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Peakoil.com :: View topic - US could walk all over Russia...
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US could walk all over Russia...
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sparky
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:32 am    Post subject: Re: US could walk all over Russia... Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

.

The prospect of unlimited nuclear war is getting very close

it is a tenet of Marxism than as it face its own collapse , capitalism would trash out with a frenzy of aggression .

The typical scenario would be a massive U.S.fist strike , the anti missile cover should protect most of the continental U.S.
some judiciously placed nuclear explosions would be used as a plausible cause , the control of the main medias news feed would present a well crafted campaign justifying the declaration of a " state of war "
hungry people waiting in queue for rations don't ask questions


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evgeny
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:41 am    Post subject: Re: US could walk all over Russia... Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

mos6507 wrote:
evgeny wrote:
Russian have something better.
Russian are smart and they are tough.
When they in a difficult situation, they not gonna cry, they will do some changes and will fight again.
Russian will fight and Russian will be a winners.
Probably it's like fight with pitbull .(where Russia pitbull)
Basicly USA don't have any chance to be a winner.
Basically in Russia we don't give a f..k about USA.(It exist or not.)
Don't f..k with us and you gonna be save.
Technology it's nothing, People - It's Everything

I VILL BREAK YOU!
Photo (large)


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Last edited by evgeny on Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:40 pm; edited 5 times in total
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Nickel
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:43 am    Post subject: Re: US could walk all over Russia... Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

evgeny wrote:
New version

Hey, isn't that the pot lid that VC guy was holding his guts in with in Apocalypse Now? Smile
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dissident
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:16 am    Post subject: Re: US could walk all over Russia... Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

The US has no missile shield. The current crop of kinetic kill ABM warheads require the exact trajectory of the incoming ICBM warhead to be known. Too bad for the USA that Russian warheads do not have ballistic trajectories. So no first strike wet dreams for Rovian degenerates will come true.
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EnergyUnlimited
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:10 am    Post subject: Re: US could walk all over Russia... Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

sparky wrote:
The typical scenario would be a massive U.S.fist strike , the anti missile cover should protect most of the continental U.S.

1. What is "typical" in your scenario? I don't think that anything alike was ever tried.

2. Antimissile cover would not protect US because it is a fantasy, not a working system. And before there is any chance for that to become reality, US will face Russian first strike.

3. There is a good probability, that Russia (perhaps together with China) will carry out first strike on West, not the other way. Those who conclude that WW III is inevitable will press buttons first.
In any case West (or Russia) will be able to retaliate successfully.
Chinese could be done at the moment. They have too few nukes. That will change fast.
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mos6507
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:58 pm    Post subject: Re: US could walk all over Russia... Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

EnergyUnlimited wrote:
3. There is a good probability, that Russia (perhaps together with China) will carry out first strike on West, not the other way.

Could someone explain to me why exactly Russia would want to wipe out the US? I know in the Cold War there was an ideological divide, but now? Why? I mean, we're not close to die-off yet in which case genocidal moves like this could be rationalized. You don't do this sort of thing unless you really feel it's life or death because surely even if you "win" you're going to take one hell of a punch.
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Nickel
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:32 pm    Post subject: Re: US could walk all over Russia... Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

mos6507 wrote:
Could someone explain to me why exactly Russia would want to wipe out the US?

I thought the received standard answer nowadays was that "they [whoever "they" happen to be] hate us because they're jealous of our wealth, freedom, cute noses, whatever". You know, the Russians hate the US because they don't have a gigantic national debt and the US does. Something like that. Isn't that it?
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evgeny
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:45 pm    Post subject: Re: US could walk all over Russia... Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

mos6507 wrote:
EnergyUnlimited wrote:
3. There is a good probability, that Russia (perhaps together with China) will carry out first strike on West, not the other way.
Could someone explain to me why exactly Russia would want to wipe out the US? I know in the Cold War there was an ideological divide, but now? Why? I mean, we're not close to die-off yet in which case genocidal moves like this could be rationalized. You don't do this sort of thing unless you really feel it's life or death because surely even if you "win" you're going to take one hell of a punch.

Basically in Russia we don't give a f..k about USA.(It exist or not.)
But USA as cockroaches, trying to climb into your plate of food.
Don't f..k with us and you gonna be save.
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sparky
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:28 am    Post subject: Re: US could walk all over Russia... Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

dissident wrote:
The US has no missile shield.

well they do .....the THADD system is up , the sea based mid course based on Aegis is up and running . fort greenley and vandenberg are operationnal ,there is no particular reasons to shoot with kinetic , a quite simple retrofitting of nuclear warheads would improve interception chances by a factor of thousands , stripping bare the decoys ,the X band radars of Thule , Varno and Flyingdale provide a pretty good trajectory calculation for any missile intercept
already the Russians strategic bombers and cruise missiles have pretty much zilch prospect , don't forget than a first strike would eliminate 90% of the Russian weapons on stand by , leaving the remains to overcome misfire and thoroughly messed up targetting programs no more than a third and often less of the strategic submarine force is at sea , even for them they might find the U.S. hunter killers too much to handle

This outline is typical of the various scenarios studied by both sides during nearly fifty years , little warning , surprise give an overwhelming advantage to the attack , that's why there were so many nukes , to guaranty the possibility of a devastating response no matter what .
The reduction in delivery vehicles was a budgetary consideration not a military one , the errection of an anti missile shield would , for an U.S. attack , be equivalent to having several hundreds of missiles more , that's why the Russians are mad at the U.S. anti missiles plan in eastern Europe and of the Bush administration withdrawing of the anti ballistic treaty

The chance of Russia striking the U.S. is ludicrous, they just don't have the nuclear muscle to make a devastating first trike it would take all their assets to be ready at the same time, in secret , which is impossible .
As for China they have barely 200 nukes and are barely a nuclear power, though are improving their missiles branch pretty fast

the Pentagon is looking at the mother of all budget cut, it probably never, short of WW3 , have so much money to spend, the present administration has no scruples and no reputation to protect .

If you think this is a crazy nightmare, wake me up when Palin is sworn in.
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Nickel
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:52 am    Post subject: Re: US could walk all over Russia... Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

sparky wrote:
well they do .....the THADD system is up

Give us a break already. Even the rigged tests have been falling flat most of the time.
sparky wrote:
the sea based mid course based on Aegis is up and running .

Aegis is a tremendous hoax; whistling in a graveyard because there's nothing else you can do to ward off the monsters. You're firing at something hundreds of miles away. Do you know how remote the odds are you're going to hit it? If you fire two shots with a spread of only half a degree at a target 100 miles away, the spread between those two shots is roughly 4600 feet.. 7/8 of a mile. And that's taking only two dimensions into account in what's really a trajectory with three, that may be varied if the warheads are MIRVs.
sparky wrote:
don't forget than a first strike would eliminate 90% of the Russian weapons on stand by

Says who? 90%, huh? It's down to a round number, is it? THAT certain? I personally think a lot more than 10% would survive, on subs deep in the ocean, and that even 10% is probably sufficient to end the United States, and every other Western nation, as effective political entities. This isn't something we want to put to the test.
sparky wrote:
even for them they might find the U.S. hunter killers too much to handle

Hunter-killer subs first have to locate them, get past THEIR hunter-killer subs, and make a successful attack over, and over, and over. All the missile subs have to do is launch. Period. The end.
sparky wrote:
The reduction in delivery vehicles was a budgetary consideration not a military one , the errection of an anti missile shield would, for an U.S. attack, be equivalent to having several hundreds of missiles more, that's why the Russians are mad at the U.S. anti missiles plan in eastern Europe and of the Bush administration withdrawing of the anti ballistic treaty

They're not mad because they really believe it's going to work, Sparky; they're mad because it's a destabilizing escalation. It's a sop to immature democracies like the Czech Republic and Poland to wedge US forces closer to Russia and limit Russia's political maneuverability. And it encourages credible people like you to feel they have a real advantage over Russia that can be pressed to pressure them into a corner. It's a dangerous farce.
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evgeny
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:23 am    Post subject: Re: US could walk all over Russia... Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

DAVIS: Double-talk with Russia U.S. should reverse diplomatic course
According to the consensus of Western media, the Russian government seeks to weaken the West, desires to resurrect a new version of the Soviet Union, and tramples on the freedoms of its own people. By contrast, the United States stands for freedom, peace and prosperity for all nations. Regarding the situation in Georgia, the Russians are the aggressors — much like Hitler when he took Czechoslovakia in 1938 — and we simply seek to defend the weak. The only problem with this view of things is that it grossly misrepresents the complicated truth. If this distortion is not quickly rectified, our own actions could unwittingly contribute to a grave crisis — if not war — between the United States and Russia.

By perpetuating the myth that every action taken by the Russian Federation is driven by an irrational lust for power and antagonism toward the United States, while all our actions are right, just, and reasonable, we work against our own self interest. The unpleasant fact of the matter is that American foreign policy and diplomacy over the past two decades has contributed to the trouble we find ourselves in today, and if not reversed quickly — and I mean reversed, not simply altered — the United States may one day find itself facing the possibility of being involved in a major war; a war that should never be fought.

Since the West's condemnation of Russian actions in Georgia, Moscow has threatened Poland over the latter's decision to host missile interceptors on their soil, has threatened Ukraine against joining NATO, has promised to give sophisticated anti-air missile defense capabilities to Iran, has agreed to military cooperation and sales to Venezuela, and openly discussed the possibility of using Cuba as a refueling stop for its long range bombers. No American would dispute that these things run counter to American national interests. But when we protest to Moscow our complaints fall on deaf ears. We have lost the ability to influence Russian policies, partially as a result of our own double standards.

We argue that Russia ought not sell weapons abroad, but we are the world's leader of such sales; we tell Russia they should not do business with Iran while we provide military advisors to Georgia; we tell Russia under no circumstances can they have any military presence in Cuba, but we dismissively tell Russia they have nothing to say about our expanding a military alliance to their very borders. Any rational person, who was neither Russian nor American, would view this situation as a farcical double standard. And yet the bulk of American foreign affairs pundits and former governmental officials defend these positions as being perfectly reasonable.

The tragedy of the situation is that such actions are viewed as imperialistic by much of the rest of the world, and after decades of this behavior, has resulted in the loss of American influence abroad, even among our friends and allies, as our word is no longer trusted. It is of critical importance to the future health and benefit of the United States that we reverse this situation immediately.

Associated Press Russian soldiers crowd atop an armored vehicle as they leave their positions heading toward Georgia's breakaway province of Abkhazia. Hundreds of Russian forces withdrew from positions across western Georgia on Saturday.

Had we not diplomatically bludgeoned Russia into submission on virtually every important issue over the nearly two decades since the dissolution of the USSR, Russia would almost certainly now be more willing to work with us internationally on matters of mutual national interest. If carried too far, this deteriorating relationship - where politicians from both countries condemn the actions of the other as immoral and unjust - could one day result in a miscalculation involving a red line; such miscalculations have resulted in unintended war many times throughout history. I can say without reservation that a war between the United States and Russia would have no winners; all would lose and potentially hundreds of thousands (or more) could be killed.

For the benefit of the United States, for our ability to influence the actions of our friends and competitors throughout the world on matters of real significance, and to give our people the best chance of living in a world of peace, American foreign policy and diplomacy must immediately change course and begin to treat others with genuine respect, recognize others have legitimate security interests and cease this counter productive penchant for double standards. Our children will forever condemn us if our hubris were to result in a war that should never have been fought, requiring them to spend the rest of their lives trying to rebuild what our foolish pride destroyed.

Army Maj. Daniel L. Davis, a cavalry officer, fought in Desert Storm and served in Afghanistan. link
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evgeny
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:07 am    Post subject: Re: US could walk all over Russia... Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

member of the Council on Foreign Policy, scholar and political scientist Steven Cohen, lamented "Izvestiya":
- The situation is deplorable. Unfortunately, the official position and the Council and the United States as a whole - NATO must come to Ukraine and Georgia. And it has another conflict. U.S. wants relations with Russia, which will be based on their representation and their interests. Saakashvili - a fully American project. And for me it is quite clear: the war in South Ossetia - a response to the threats emanating from the policy. This is a war between Russia and America, which had violated its promises. And the biggest problem in our relationship - that the U.S. has no opposition on the issue of expanding NATO eastward. This is a terrible mistake.

According to Cohen, his view is of "no more than four people in the whole Council."
- U.S. is not ready to abandon the expansion of the alliance - even at the expense of their own interests - lamenting scientist.

When Will the People in America wake up? The idiots in the White House is screwed our country.
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evgeny
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:38 am    Post subject: Re: US could walk all over Russia... Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Sarah Peylin victory in Iraq

Alaska Governor Sarah Peylin in an interview with CBS telekanalau tried to justify increasing American troops in Afghanistan. As an argument it has that same line has helped Washington win in Iraq. "

News of the sincere faith, the Republican candidate for vice president in the victory of American troops there and then overflew the local media. This was not the first unsuccessful interview Pelin, which did not fail to write a publication Washington Post. The newspaper notes that Peylin allowed such a serious lapse in the third interview after only a month after the agreed to naparnitsey Senator John McCain in the elections.

Such statements beginning to affect the ratings candidate for the vice-presidents. The survey public opinion, conducted this week by order of NBC and Wall Street Journal, showed that 57% of Americans believe Sarah Peylin illiterate in the field of foreign relations. Most of the respondents would not risk to power in the hands of Rights, which has no expertise in the area of defense policy.
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evgeny
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:43 am    Post subject: Re: US could walk all over Russia... Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Nickel wrote:
evgeny wrote:
New version

Hey, isn't that the pot lid that VC guy was holding his guts in with in Apocalypse Now? Smile

No, This is Fedor Emelianenko the best MMA fighter in the world. His nick name "The Last Emperor." Search Google (His nick name Last emperor) or (Fedor Emelianenko).


Last edited by evgeny on Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Nickel
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:10 pm    Post subject: Re: US could walk all over Russia... Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

evgeny wrote:
Nickel wrote:
evgeny wrote:
New version



Hey, isn't that the pot lid that VC guy was holding his guts in with in Apocalypse Now? Smile


No, This is Fedor Emelianenko the best MMA fighter in the world.


Okay, but that's still the pot lid from Apocalypse Now. Smile
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