're already being threatened again).
3. The point is that the EU's political model is inclusivist, and embeds social cohesion as a policy. That's why we are called Well-fare States. We are the only true well-fare states on the planet, together with Japan and Canada. The US is based on another model, namely that of individualism and egoism. In Europe, social solidarity is embedded both in a political tradition and in a legal framework. And this is so because Europe is broadly Catholic (a religion which does not deny the social nature of people and the bonds of a community), whereas the USA's culture is based on Protestantism (a religion based on egotistical atomized individualist models of society).
The results are that in Europe:
-99,99% of citizens have excellent health care; in the US, 80 million people don't
-99,99% have excellent housing; in the US, you have millions of homeless people
-99,99% of European citizens enjoy the world's best education; while the US's educational system ranks below world average (according to the latest OECD report)
-99,99% have excellent social protection as employees, because of our codified tradition of negotiations between the social partners ( state, unions, civil society, employers), while in the US there's an all out war against such a system
-99,99% have all these benefits if they happen to fall into unemployment; in the US, you end up in the ghetto never to crawl out again
We're simply talking about two different views on society.
And about the Jews, since you started it: you were just as deep in it as European states; you looked away when Hitler offered you the opportunity to save Jews by accepting them to immigrate; you were not different than European states; you closed your doors, just like they did.
The Holocaust is not a European affair, it's a world affair with all of our forefathers to blame. _________________ The Beginning is Near!
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The Finnish economy (the uberest of the uber welfare states! more socialist than Sweden!) looks far healthier in the long term than the American economy. If you think there's something seriously wrong with it, you've been listening to too much Reaganite propaganda.
