Does the EU survive past Christmas 08?

roccman

Maybe why the dollar is rising.
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We are going back to roccland - me

Sys1 · Intermediate Crude Joined: Feb 25, 2005 Posts: 678

Well, I think you missed something. European Union is a theory, it has never existed. Every country is official EU is selfish, we don't have a president (I mean a real one), no army (I mean real army), no fronteer, no common language (beside bad english because Bruxelle is in love with USA capitalism). Moreover, United Kingdom, one of the main country of the so called EU, doesn't even have euro.
When GWB invaded Irak, UK, Spain, Italy and a little bit Poland decided to follow him while France said FU and Deutchland said "I would like to come but I don't want to".
Something else, people from eastern Europe are invading western Europe in order to earn some money, that's why you can see lot of Romanian homeless in Paris...

The good question should be "Will the Euro will survive past Christmas 2008". To this question, the answer is yes.
For Christmas 2009, it will perhabs be another story.

idiom

The economic agreements, mostly to not go off and sort yourself out at the expense of the rest of Europe, is pretty strained right now.

I am suprised to see Rocc postulating that PO may set back the NWO rather than setting it up.
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Bas

I think most people, and certainly almost all politicians know that getting out of the union isn't really an option if you talk about trying to fix economic problems, as getting out of the union mostly has economic disadvantages, even for the largest of netcontributors. If you talk about popular political movements that might want to secede from the union for other reasons; I know not of any such movements in any country belonging to the EU, I don't even know any people within Europe that are against Europe (besides there being criticism). I'm sure there are such people and such groups, but they are in such a minority that you just don't hear about them. The only thing Europeans seem to be against (and of which I have doubts myself) is an expansion of the powers of the EU to include things other than those that bring economic prosperity.

So even if you had made the poll past Christmas 2012, I still would' ve voted yes.
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Gebari

I'm sure it will survive for a few more years, but longer term it has no future. When things really go to hell in our economies and society I expect an explosion of right wing governments across Europe who will swiftly exit their countries from the union and the whole thing will become defunct. I feel there is a simmering right wing feeling across Europe - certainly in Britain - it won't take much to set it off.

Eli

Snowrunner

I guess by extend you could ask if the Union (US) or Confederation (Canada) will survive the new year.

The reality is that there really isn't much of an option for Europe, you talk about Global Integration / Supply Chain? Look at Europe.

Not all of the "old guard" are dead, there are enough still around to remember the bombs falling and people dying so the idea to "split up" the EU and become adversaries again is not really in the cards.

Will the Euro survive? Most likely yes, but as the meeting yesterday made it clear, it is going to go "soft" for a while at least as they allow each country to take "measures" they deem necessary.

What may happen next year, depending on how bad it gets though, is the "ending" of certain agreements (e.g. the ability for any EU citizen to work and live in any other EU country without the need for a visa, outside of GB of course, but seriously, who would want to be stuck on the Island when TSHTF, I am still thinking they should fill in the tunnel just in case).

Snowrunner

Gebari

I'm not aware of anyone in Britain who wants the empire back. But being an island there's always been naturally sense of disconnection from the continent. We've also been independent for nearly a thousand years, while most of Europe has experienced being taken over and invaded in recent times, often many times. I think it's really as simple as that, the empire doesn't enter into it.

I've found that us Brits just aren't happy with unelected officials in foreign countries making decisions about our country. What's wrong with that? Not getting into a pro-anti EU debate though.

I say I expect an upsurge of right wing likely nationalist feeling when things really go to hell because people are not going to give a toss about idealogy in the future - about fairness, equality, liberalism, when they're unemployed, poor and maybe struggling to put food in the table. They will be pissed and will start blaming people, namely the leftists in power across Europe now, for causing the mess, rightly or wrongly. And they're going to want immediately, decisive practical actions to make their life better.

The idealogy of a "united Europe" will be quickly thrown into the dustbin. Europeans have been beating the living shite out of each other for thousands of years - it was only 60 years ago that the entire continent was in ruin. Things won't change in the future. This 60 year blip has only come about due to a period of unprecedented wealth and prosperity brought on by fossil fuels (and later made up with debt).

albente · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Aug 20, 2004 Posts: 1361

Nickel

Yeah, Europe's come too far to come apart now. If anything, tough times are likely to tighten the bolts, but mostly because of the pressure straining them. There's little question that Europe is better off with the EU than without it; if only for eliminating the barriers to business and the expensive uncertainties that separate currencies and interest rates inject into long-term planning. Most businesses are loathe to admit government can do any good, but deep down they know they should be on their knees kissing the asses of politicians a generation ago for actually forging that advantage.

I don't doubt there will be rumblings. I wouldn't be surprised to see one country or another seriously look into jumping ship. But I'm convinced the centre will hold; in fact, if they had any guts, they'd dump all this hobbling unanimity nonsense and declare a two-speed Europe: one that would let the committed members move ahead and get on with things, and leave the reticent members behind to kick the dust and stare at their shoes until they finally work up the good sense to yell "wait up" and join in.

As for the UK, I have a feeling that if they don't come to grips with where God/Fate/geography have placed them in the world and get their noses out of the air, they're quickly going to wind up the snooty belle of the ball who's pissed off one too many suitors and finds herself going home alone in the cold. Much as they love happily "condemning" themselves to being the 51st state, they aren't. That's OUR cross to bear, and WE don't like it -- but that's the one God/Fate/geography forced on us. Britain needs to realize that, aside from some extra melt water after the last ice age, they're attached to France and Holland across a valley a few dozen miles wide, currently called the English Channel. They're in Europe. They need to get real about it, and start acting like it. Get in there and get your hands dirty and build the bloody place instead of pretending it's someone else's project and you're only interested because it's going on in the neighbourhood.
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Gebari

Nickel

Gebari

Nickel